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I bought my 2011 MBP with 4 GB RAM and 128 GB SSD. I upgraded the RAM immediately and bumped the SSD to 256 GB about a year later.

If I were to buy a rMBP right now, I would certainly go for 16 GB directly, and probably get the 512 GB SSD. That would make the upfront cost somewhat higher, but the total cost of the system will not be so much different, once I purchase the upgrade components myself. The upgrade would cost $500 at Apple, around $100 + $400 for the components (Crucial RAM, Samsung SSD). The main difference is that if I could do the upgrade myself, I would have an extra set of RAM (not that useful) and an extra SSD (somewhat useful), and I could speculate on price drops on the components.

Overall I don't care so much. These are laptops after all, they have never been very upgradable.
 
I'll still buy, but am putting it off as long as possible because Apple isn't selling a machine I want currently. Now that the Retina display exists, I wouldn't want to buy a machine that doesn't have one (unless I can pick up a cheap used machine maybe). In my next Mac laptop I want:

* 11" or maybe 13" Retina Display
* 16GB of RAM
* 1TB SSD
* CPU benching better than my 2007 Mac Pro (Geekbench > 9000)
* Decent GPU - enough to run FCPX reasonably well

The 13" Retina MacBook Pro will eventually meet these requirements, it's just a matter of time. I'm hoping I can get this config for under $2000 (I'll buy refurb, in fact I prefer it). I'm planning to wait around 2 years for this. I wish that an 11" (Pro or Air) that would meet these requirements would exist, but that might not happen in time.

At my job, I currently have a 15" rMBP w/ a max out configuration. One of the best things about the Retina display is that I can arbitrarily change resolutions. So I can use 1920x1200 when I'm sitting at a table doing work that requires a large workspace. Or I can switch to best-for-retina 1440x900 equivalent when I'm laying in bed with my eyes further away from the screen, when I don't need the larger workspace. For my home machine, I want something smaller and even more portable that has this same advantage, while also having a decent amount of power.

I don't like that these machines are getting less configurable, but it's not bad enough to stop me from buying Macs. For my work, I could use Linux, but for my hobbies/home stuff (music production, video editing, photo management), it's either Windows or OS X, and I dislike Windows enough that I'd rather use an old Mac than a new Windows machine.

The soldered on RAM isn't too bad, because I'm going to maxed out the RAM one way or another (though I'd rather buy from a 3rd party and save $$$, but Apple's pricing isn't too bad). The proprietary SSD is annoying, though, because Apple's prices on the larger capacities are high, I'm more than likely going to want to upgrade that in the future, and it's very expensive to buy these from 3rd parties. I hope that Apple eventually starts using a standard connector (maybe they will adopt NGFF). Having Apple service the battery is ok, as long as the prices aren't crazy, which they aren't.
 
I purchased my system with the understanding that I will not be able to upgrade. I am ok with it. If the system lasts me 3-4 years, I will be happy.
 
Not an issue at all. Yes, for people here it will be, but for 99% of the world, they don't know what a SSD is, memory is, or have even the remotest desire to learn.

They want it to work. Open the lit, hit the power button, and away they go.

Apple understands that you succeed by giving 90% of the people 90% of what they want.
 
I hate what they're doing. I've upgraded memory twice and hard drive twice in my current MBP, and I'd have had to buy again a year ago if I couldn't do that.

I'll still buy Apple for two reasons:

1) Nobody else sells a 16x10 laptop any more, and I can't stand 16x9, especially at ridiculously low vertical resolutions (even 1080p is silly IMO, and a lot of them are at 1600x900).

2) OS X (I hate the iOS-ification that's been going on, but it's still worth it to have UNIX and Photoshop in a single environment.)

However, I'm going to change from buying high-end and planning to get 3-4 years out of each machine to buying low-middle and aiming for closer to 2 years.

It'll be a little more expensive (which I'm sure Apple is thrilled about) but to future-proof now for 3-years in advance (rather than upgrading down the line) is prohibitive.

