Will iCloud keep apps in sync perfectly??

[jmmo20]

Lol. Nice to see you trying to justify your scam. That's not the reason 5 devices can be synced, it's for individuals who have multiple devices, a few of my friends have a desktop PC, laptop, iPhone and iPad, that's why they allow up to 5 devices.

You're no different to people that illegally download films.

Using family as an excuse to justify borderline piracy is moronic. When I was younger we had 3 game boys (myself, brother and mum) and we had to get individual games if we wanted to play at the same time. Even now, if you want to run purchased software on more than 1 machine you need to pay for each. So there's no justification for it.

Well you know what? It's up to Apple and for Apple it's alright. They have no intention to stop this kind of "household Apple id share". The same way that before the Mac App Store you could only install OSX in one computer, now with Lion you can install it in up to 5 computers.

I paid for the app. period.

This is nothing like downloading movies or apps from torrent sites or whatever, and comparing me with a guy that downloads movies, ilegally, over the internet quite offends me indeed.
You are not a developer. If you were, you'd knew Apple guidelines.

Yeah but obviously you know better.


Ps. you're wrong with your device count.
you can have 5 computers authorised, and each can have 5 devices associated to it. So your friends would need to be super rich to have 5 computers in their home plus 25 idevices to max out the device limit.
What happens in the "real world" is that in my house we have 3 macs. One connected to the TV, my MBP that syncs 2 iphones and an ipad, and my partner's MB that syncs one iphone.

 

[CmdrThor]

Lol. Nice to see you trying to justify your scam. That's not the reason 5 devices can be synced, it's for individuals who have multiple devices, a few of my friends have a desktop PC, laptop, iPhone and iPad, that's why they allow up to 5 devices.

You're no different to people that illegally download films.

Using family as an excuse to justify borderline piracy is moronic. When I was younger we had 3 game boys (myself, brother and mum) and we had to get individual games if we wanted to play at the same time. Even now, if you want to run purchased software on more than 1 machine you need to pay for each. So there's no justification for it.

Hang on there buddy. Although sharing an Apple ID is of course against the terms and conditions, the basic premise of sharing apps within a family is certainly not piracy. Apple has set up Home Sharing (http://support.apple.com/kb/ht3819) specifically to allow this kind of behavior. So comparing it to pirating movies is clearly wrong.

The proper method of sharing apps, music bought on iTunes, etc is for each person to have their own Apple ID, then use a single Apple ID to link all of the computers that people sync with under Home Sharing. Any purchases get synced and can be copied to additional devices within the limit.

 

[jmmo20]

Hang on there buddy. Although sharing an Apple ID is of course against the terms and conditions, the basic premise of sharing apps within a family is certainly not piracy. Apple has set up Home Sharing (http://support.apple.com/kb/ht3819) specifically to allow this kind of behavior. So comparing it to pirating movies is clearly wrong.

The proper method of sharing apps, music bought on iTunes, etc is for each person to have their own Apple ID, then use a single Apple ID to link all of the computers that people sync with under Home Sharing. Any purchases get synced and can be copied to additional devices within the limit.

Thank you, I hadn't thought about that.
However, even if you use Home sharing, each mac needs to be authorised for the other apple Id's used for purchasing apps..

In fact my home scenario is closer to what you describe. I have my own apple ID for purchasing app, and so does my partner. Only when we are interested in something the other one has previously bought, we use home sharing or just log in the other one's account and re-download. We do use home sharing all the time to transfer music.

 

[shotts56]

Lol. Nice to see you trying to justify your scam. That's not the reason 5 devices can be synced, it's for individuals who have multiple devices, a few of my friends have a desktop PC, laptop, iPhone and iPad, that's why they allow up to 5 devices.

You're no different to people that illegally download films.

Using family as an excuse to justify borderline piracy is moronic. When I was younger we had 3 game boys (myself, brother and mum) and we had to get individual games if we wanted to play at the same time. Even now, if you want to run purchased software on more than 1 machine you need to pay for each. So there's no justification for it.

