Will Apple release a 'Thunderbolt 2' Display with the new Mac Pro?

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by motegi, Dec 15, 2013.

  1. motegi macrumors regular

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    #1
    I feel that they won't. Here's why:

    It seems to me that the current Thunderbolt display is geared heavily towards MacBook owners, rather than a pro user who would be purchasing a new Mac Pro.

    With their heavy marketing slant on '4K', it seems unlikely they will try to offer a new non-4K display to pair with the nMP. Coupled to this the potential high price and low uptake by 90% of Apple consumers of a new Apple 4K display, they may leave the creation of 4K monitors in the hands of other manufacturers.

    That said, the fact that they could sell a lot of TB2 displays to not only nMP buyers, but also to future buyers of TB2-equipped MacBooks, might signal a good chance to make the switch to TB2 on the Apple Thunderbolt Display and maybe add that new 75% reduction in reflectivity as they did on the new iMac too.

    Feel free to prove me wrong though - I am in the market for a new 27" display to go with my 6-core nMP!
     
  2. goMac macrumors 603

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    #2
    Yes. They need to update the Thunderbolt display with Thunderbolt 2 daisy chaining and USB3, both of which are important for desktop users and laptop users. And USB3 will probably require Thunderbolt 2.
     
  3. NewbieCanada macrumors 68030

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    #3
    Dell has a $1000 4K display coming out soon. If Dell can do it, Apple can do it.

    It may not come out the same day, but I'm pretty sure we'll see one in the next few months.
     
  4. Mr. Retrofire macrumors 601

    Mr. Retrofire

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    #4
    Six TB2 ports! Nearly non-existent TB2 peripherals!
    =
    Apple TB2 Display

    ;-)

    These two sentences in one text block sound “suspicious”. It sounds like they talk about a new Mac Pro and a new TB2 display.

    Another reason for a new TB2 display is, that TB2 supports the bandwidth, which is necessary for multiple USB 3.0 and/or Ethernet ports. That's just not possible with a TB1 connection.
     
  5. VirtualRain macrumors 603

    VirtualRain

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    #5
    Historically, the last three Apple displays (24" then 27" then 27" TB) all came with ridiculously short cables (including MagSafe) and we're obviously designed for connecting to a MacBook. Add to that, the fact the TB display never got an update to support USB3 and, I think we can conclude that their displays are amongst their lowest priorities for their laptop users, and completely ignored for Mac Pro users.

    There was also a front page story last week about Apple briefly selling the Sharp 4K display on their European store website until it was pulled later that day. So that pretty much killed any hopes of a forthcoming 4K display from Apple.

    Unfortunately, both of these would indicate that Apple will not be releasing a new display alongside the nMP.
     
  6. motegi thread starter macrumors regular

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    #6
    Looks like that NEC PA272W has my name on it!
     
  7. seveej macrumors 6502a

    seveej

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    #7
    Ditto. Here's my "why":

    - Apple does not produce printers, but they nevertheless offer good deals on them when buying a mac. I can see Apple striking a deal with 4K-display manufacturers in order for their displays to be on the de-facto recommended-list for nMP buyers.

    - Apple, under the operative guidance of Tim Cook, adopted a highly successful sourcing strategy, which nevertheless assumes that whatever product was to have the Apple brand, must be produced in huge amounts. Until 4K displays become an option (technically and price-wise) for buyers of other apple gear (I'm thinking of rMBP's), those numbers will not be reached.

    - if (or more correctly, when) the iMac gets a 4K display, the Apple 4K -display becomes an option.

    RGDS,
     
  8. cs02rm0 macrumors member

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    Jul 31, 2013
    #8
    Although they clearly could if Dell can, I don't see why they would've fleetingly put the Sharp up for sale if they were about to release a competitor product. Unfortunately.

    I'd be surprised if we've seen the last of them though.
     