And at least this way I get new innovations sooner. E.g. my current 3-year-old laptop doesn't have USB3 or Thunderbolt, but one I bought a year ago would have; if I plan to buy now and upgrade in 2015 years I'll get access to DDR4 memory and USB SuperSpeed sooner than if I upgrade in 2016.

I'd vote my dollars and purchase elsewhere, except the alternatives aren't any better. Even if I didn't care about aspect ratio and OS, I need computing power and don't want something heavy. You can't get anything as light as the rMBPs or Airs that's nearly as powerful and *is* upgradable, so what would you buy instead?
 
When a final straw eventually breaks the camel's back, that tipping point happens at the end of a long sequences of disappointments.

The grievances you mentioned -- soldered RAM, non-user-replaceable batteries -- are the beginnings of a load of disappointments that are currently outweighed by OSX's other benefits.

At some point, the load becomes too great, and the floodgates crack, and people shift to another platform.

e.g. people shifting away from previous market leaders, e.g. Blackberry, Palm etc.

These are some grievances which - although not fatal in themselves - are building up a weight of grudges that, eventually, will combine into a toll that breaks the camel's back:

-- removal of DVD burners/players, just to have a slim profile.

-- total removal of matte, antiglare screens from all iMac and Cinema Displays, i.e. no matte screens for any Apple desktop gear, need by professionals and many people suffering from eye-strain.

-- soldered-RAM not upgradeable.

-- no user-replaceable batteries.

-- GLUED-IN batteries. This is a separate grievance to "no user-replaceable batteries". At least, with previous batteries, you could actually replace them by opening up the case, with a bit of hard work. But, no, Apple now glues the darn batteries in, so that even if you can open up the case, the glue prevents you from removing the battery. Apple is so SPITEFUL that it purposely glues the batteries in, not only making it harder for YOU to replace the battery, but also making it harder for their own Apple technicians to remove the glued-in battery. There is no other reason for glueing in the battery other than Apple's spiteful attempt at foiling any attempt by the user to replace the battery.

-- dumbed down iOS with no Finder-like filing system.

-- refusal to offer user-option to bring back colored icons in the Finder. Sure, mono-chrome looks more artsy and modern. No doubt. Monochrome looks nicer. But some of us, whilst acknowledging that it looks nicer, still need color icons so we can work FASTER. Why this refusal to offer options?

-- dumbing down of OSX, e.g. removal of option, in Calendar, of stipulating the length of snooze e.g. 5 min, 10 min, 1 hr, 2 hr, 1 day etc. -- now restricted to just one option of snooze for 10 minutes. Apple thinks such dumbing down makes life easier, but it makes life harder for us when we need options to snooze a reminder for the time we need.

-- refusing to add an SD slot to iPads -- why? So you are forced to upgrade when the memory becomes to small for your needs.

-- refusal to allow iOS apps to save files to a common area, rather than partitioning save-areas to each app. Sure, mom and pops find that simplistic, but some of us need a regular Finder for more complex activities and projects. Why not allow iOS to have a Preference to turn on more complex features, rather than totally dumbing down the iOS for the lowest common denominator?

-- rapid annual upgrades of OSX, each year causing havoc with incompatibility with OSX applications, often having to purchase upgrades of many apps. Remember, a version of OSX is not like a rapid upgrade cycle of Google Chrome or Firefox. Here, when OSX changes, often it means some Mac apps no longer work in the new OS. Developers must upgrade their apps, often charging big bucks for it. Older Macs go out of date, making their Macs obsolete, often when the new features in OSX are so darn trivial. Instead of obsoleting older Macs, why can't older Macs use the new OSX without activating those features that require the newer hardware. In Mountain Lion, I don't care for the fancy animations when you close a reminder, etc. Why should my Mac be obsoleted by such nonsense? Oh, yes, Apple needs to force us to buy new hardware so it can add to its cash pile. Yes, the money pile is growing, but the aura of Apple as a company that cares for its users is being replaced by a snide Wall Street cash cow that finds every strategy to milk its users of money. Think, people, think. If Apple sells less smartphones than Samsung, but is making more money, does that not equate to Apple milking more money per item than is reasonable compared to the industry standard? It does so because users are locked into buying Apple because of the aura of Apple products - but once that bubble bursts, you're left with a greedy company that will try to screw its users for greater and greater profits as the ship sinks.

