supertiffany

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Apr 4, 2019
373
458
I've been using my S10E as a secondary fone, it still has a lot features (dual messenger, secret folder, android flexibility in file management)
so that's why I keep it. The size is what makes it a great secondary fone, since it is a not bulky to bring as an extra.

will the iPhone 12 mini bring back the trend of flagship compact fones?

thoughts?
 

JPack

macrumors 604
Mar 27, 2017
7,339
12,493
A flagship has more than 2 rear camera lenses. I don't think the iPhone 12 mini will change any Android product plans.

The mini hits a $699 price point for 5G. On Android, 5G devices are already available for sub-$150.
 

ian87w

macrumors 68040
Feb 22, 2020
3,627
4,815
Indonesia
Nope. The ship has sailed way long time ago. And the general demand speaks for itself. OEMs like Xiaomi, Realme, etc are even putting 6.5" screens on their $100 phones. That shows that overall, the demand is for larger screens, with ~6.5" being the sweet spot at this point. The demand for smaller phones are just too small for the tight margins Android OEMs. Apple can afford to do it because it's Apple. Even their keynote said it, that "only Apple can do it." :D
 

Khaleesi Kendall

macrumors regular
Mar 31, 2020
193
258
A flagship has more than 2 rear camera lenses. I don't think the iPhone 12 mini will change any Android product plans.

The mini hits a $699 price point for 5G. On Android, 5G devices are already available for sub-$150.
Except those sub 150 phones are not at all comparable.
 

nickdalzell1

macrumors 68000
Dec 8, 2019
1,631
888
The 12 'Mini' is the same screen size of the Samsung Galaxy Note II. That's not 'mini' by any stretch. That's still phablet size.

Guess I have to keep my Samsung Galaxy S Relay 4G alive for some years to come. Still waiting for small screen, sliders to return, and an OS I can stand to look at.

All this obsession with huge phones, makes me wonder if the later generations have super huge, wreck it Ralph hands or something...I can't imagine holding something that large or keeping one in a pocket.
 
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Shanghaichica

macrumors G5
Apr 8, 2013
13,073
10,673
UK
The 12 'Mini' is the same screen size of the Samsung Galaxy Note II. That's not 'mini' by any stretch. That's still phablet size.

Guess I have to keep my Samsung Galaxy S Relay 4G alive for some years to come. Still waiting for small screen, sliders to return, and an OS I can stand to look at.

All this obsession with huge phones, makes me wonder if the later generations have super huge, wreck it Ralph hands or something...I can't imagine holding something that large or keeping one in a pocket.
I don’t have large hands at all. But I don’t mind using both hands. However I’ve never had to contend with the pocket thing as I’ve always kept my phones in my handbag.
 

ian87w

macrumors 68040
Feb 22, 2020
3,627
4,815
Indonesia
The 12 'Mini' is the same screen size of the Samsung Galaxy Note II. That's not 'mini' by any stretch. That's still phablet size.

Guess I have to keep my Samsung Galaxy S Relay 4G alive for some years to come. Still waiting for small screen, sliders to return, and an OS I can stand to look at.

All this obsession with huge phones, makes me wonder if the later generations have super huge, wreck it Ralph hands or something...I can't imagine holding something that large or keeping one in a pocket.
The sweet spot is hovering around 6.5". That's the size most Android phones are aiming at. And that's actually not that big as the aspect ratio is taller on most modern phones now.

For example, the Samsung Galaxy S20's width is only 3mm more than your Relay, while sporting a 6.2" screen (vs 4" on your Relay).
 

michael9891

macrumors 68030
Sep 26, 2016
2,912
3,728
England
For example, the Samsung Galaxy S20's width is only 3mm more than your Relay, while sporting a 6.2" screen (vs 4" on your Relay).
He hopes people won't actually work out the size of things, which it has nothing to do with.

It's all about him feeling the need to tell everyone repeatedly how he'd rather use an ancient piece of crap and modern products are no good. Look at me, I'm different.
 

oVerboost

macrumors 68000
Sep 17, 2013
1,561
1,031
United Kingdom
He hopes people won't actually work out the size of things, which it has nothing to do with.

It's all about him feeling the need to tell everyone repeatedly how he'd rather use an ancient piece of crap and modern products are no good. Look at me, I'm different.

Glad I’m not the only one to notice a trend with this user.

Old mobile tech is crap, fact.
 
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Oohara

macrumors 68030
Jun 28, 2012
2,909
1,958
It might not spark a wave of truly "flagship" (God that word is starting to annoy me btw...) level phones at that size, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see at least some Android OEMs start to offer similar size/spec models to compete in that segment.
 