OK smarty pants. My wee girl is 6, you are not allowed to have an iTunes account until you are 13. So how exactly is she supposed to get games on her iPod if your premise is correct ?

Apple set up Home Sharing for a reason. Comparing it to piracy is lunacy.

 

[shandyman]

Well you know what? It's up to Apple and for Apple it's alright. They have no intention to stop this kind of "household Apple id share". The same way that before the Mac App Store you could only install OSX in one computer, now with Lion you can install it in up to 5 computers.

I paid for the app. period.

This is nothing like downloading movies or apps from torrent sites or whatever, and comparing me with a guy that downloads movies, ilegally, over the internet quite offends me indeed.
You are not a developer. If you were, you'd knew Apple guidelines.

Yeah but obviously you know better.


Ps. you're wrong with your device count.
you can have 5 computers authorised, and each can have 5 devices associated to it. So your friends would need to be super rich to have 5 computers in their home plus 25 idevices to max out the device limit.
What happens in the "real world" is that in my house we have 3 macs. One connected to the TV, my MBP that syncs 2 iphones and an ipad, and my partner's MB that syncs one iphone.

Apple specifically state in the T&C's that and apple ID is for individuals, not families or couples.

I think You lot have a nice misinterpretation of the use of home sharing, since, in the T&C's, the Apple ID is specifically for an individual and the Apple ID is specifically not to be shared with others, home sharing is intended for individuals to access their media from one device to another, like someone has a desktop in one room and an iOS device or laptop access music to stream or whatnot.

Show me where Apple say or show that an Apple ID can be shared amongst family and I'll change my mind.

I know many people that have a desktop, a personal laptop, then a work laptop and an iPhone or iPod. Apple obviously picked 5 as its a round number.

Yes you paid for an app for your use only, letting oters have it, family or not, Is still borderline piracy, no different to buying office or some other software and letting someone else use it. You're just screwing over hard working developers and artists by doing this. In my house my other half has her own Apple ID seperate to mine, we buy our own apps separately, it's no issue.

 

[jmmo20]

Apple specifically state in the T&C's that and apple ID is for individuals, not families or couples.

I think You lot have a nice misinterpretation of the use of home sharing, since, in the T&C's, the Apple ID is specifically for an individual and the Apple ID is specifically not to be shared with others, home sharing is intended for individuals to access their media from one device to another, like someone has a desktop in one room and an iOS device or laptop access music to stream or whatnot.

Show me where Apple say or show that an Apple ID can be shared amongst family and I'll change my mind.

I know many people that have a desktop, a personal laptop, then a work laptop and an iPhone or iPod. Apple obviously picked 5 as its a round number.

Yes you paid for an app for your use only, letting oters have it, family or not, Is still borderline piracy, no different to buying office or some other software and letting someone else use it. You're just screwing over hard working developers and artists by doing this. In my house my other half has her own Apple ID seperate to mine, we buy our own apps separately, it's no issue.

Please stop right there and go to http://support.apple.com/kb/ht3819

as you can see in the pictures, different family members are listed in that particular Home sharing setup (Don and Chris, in the first picture). It doesn't say "my own laptop + my own computer + my own mac server". IT lists different family members under the same roof, using home sharing.

I'd ask you to stop calling me a pirate. Borderline or not.

 

[CmdrThor]

Show me where Apple say or show that an Apple ID can be shared amongst family and I'll change my mind.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3819

Home Sharing enables you to stream or transfer music, movies, TV shows, apps, and more among up to five authorized computers in your household.

Also, from http://www.apple.com/legal/itunes/us/terms.html#SERVICE

B. ITUNES STORE TERMS AND CONDITIONS

USAGE RULES

(iii) You shall be able to store iTunes Products from up to five different Accounts at a time on compatible devices, provided that each iPhone may sync ringtone iTunes Products with only a single iTunes-authorized device at a time, and syncing an iPhone with a different iTunes-authorized device will cause ringtone iTunes Products stored on that iPhone to be erased.

