GimmeSlack12 said:
They don't need to be directed to the Apple Store to buy Office or VirtualPC either, but both Microsoft products are sold there.
Be careful with the use of the word "never."
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Will Apple Stores sell Windows XP/Vista?
- Thread starter princealfie
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
They don't need to be directed to the Apple Store to buy Office or VirtualPC either, but both Microsoft products are sold there.
Be careful with the use of the word "never."
IJ Reilly said:
HEY IJ
nice to see you here...while i don't always agree with your political views, i respect you for your sound arguments...you have to realize you are trying to argue against people who are like the ones who said "never" to os x on intel and have such short memories and small minds that they have to have steve jobs think for them
PS - and let's say even if they don't have small minds, and are even geniuses for that matter, or are excellent in their logic, they certainly don't bring it to the table in the tired, "i am unique and i hate microsoft" argument
apple inc had plenty of opportunities to seize the biggest chunk of the industry and they simply failed by believing their own hype...others less creative used logic and common sense and succeeded where apple inc should have...oh well, it's just history
mojohanna said:
actually, the end of the world would be more likely if barry bonds goes to the american league and plays for the angels or A's, or the yankadoodles
GimmeSlack12 said:
Up until recently, Apple didn't sell computers that could (natively) run Windows, so there was no reason to offer it. Now that this has changed, and Apple is beginning to market and support the dual-boot features of Intel-based Macs, Apple has an incentive to stock Windows on their shelves, based upon the selling point that Macs can natively run either operating system.
If you were a business owner trying to market your product's features, one of which requires an additional component to function, would you rather:
1. Direct your customer to the store across the street to purchase that component
2. Direct your customer to the shelf where you stock that component yourself
A smart businessperson would do the latter.
Windows XP being sold in an Apple store? Whatever.
Companies that want to run Macs and install Windows already know where to go to get a copy. They're not going to go, "You don't sell Windows XP here?!? Well, screw you! I'm taking my business to Dell." It's not like there's an Apple store that doesn't have a store that sells XP near it. Hell! Even my one stop shopping place has a home electronics section that sells XP.
As for the average consumer, if they want to buy Windows XP to install on a Mac chances are they'll need help or know how to do it themselves. Which leads me to my main point...
What I think WILL happen is that business will increase for other Mac retailers. They could offer a service where they get Windows XP up and running for you on your Mac and charge whatever price they think is reasonable.
They'd buy in volume and make some money off of it along with charging for an hour of installation. Good money if you ask me.
I plan on helping dual-boot for all my PC friends who are now going to switch to a Mac. One of the worries they had was that if their medical school has software that can't run on Mac, they'd fall behind. With this, there's no worries!
Also, I would charge them if I wasn't such a nice guy.
You're working on the assumption that Apple lives and dies on the performance of their Apple stores. I've read an article that states that Apple uses the Apple store as advertising more than sales. If they happen to sell things, all the better but it's not going to cause Apple to come crashing down.
Apple doesn't care if someone goes to Best Buy and picks up an iPod so why should they worry if someone picks up Windows XP there? Granted, Apple makes no money off of XP in Best Buy but do you really think Apple is that strapped for cash?
Companies that want to run Macs and install Windows already know where to go to get a copy. They're not going to go, "You don't sell Windows XP here?!? Well, screw you! I'm taking my business to Dell." It's not like there's an Apple store that doesn't have a store that sells XP near it. Hell! Even my one stop shopping place has a home electronics section that sells XP.
As for the average consumer, if they want to buy Windows XP to install on a Mac chances are they'll need help or know how to do it themselves. Which leads me to my main point...
What I think WILL happen is that business will increase for other Mac retailers. They could offer a service where they get Windows XP up and running for you on your Mac and charge whatever price they think is reasonable.
They'd buy in volume and make some money off of it along with charging for an hour of installation. Good money if you ask me.
I plan on helping dual-boot for all my PC friends who are now going to switch to a Mac. One of the worries they had was that if their medical school has software that can't run on Mac, they'd fall behind. With this, there's no worries!
Also, I would charge them if I wasn't such a nice guy.
aquajet said:
You're working on the assumption that Apple lives and dies on the performance of their Apple stores. I've read an article that states that Apple uses the Apple store as advertising more than sales. If they happen to sell things, all the better but it's not going to cause Apple to come crashing down.
Apple doesn't care if someone goes to Best Buy and picks up an iPod so why should they worry if someone picks up Windows XP there? Granted, Apple makes no money off of XP in Best Buy but do you really think Apple is that strapped for cash?