  9. sboerup macrumors 6502

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    Mar 8, 2009
    #9
    I would guess that we'll see an updated TB2 display before a 4k display. They really should update it to be as thin as the imac (all the way through) with the new anti-glare coatings, and TB2 compatible. Thats all they need to do and people will buy it.

    a 4k display, I bet we'll see something competitive to the Dell 32" announcement. It could be likely that they are sourcing it from the same supplier and Dell is trying to make an early move on it before Apple unveils theirs.
     
  10. deconstruct60 macrumors 604

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    #10
    The Mac Pro doesn't need Apple for 4K monitors to appear on the market. They are already here by a couple of vendors. The number of the market will probably at least double after CES 2014 in a several weeks. There are multiple solutions out there during the vast bulk of the time this version the Mac Pro will be shipping (2014 and perhaps a bit into 2015).

    The number of TB docking stations displays on the market? One. By one vendor.

    If Apple doesn't do an improved TB 'display' then at this point of TB evolution/adoption nobody else is going to do one either. There is a huge market gap on is a more affordable TB 'display'. Either 21.5" ( so Apple can leverage iMac volumes to contain the price ) or something different than simply just a $999 solitary option. Like the iMac and even previous generations when Apple was actually in the display business there is more than one, and only one, screen size in a viable display market.


    This high price, low update is already present on the TB 'display' without weaving in anything 4K about it.

    Since it is a docking station, if not selling a very sizable fraction to Mac laptop users then there is something grossly wrong with the product. The Mac Pro sales should be in the class of "gravy on top" sales.

    As long as there is a fixed length connector and a MagSafe power source on it, that a huge stretch to label this highly targeted at the Mac Pro or that the Mac Pro is a design major focus.

    The drop in USB sockets and elimination of Firewire is going to mean that some Mac Pro buyers are going to need the additional sockets also along with a new display. The uptake probably will be substantive relative to TB 'display' unit sales so far, but it not particularly the core market.


    Apple introduced the TB 'display' many months after the initial set of TB Macs. It is somewhat likely that the same thing will happen here too. Volume TB v2 controller availability isn't until 2014. In addition to the reduced glare design from the iMac, the new update will likely need to pick up the discrete USB 3.0 solution from the Mac Pro.

    The vast majority of Mac Pros designs are not going to be purchased in the first 2-3 months anyway. 2-3 months from now there will be a much bigger base of TB v2 devices looking for solutions (after MBP and MP sales have had chance to build some volume). Additionally, more than likely also is that the vast majority of early Mac Pro 2013 adopters already have displays.
     
  11. DisMyMac macrumors 65816

    DisMyMac

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    Sep 30, 2009
    #11
    The Pro's lack of HDMI 2.0 makes me think they will do a lame Display update (like the Pro last year), meaning USB3 and TB2 ports but no 4K or other changes.
     
  12. deconstruct60 macrumors 604

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    Mar 10, 2009
    #12
    Non existent? TB v1 works with TB v2. TB v2 isn't even shipping in volume yet. What folks want? Lots of "demo and not shipping" items?

    In terms what can plug in and it works..........


    Three different tabs of products.

    http://www.sonnettech.com/product/thunderbolt/index.html

    Different groups of products

    http://www.attotech.com/products/family.php?id=15

    Big ones

    http://www.areca.com.tw/products/thunderbolt.htm

    http://www.netstor.com.tw/_03/products_Thunderbolt_TB.htm

    Small ones

    http://www.aja.com/en/products/t-tap

    Multiple ones of similar product solution.

    http://www.caldigit.com/thunderboltstation/

    http://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-F4U055/

    http://www.matrox.com/docking_station/en/ds1/





    There is some missing stuff like a "legacy kitchen sink" box.

    http://www.newertech.com/products/ministackmax.php

    And a more affordable JBOD box; shown but never shipped.
    http://www.anandtech.com/show/5956/qnaps-jtb400-a-byod-4bay-thunderbolt-enclosure


    [ shipped but at high price for simply port multiplication. http://www.datoptic.com/ec/thunderbolt-jbod-5x-sataiii-enclosure-for-mac-windows.html ]








    For current resolutions the TB v2 doesn't really add all that much. The current set of sockets aren't going to press TB v1 to the extreme. With 6 TB v2 sockets you do not have to plug all the TB devices into a single TB daisy chain. So the fact that the TB v1 display's chain is limited to v1 speed from that device down farther isn't particularly a large constraint.