 

[shandyman]

Please stop right there and go to http://support.apple.com/kb/ht3819

as you can see in the pictures, different family members are listed in that particular Home sharing setup (Don and Chris, in the first picture). It doesn't say "my own laptop + my own computer + my own mac server". IT lists different family members under the same roof, using home sharing.

I'd ask you to stop calling me a pirate. Borderline or not.

Home sharing music and video is not really the same as home sharing apps tho. To update them you need the apple ID that bought them, which means sharing the Apple ID which is against the T&Cs.

 

[shandyman]

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3819

Home Sharing enables you to stream or transfer music, movies, TV shows, apps, and more among up to five authorized computers in your household.

Also, from http://www.apple.com/legal/itunes/us/terms.html#SERVICE

B. ITUNES STORE TERMS AND CONDITIONS

USAGE RULES

(iii) You shall be able to store iTunes Products from up to five different Accounts at a time on compatible devices, provided that each iPhone may sync ringtone iTunes Products with only a single iTunes-authorized device at a time, and syncing an iPhone with a different iTunes-authorized device will cause ringtone iTunes Products stored on that iPhone to be erased.

That doesn't say you can share your apple ID tho. If you read the rest of that, it says no sharing apple ID and apple ID is for individuals.

 

[CmdrThor]

Also read the following and note the distinction between personal use and commercial/education. The person use allows you to use the app store products on all of the devices you own or control. For businesses it must be EITHER multiple computers/devices and a single user (employee's iPhone, iPad, etc) or multiple users and a single device (5 iPads set up for common use by many users would have to have a total of 5 copies of each app purchased).

APP STORE PRODUCT USAGE RULES

(i) You may download and sync an App Store Product for personal, noncommercial use on any iOS Device you own or control.

(ii) If you are a commercial enterprise or educational institution, you may download and sync an App Store Product for use by either (a) a single individual on one or more iOS Devices used by that individual that you own or control or (b) multiple individuals, on a single shared iOS Device you own or control. For example, a single employee may use an App Store Product on both the employee's iPhone and iPad, or multiple students may serially use an App Store Product on a single iPad located at a resource center or library. For the sake of clarity, each iOS Device used serially by multiple users requires a separate license.

(iii) You shall be able to store App Store Products from up to five different Accounts at a time on a compatible iOS Device.

and

LICENSED APPLICATION END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT

a. Scope of License: This license granted to you for the Licensed Application by Licensor is limited to a nontransferable license to use the Licensed Application on any Apple-branded products running iOS (including but not limited to iPad, iPhone, and iPod touch) (“iOS Devices”) or Mac OS X (“Mac Computers”), as applicable (collectively, “Apple Device(s)”) that you own or control and as permitted by the usage rules set forth in the Mac App Store, App Store and iBookstore Terms and Conditions (the “Usage Rules”). This license does not allow you to use the Licensed Application on any Apple Device that you do not own or control, and except as provided in the Usage Rules, you may not distribute or make the Licensed Application available over a network where it could be used by multiple devices at the same time. You may not rent, lease, lend, sell, transfer redistribute, or sublicense the Licensed Application and, if you sell your Mac Computer or iOS Device to a third party, you must remove the Licensed Application from the Mac Computer or iOS Device before doing so. You may not copy (except as expressly permitted by this license and the Usage Rules), decompile, reverse-engineer, disassemble, attempt to derive the source code of, modify, or create derivative works of the Licensed Application, any updates, or any part thereof (except as and only to the extent that any foregoing restriction is prohibited by applicable law or to the extent as may be permitted by the licensing terms governing use of any open-sourced components included with the Licensed Application). Any attempt to do so is a violation of the rights of the Licensor and its licensors. If you breach this restriction, you may be subject to prosecution and damages.

 

[jmmo20]

Home sharing music and video is not really the same as home sharing apps tho. To update them you need the apple ID that bought them, which means sharing the Apple ID which is against the T&Cs.

no you don't. Using home sharing, updated apps and new music is automatically sync'd to other computers under the same apple ID, should you choose to do so (I personally don't like that).

you can ask "dad" to update Angry birds, then gather that update, using Apple's own home sharing.