This would also defeat the Trojan Horse aspect...if the Macs continue to only run OSX out of the box, and the Windows install requires another purchase and a process for the end-user to go through...many will never do ityg17 said:
More switcher purchases because Macs can run Windows, but once they start using OS X they won't bother installing Windows. Apple should start including a migration assistant for Windows, if people can get their data off their old PCs when they switch, it's even less likely they'd mess with installing Windows on their new Macs.
suntzu said:
No, I'm working on the assumption that Steve Jobs is a smart businessman. If Apple's going down the path of marketing their machines as capable of running Mac OS and Windows, then it makes perfect business sense to offer their customers copies of Windows to install on their Macs.
It's not a matter of cash or profits, but rather a matter of offering the highest level of service for their customers. This is good business.
Do you have a link to this article?
I don't believe they will, and here is why:
This is not a dollars-and-cents business decision, in my opinion. This is completely about image. If Apple sells Microsoft Windows in their store, they're essentially saying:
Look, we're buddy-buddy! One and the same. We're merging. It's a marriage of Mac OS and Windows. We're all together now. Together. Where your Windows viruses can destroy your Mac documents! Forget all those years of rivalry and what you saw on "Pirates of Silicon Valley" -- we're friends! GOOD friends. Bill comes over and ****s my sister on the weekends, et cetera et cetera ad nauseum.
It's selling out (in image, at least) all Mac zealots. It clotheslines the idea that OS X and the software constructed for it is sufficient for 90% of all users. It anally rapes the intelligent shopper's perception of the company's confidence in its product! Imagine going into Taco Bell and seeing a new Burrito Exquisito on the menu. They've pulled out all the stops advertising for this thing: Celebrity testimonials, flashing lights, talking dogs, et cetera. In fine print: "also comes with 1 hard taco, 1 soft taco, and 1 burrito of your choice, of equal or lesser value." And when you ask why, they say "well, you might not actually like it, so here's a bunch of stuff that you'll probably like."
It's ridiculous. It makes little (if any) sense. Why in the hell would you ask someone to buy a product that they are ostensibly embittered with, infuriated with, that they have supposedly lost work and hours of productivity to? When you go to the Hospital, do they have plates full of rat poison for you to snort?
I honestly can't buy this idea. There are too many scenarios in which Apple loses. And it wins how? By robbing Circuit City of that $5/unit? By fulfilling some imaginary agreement? ****, Apple doesn't sell Linux or NetBSD! I am printing on a printer that works with OS X, but is not sold in an Apple store!
All in all, it just doesn't make sense to me. Not because of dollars-and-cents directly, but because of how it would affect Apple's image. I can see them licensing Microsoft's APIs and making a better DarWINE, but I can't see them selling a packaged vanilla Windows OS. It'd blow my freaking mind. And if it happens, I will personally stand on IJ Reilly's shoulders and publicly eat my own pancreas.
This is not a dollars-and-cents business decision, in my opinion. This is completely about image. If Apple sells Microsoft Windows in their store, they're essentially saying:
Look, we're buddy-buddy! One and the same. We're merging. It's a marriage of Mac OS and Windows. We're all together now. Together. Where your Windows viruses can destroy your Mac documents! Forget all those years of rivalry and what you saw on "Pirates of Silicon Valley" -- we're friends! GOOD friends. Bill comes over and ****s my sister on the weekends, et cetera et cetera ad nauseum.
It's selling out (in image, at least) all Mac zealots. It clotheslines the idea that OS X and the software constructed for it is sufficient for 90% of all users. It anally rapes the intelligent shopper's perception of the company's confidence in its product! Imagine going into Taco Bell and seeing a new Burrito Exquisito on the menu. They've pulled out all the stops advertising for this thing: Celebrity testimonials, flashing lights, talking dogs, et cetera. In fine print: "also comes with 1 hard taco, 1 soft taco, and 1 burrito of your choice, of equal or lesser value." And when you ask why, they say "well, you might not actually like it, so here's a bunch of stuff that you'll probably like."
It's ridiculous. It makes little (if any) sense. Why in the hell would you ask someone to buy a product that they are ostensibly embittered with, infuriated with, that they have supposedly lost work and hours of productivity to? When you go to the Hospital, do they have plates full of rat poison for you to snort?
I honestly can't buy this idea. There are too many scenarios in which Apple loses. And it wins how? By robbing Circuit City of that $5/unit? By fulfilling some imaginary agreement? ****, Apple doesn't sell Linux or NetBSD! I am printing on a printer that works with OS X, but is not sold in an Apple store!