    No they don't. That sentences point to the fact that simply having DisplayPort v1.2 gets to 4K (and 60Hz) land. It is the backward protocol compatiblity mode that can deliver 4K. TB v2 allows one to push 4K farther away from the box, but there are not many good reasons to do that in most contexts. Encoding 4K ( dual streams) into thunderbolt protocol and pumping that downstream basically kills off the majority of the availble bandwidth. Can actually keep the TB v2 is re-segrate the 4K video to some non Thunderbolt data stream. The 6 ports of the Mac Pro mean not particularly scarificing much if do so. For example, devoting three ports to DP v1.2 only still leaves you with 1 more TB port than any other system other there.




    LOL. TB v1 supports multiple USB 3.0 ports. Multiport USB 3.0 controllers only take 1x PCI-e v2 worth of bandwidth. Ditto Ethernet.

    TB v2 supports multiple ports of USB 3.1 (which no one even has now).
     
  13. Einz macrumors regular

    Einz

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    #13
    Apple will have a TB2 4K display when the nMP is released tomorrow. Can anyone pictured a Mac Pro hooked up a display that's not Apple in an Apple store?
     
  14. puckhead193 macrumors G3

    puckhead193

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    #14
    I hope so, I don't know about the 4K update, I think it will just be TB2 and USB 3.0 Maybe a spec bump somewhere. (brightness/refresh rate etc)
     
  15. Mr. Retrofire macrumors 601

    Mr. Retrofire

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    #15
    Really? Can you show me some TB1 displays with three or more USB 3.0 ports?

    The new Thunderbolt display has 3 USB 3.0 ports (the 4th for the FaceTime HD camera). Or do you think it has 3 USB 2.0 ports, like the old Thunderbolt display?

    3 ports * 5 GBit/s = 15 GBit/s

    and that's only the USB 3.0 part of the display...

    ----------

    No, i can't. :)
     
  16. eladnova macrumors member

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    Aug 31, 2012
    #16
    I can't imagine that either. But it's likely that they'll just display them with the current gen of TB displays.
    Seriously hoping this is not the case though:)
     
  17. deconstruct60 macrumors 604

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    Mar 10, 2009
    #17
    USB ports bandwidths are not not neccesarily additive. They are limited by the controller. The vast majority of USB 3.0 discrete controllers have 1x PCI-e v2 links.


    "... System I/F: PCIe Gen2 x 1 Lane ... "
    http://am.renesas.com/products/soc/usb_assp/product/upd720201/index.jsp

    " PCI Express Gen II x1 "
    http://www.frescologic.com/products_show.php?ms=2&ps=5

    etc. etc. etc.


    Some of the integrated may manage slightly more but all of those chipsets are inappropriate for a TB peripheral since they are all pragmatically mated to an Intel CPU package for use.
     
  18. goMac macrumors 603

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    #18
    I would guess this is for several reasons:
    - We may not see a TB2 display until next year. (The first G5s launched with the old plastic Cinema Displays with USB1, but the Cinema Displays were updated to match a few months later.)
    - Even if Apple launches a TB2 display at 4k, it won't be targeted towards video editors. Video editors have very strict demands for color accuracy and non-glossyness for video monitors. It's not uncommon to see video editors with a PC display, and a display specifically targeted as a video monitor that is highly accurate. My impression of the Sharp 4k display is it's aimed at that use.
     
  19. VirtualRain macrumors 603

    VirtualRain

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    #19
    Agreed... I believe Apple will target a TB2 display more at MacBook Pro customers as they did with the last couple models... which means they will need to price it around $1000 which will mean compromise.
     
  20. goMac macrumors 603

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    #20
    I think the Apple 4k display will be intended and pros and consumers who want Retina on an external display. It weirds me out to be working on retina on my laptop display, plug it in to a Thunderbolt display, and then all my retina is gone. :)
     

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