 

[CmdrThor]

Hang on there buddy. Although sharing an Apple ID is of course against the terms and conditions, the basic premise of sharing apps within a family is certainly not piracy. Apple has set up Home Sharing (http://support.apple.com/kb/ht3819) specifically to allow this kind of behavior. So comparing it to pirating movies is clearly wrong.

The proper method of sharing apps, music bought on iTunes, etc is for each person to have their own Apple ID, then use a single Apple ID to link all of the computers that people sync with under Home Sharing. Any purchases get synced and can be copied to additional devices within the limit.

That doesn't say you can share your apple ID tho. If you read the rest of that, it says no sharing apple ID and apple ID is for individuals.

As you can clearly see, I agree that sharing Apple IDs is against the rules. I am arguing that sharing the apps is not, therefore it is not piracy. Those who share Apple IDs are doing it the wrong way, the proper way is to use Home Sharing. Also see the part that says you can have content from up to FIVE ACCOUNTS (that is Apple IDs) on each device. That seems to indicate my wife could log into my iPhone with her account and install an App, but I could not just permanently use her Apple ID. Although the easiest way to do it would just be to use Home Sharing and copy that to my laptop, then sync with my device.

 

[shandyman]

Those who share Apple IDs are doing it the wrong way, the proper way is to use Home Sharing. Also see the part that says you can have content from up to FIVE ACCOUNTS (that is Apple IDs) on each device. That seems to indicate my wife could log into my iPhone with her account and install an App, but I could not just permanently use her Apple ID. Although the easiest way to do it would just be to use Home Sharing and copy that to my laptop, then sync with my device.

Exactly, this is my POV, the others are talking about sharing ID's and therefore sharing apps. I have no issues with people doing it legally by having individual accounts like the way you describe

 

[CmdrThor]

Exactly, this is my POV, the others are talking about sharing ID's and therefore sharing apps. I have no issues with people doing it legally by having individual accounts like the way you describe

Except you said everyone needs to purchase the apps individually. I would argue that people sharing Apple IDs are simply breaking the terms of the Apple ID, not pirating the apps. The terms of use and licensing I linked clearly state such USAGE is allowed. It does not mention how you copy them from one device to another. Apple is being vague on purpose here.

 

[jmmo20]

Except you said everyone needs to purchase the apps individually. I would argue that people sharing Apple IDs are simply breaking the terms of the Apple ID, not pirating the apps. The terms of use and licensing I linked clearly state such USAGE is allowed. It does not mention how you copy them from one device to another. Apple is being vague on purpose here.

Exactly, he's contradicting himself.
That's the way most couple I know use their apple IDs. Each one has their own, but sometimes share specific apps by logging temporaitly into his/her account from the other one's iphone. That or using home sharing through iTunes.

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

Exactly, he's contradicting himself.

He also thinks his argument is made stronger when he "downs" everything you guys say and "up" everything that he says...

Anyways, I'm glad I found out about this home sharing method. We might do that

 

[Dwalls90]

It's called a universal app, nothing new or special there. It's the lazy developers, or should that be smart developers wanting to charge people multiple times for the near-identical content.

Yea, wouldn't that be great, except we have developers with "Angry Birds HD" and "Angry Birds" (Hell, it's almost annoying that Seasons and Rio weren't in-app purchased content to prevent me from needing 3 Angry Bird apps!)

Apple specifically state in the T&C's that and apple ID is for individuals, not families or couples.

I think You lot have a nice misinterpretation of the use of home sharing, since, in the T&C's, the Apple ID is specifically for an individual and the Apple ID is specifically not to be shared with others, home sharing is intended for individuals to access their media from one device to another, like someone has a desktop in one room and an iOS device or laptop access music to stream or whatnot.

Show me where Apple say or show that an Apple ID can be shared amongst family and I'll change my mind.

I know many people that have a desktop, a personal laptop, then a work laptop and an iPhone or iPod. Apple obviously picked 5 as its a round number.

Yes you paid for an app for your use only, letting oters have it, family or not, Is still borderline piracy, no different to buying office or some other software and letting someone else use it. You're just screwing over hard working developers and artists by doing this. In my house my other half has her own Apple ID seperate to mine, we buy our own apps separately, it's no issue.