At some point, once the market no longer feels that Apple is cool, these grievances, and no doubt a list of future misteps, will start to stink bad. That's when the tipping point happens, when people start calling Apple the next Blackberry or Nokia.

If I can sum it up, I think it points to Apple being a company that is more beholden to its koolaid of producing computers that are works of art, rather than caring what its customers want.
 
By the time they need replacing, perhaps there won't be laptops... we'll have computers installed under our skin. :p

Lol. I was thinking that. If I get a 2012 cMBP, it wont need an upgrade for a little while. That's enough time to see where the macbook is heading and to make a better decision.
 
Precisely why I'm now buying cMBP 13"... The rMBP looks great but only 128GB? In EU, 128GB version costs 1280 pounds or 1900 usd (these are the prices even outside of GB). So I pay nearly 2 thousand bucks for something with a 128GB HDD? I know I don't need that much space but damn, I want to be able to change it if I need to. The Air looks very sleek with its slimness and great weight but I decided I want to sacrifice the weight for the option to add second HDD (probably SSD that will be 128GB, but leaving 500GB storage in the machine), add ram (even though 4GB is enough by all means, I want to have the device for longer than 1-2 years so who knows how much ram will I need then) and possibly change the battery.

I was reluctant at the beginning, when I was deciding with my budget what to buy. I was really going to buy the 11" Air. Then, my budget got a bit bigger and I decided for 13" air. The cMBP has pretty bad screen if you ask me (the resolution is a joke) so I wasn't even considering it. Then, I really got thinking, since I'm a power user, I can do a lot of things to the device if I want to that will make it better. Why not go with something that doesn't require soldering? I'm sure a lot of people won't even consider cMBP now, since it's no retina, "thick", "heavy" and all that. Well, it has also 2 places for HDD (if you don't need the DVD drive) and upgradeable ram up to 16GB (officially only 8, but you know how it is).
 
though i do miss stuff like upgrading to an SSD and still have a large harddrive for movies etc. i still think its worth it to get the retina now over the cmbp, mainly because the Retina is one hell of a good computer, and weighs next to nothing, hell, i even play games on it daily.
 
The retina doesn't have dedicated graphic as well, does it? In that case, it will play games just like cMBP would. The processor is the same, the only difference is 8GB ram in terms of HW. It's basically the same computer as cMBP with the exception of display and SSD. The latter can be painlessly brought to cMBP as well, just like 8GB of ram, with a lot less money... I'm not saying that retina MBP is a bad computer but very overpriced just because of the display.
 
-- GLUED-IN batteries. This is a separate grievance to "no user-replaceable batteries". At least, with previous batteries, you could actually replace them by opening up the case, with a bit of hard work. But, no, Apple now glues the darn batteries in, so that even if you can open up the case, the glue prevents you from removing the battery. Apple is so SPITEFUL that it purposely glues the batteries in, not only making it harder for YOU to replace the battery, but also making it harder for their own Apple technicians to remove the glued-in battery. There is no other reason for glueing in the battery other than Apple's spiteful attempt at foiling any attempt by the user to replace the battery.

The battery is an integrated part of the top case and is not meant to be removed. It's not sold as a separate part and no apple tech should be removing it
 
The retina doesn't have dedicated graphic as well, does it? In that case, it will play games just like cMBP would. The processor is the same, the only difference is 8GB ram in terms of HW. It's basically the same computer as cMBP with the exception of display and SSD. The latter can be painlessly brought to cMBP as well, just like 8GB of ram, with a lot less money... I'm not saying that retina MBP is a bad computer but very overpriced just because of the display.
The 15" retina models have discreet graphics and quad core processors so that's the big driver, besides the display, for the price being so high. 13" retina models use the HD 4000 graphics and dual core processors.
 
Hi everyone,

This has been bugging me for a few days now and I thought I'd ask what the other members here think about how non-upgradeable the new Macbooks are going to be.