All in all, it just doesn't make sense to me. Not because of dollars-and-cents directly, but because of how it would affect Apple's image. I can see them licensing Microsoft's APIs and making a better DarWINE, but I can't see them selling a packaged vanilla Windows OS. It'd blow my freaking mind. And if it happens, I will personally stand on IJ Reilly's shoulders and publicly eat my own pancreas.
aquajet said:
Actually, it's not so perfect and may end up hurting Apple but doing so. People are going to assume that since Apple is selling XP, they're providing some level of support for the OS when they're not. When the customer had a problem, who do they call?
If they call Apple, they'll say that they only support BootCamp and their drivers and not Windows XP. So they call Microsoft and then Microsoft tells them that they're getting problems because they're running Windows on a Mac and that they need to call the hardware maker (Apple). The customer gets the run around. They expect crap service from Microsoft but when Apple tells them "not our problem", how are they going to feel? It'll hurt Apple.
aquajet said:
But this isn't high quality service. If Apple sells XP then basically what it's saying to its customers is "buy this bad software and don't expect any help from us on it." High quality of service would be offering XP support. But this is extremely costly.
aquajet said:
Business Week
Not the article I read but it has the portion that talks about it.
I think that I do like sticking to mac os x for the most part... but windows xp is a necessity due to some graphic... hmm not violence hehehe...
Does anyone remember if Apple supplied DOS or Windows 3.11 with those with DOS compatibility cards equipped Power Macs (6100 for instance)?
yg17 said:
Apple and Microsoft aren't really true competitors. Apple is mainly a hardware company. Microsoft makes software. Apple's competitors are Dell, HP, Gateway, Toshiba, IBM Lenovo, Sony, etc. etc. as well as Creative, Philips, Samsung and the thousands of other MP3 player manufacturers out there.
princealfie said:
.... To XP, Vista and beyond
1st the Intel CPU, now 'APPLE' releases a simple solution to run XP.
The Mini just became one of the best small silent XP machines available.
Those who buy the Mini for its size and want to run windows are not going to switch to OS X. Software delvelopers are going to choose XP over OS-X if pressed, as anyone can run XP now with a Mac.
It's not a bad thing for Apple, just look at the stock reaction. As long as Apple can lead with unique hardware...
JayMak said:
which they have, especially since the return of steve jobs
for his first few years of debuts, apple did design great looking and sturdy hardware, but it does seem they have slacked on some products in hardware quality though in the last few years...but the price did come way down at the same time bringing in more customers who would have overlooked the mac due to price
apple, like most companies that make computers, outsource for many components that go inside computers and there isn't actually an apple computer factory in cupertino that makes everything from scratch
apple's big plus has been their own operating system which worked well with their hardware vs microsoft windows with one of thousands of pc companies' hardware
at least, we are talking about mactels using xp vs. using windows 95
suntzu said:
The same is true for any retail sale of Windows. Just because you buy your copy of Windows from Wal-Mart, doesn't mean you're going to expect Wal-Mart to support it, right? And if Microsoft's customer support stinks, this reflects badly on Microsoft, not Apple.
If Apple is serious about dual-booting, then they will eventually have to offer complete dual-boot solutions to customers walking into Apple stores asking about them. If not, these customers will likely as not walk right back out of the store without a Mac under their arms.
suntzu said:
It's no different than any other third-party product that Apple sells. Nobody expects Apple to provide technical support for the myriad of choices offered. Windows XP is no different. If there's a problem, then it's Microsoft's duty to support the customer.
The only thing Apple guarantees is that Microsoft Windows will install on their computers. Outside of this, if something malfuctions within Windows, then it's up to Microsoft to provide support. If a third-party application used under Windows malfuctions, then it's up to that vendor to support their product.
And totally unrealistic, if not impossible. Every manufacturer is responsible for providing support for their own product.
Remember -- Apple has been perfectly willing to tout the virtues of other products such as Adobe's Photoshop and Microsoft's Office, both of which Apple offers in their retail and online stores, along with direct competitor's products, such as the Bose SoundDock.
aquajet said:
here's what a mac zealot would say
:SURE APPLE SENDS A LIMO THAT TAKES YOU TO THE AIRPORT AND WILL FLY YOU TO THE DOORSTEP OF ANY COMPANY BUT MICROSOFT
GEEZ, DIDN'T YOU KNOW THAT
IT'S SO THE MAC WAY