Exactly what I was trying to say. The 5 limit is for 5 of your own personal devices, not so you can give it to all your friends

Sharing apps or purchased media is infact illegal. Fact, Apps are software. Fact, a license is entitled to one person, the person who purchased the license. Ever wonder why computer games (used to [before people started getting smart and burning pirated copies of the game]) require a CD to boot? To prevent piracy and from you giving the CD to your friend to play. But surely that is only "sharing" and not "stealing", right?

As you can clearly see, I agree that sharing Apple IDs is against the rules. I am arguing that sharing the apps is not, therefore it is not piracy. Those who share Apple IDs are doing it the wrong way, the proper way is to use Home Sharing. Also see the part that says you can have content from up to FIVE ACCOUNTS (that is Apple IDs) on each device. That seems to indicate my wife could log into my iPhone with her account and install an App, but I could not just permanently use her Apple ID. Although the easiest way to do it would just be to use Home Sharing and copy that to my laptop, then sync with my device.

You are taking "Home Sharing" too literally. Home Sharing is a means of easily transporting YOUR media between YOUR devices in YOUR household. Before, one would have to basically put it on a thumb drive and run around the house doing this. "Home Sharing" is just a simplified vehicle for just that. You are interpreting it is a means of sharing YOUR media with people other than yourself (illegal).

The fact that it requires authorization of that device with YOUR Apple ID, should tell you that the media is not meant to be freely distributed to other's devices.

 

[CmdrThor]

Fact, a license is entitled to one person, the person who purchased the license.

Wrong. A license is entitled to whoever the license says it is entitled to. I posted the license for Apple App Store software above. It clearly says I can put apps I buy on devices I own or control. I own everything my wife owns and my wife owns everything I own. If I had kids it would be the same, I would own those devices.

Why else would it be spelled out in the license agreement that you can have apps purchased by up to 5 different accounts on a single device? It is so people within the same household can share the purchases.

I am not talking about sharing with friends or even family members I don't live with. This is strictly for anyone in my household.

 

[3bs]

It would be pretty cool if game progress and stuff like that was synced and saved on your iCloud account.

 

[ViPhone]

Ooh licensing and legality issues. I will pass on entering those discussions.

For now..

Anyone notice that iCloud.com is extremely slow in loading lately?

Takes several refreshes and minutes of waiting for the website and login window to load.

 

[shandyman]

Exactly, he's contradicting himself.
That's the way most couple I know use their apple IDs. Each one has their own, but sometimes share specific apps by logging temporaitly into his/her account from the other one's iphone. That or using home sharing through iTunes.

No i'm not contradicting myself. also i said borderline pirating, not actually pirating. What people sharing apps are doing is basically akin to someone buying an album and making copies for their mates, the system doesn't easily stop it, but it's still against the rules. you're all taking home sharing a bit to liberally and in doing so, breaking the terms of the Apple ID and again, you're screwing hard working devs in the process, and knowing a few devs myself, i take offence to people doing that.

He also thinks his argument is made stronger when he "downs" everything you guys say and "up" everything that he says...

i'm not doing that, how can i when i'm using tapatalk and cannot even see the up and down thing........

Wrong. A license is entitled to whoever the license says it is entitled to. I posted the license for Apple App Store software above. It clearly says I can put apps I buy on devices I own or control. I own everything my wife owns and my wife owns everything I own. If I had kids it would be the same, I would own those devices.

Why else would it be spelled out in the license agreement that you can have apps purchased by up to 5 different accounts on a single device? It is so people within the same household can share the purchases.

I am not talking about sharing with friends or even family members I don't live with. This is strictly for anyone in my household.

but also Apple's T&C's state that an Apple ID is for an individual, the licence belongs to the Apple ID, an Apple ID cannot belong to both you and your wife on that basis....

Anyone notice that iCloud.com is extremely slow in loading lately?

Takes several refreshes and minutes of waiting for the website and login window to load.

hmm seems fine on mine at the moment, temporary maybe?