I have a early 2011 13" MBP and it suits me just fine, I have bumped up the RAM and am considering buying an SSD (although I may sell this first, then upgrade to a 2012 13" MBP before getting an SSD).

I find it depressing reading that the future of Macbook is soldered in RAM (!!), stuck in battery (?!?!) and no way to upgrade anything. Basically, you have to buy now, what you intended to buy in the future, or else. To me, that attitude just stinks!

I want to ask everyone here, are you going to stop buying Macbooks from 2013 onwards and buy one up to 2012, (possibly the last of the upgradables) or go ahead and get a shiny new Macbook and put up with no upgrades?

I find this a real dilemma and am very interested in what you all think.

The only purpose of having upgradable RAM and HDD's whatsoever at all are to save money. Nobody would ever do it if not for that reason.

If you actually compare the prices of Apple's computers with soldered RAM they are very competetive. So competitive in fact that they are only charging you around $40 markup compared to replacing it yourself. And keep in mind they are offering the absolute maximum that any other MacBook supports 16GB, for much less than they usually charge so the saving are almost nothing if you could replace it yourself.

The hard drive on Apple's 13" Retina and 15" Retina IS user replacable, it's just in a different format than standard to save space. Apple uses the blade format on the MacBook 15 Retina, and the blade AND standard 2.5" hard drive format on the 13" Retina. The cost of blade SSD's is not much more than regular ones, running around $80 more, and you can expect prices to drop, and you can use regular drives on the 13" pro retina.

The retinas have very unique upgrade prices, the ram upgrades are very cheap and so are the SSD upgrades. So actually if you get a 15" Retina with a 512gb SSD and 16GB of ram, the upgrades are only $400. If you were to get a MacBook Pro 15" and upgrade it yourself aftermarket to those specs, it would cost you $550, which is more than $400.

What this means is going back to the original statment, the only purpose whatsoever to benefit from user upgradable parts is that it is cheaper than having the factory upgrade them. Considering that Apple charges only 70% of what it would cost YOU to upgrade them, compared to 140% which is what they used to charge, there is no cost benefit whatosever to user upgradable parts as Apple has made it cheaper to get an upgraded retina than to do it yourself. Apple is actually selling the upgrades below what the manufacturers offer them even on sale to consumers.

The Retinas don't even have the price of the upgrades built into them, the display is said to cost $500 alone and the graphics card is $100 more if you buy it retail (1GB vs 512GB), so the base price is more aggressive than the classic MacBook. On top of that the Retinas have a better resale value as a percentage of purchase price, meaning in the long run you will make $200-$400 profit with a Retina.


So what you're telling me is that you're:

a. Angry about hardware upgrades being 30% cheaper with free soldered instalation compared to what it costs you to do it yourself.

b. Angry that you will save $200-$400 in the long term due to higher resale value.

c. Angry about $40 more in increased costs for RAM, and $80 more in SSD DIY upgrade costs on a $3000 laptop which results in reducing it's size and weight by 1/3rd.

Sounds absurdly crazy to me.
 
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I used to feel the same way about the lack of upgrading my MacBook Air 11" when I first purchased it in 2010. It was the base model with a 64 gig ssd. I was concerned about the lack of user replaceable battery and the small ssd drive. However, my main need was for a very portable small machine with good battery life.

Fast forward 3 years my machine is still great. No problems fantastic. These machine are tools. Each configured differently for different users and different needs. No one can accurately predict the future needs of demands. However, looking at trends fewer people are buying cd/DVD. There fewer people will likely need a DVD drive. Dump it clean up the machine, improve battery life and reduce weight. Everyone uses the keyboard and screen. The better quality those are the more likely you are to buy it. These appeal to the broadest audience.

Apple knows there are still people as this thread illustrates who need/want a DVD drive and some upgrade path. Which is likely why they did not stop production on the cMacbook pro.

They will now watch and see how the market votes with its checkbook.

I have not upgraded any laptop thinkpad, Mac book air, MacBook Pro in the last 6 years.
 
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