Oohara

macrumors 68030
Jun 28, 2012
2,909
1,958
I hope not. I hate small phones.
Don't worry, it's not like a few new small, relatively high-spec phones on the market would threaten the dominant position of the big ones. There does seem to be a market for them though, otherwise Apple would never have made this move.
 

Oohara

macrumors 68030
Jun 28, 2012
2,909
1,958
The 12 'Mini' is the same screen size of the Samsung Galaxy Note II. That's not 'mini' by any stretch. That's still phablet size.

Guess I have to keep my Samsung Galaxy S Relay 4G alive for some years to come. Still waiting for small screen, sliders to return, and an OS I can stand to look at.

All this obsession with huge phones, makes me wonder if the later generations have super huge, wreck it Ralph hands or something...I can't imagine holding something that large or keeping one in a pocket.
The screen size is similar only in diagonal measurement. They have totally different aspect ratios, and the Note II has ten year old mega bezels. The Mini is hardly phablet size.

Screenshot 2020-10-21 at 11.53.09.png
 

The Game 161

macrumors Penryn
Dec 15, 2010
25,858
14,599
UK
So what is a "flagship" at that point? I look at "flagship" as the single device that stands above all others in the line.
There can be more than one type of flagship I guess. For me S20 FE is a flagship even with a lower price.

Doesn't mean there aren't top end flagships.

Depends how you define a flagship. For me any phone with top of the line specs and chip is a flagship
 

Oohara

macrumors 68030
Jun 28, 2012
2,909
1,958
So what is a "flagship" at that point? I look at "flagship" as the single device that stands above all others in the line.
To me it's really starting to feel like an old flavour of the month term that doesn't really say much anymore. If it ever did. I agree with your definition, but now that we often get several models with very similar specs from a single manufacturer, which then also get replaced within a year or even a few months, it's hard to say which device stands above all others in the line.

Take the S20, S20 Ultra, and Note 20 Ultra for example. Which of them is Samsung's "flagship"? Does it even matter?

I feel like the term "flagship" basically only gets used for negative comparisons, as a kind of false generalisation. "This isn't good enough for a flagship"... What does that even mean?

To clarify, I'm not criticising what you wrote, I'm just extending your question (or hijacking it, sorry :p) to discuss the term itself.
 

sracer

macrumors G3
Apr 9, 2010
9,103
10,357
where hip is spoken
I hope not. I hate small phones.
The introduction of smaller high-end phones wouldn't eliminate the existence of phablets. :p You'll still have your choice of oversized phones.

Besides, there's little chance that smaller phones will be re-introduced anytime soon. The pendulum will swing in the other direction toward smaller phones, but that'll most likely be another 4-5 years out.
 
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TopherMan12

macrumors 6502a
Oct 10, 2019
771
861
Atlanta, GA
There can be more than one type of flagship I guess. For me S20 FE is a flagship even with a lower price.

Doesn't mean there aren't top end flagships.

Depends how you define a flagship. For me any phone with top of the line specs and chip is a flagship

But there is more to it than the "specs and chip". For me the iPhone 12 Pro is the flagship over the rest of the iPhone lineup. It has the premium build with stainless steel and has the additional camera features and larger size option. And it has the price to match. I have a hard time associating base iPhone with the word "flagship", especially the mini.

As @Oohara pointed out, it is a bit murkier when looking at the Samsung line, but seems pretty clear cut with Apple to me.
 
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MarkX

macrumors 6502a
Sep 10, 2015
810
892
Fochabers, Scotland
The definition of flagship is the best or most important thing owned or produced by a particular organisation.

The iPhone 12 mini or S20 FE is not that thing by their respective manufacturers. Sure they share a few components of the true flagships but that's it.
 
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nickdalzell1

macrumors 68000
Dec 8, 2019
1,631
888
The screen size is similar only in diagonal measurement. They have totally different aspect ratios, and the Note II has ten year old mega bezels. The Mini is hardly phablet size.

View attachment 970331
By the time you put an Otterbox Defender on it (basically necessary for any modern phone that breaks after a single drop) it ends up being pretty close to the size of a Galaxy Note II, at least my Galaxy A01 did and it only had a 5.7" display. The case also increased the thickness where it felt like an oversized HTC Thunderbolt in thickness.

There's still a bunch of people who want phones 4" and smaller, that's why many kept the 5S and SE (first generation) so long. I'd love to see a modern iPhone 4, screen size, body, and hopefully UI design like iOS 6, but that last one is my personal preference. I never liked flat UI design and was happy to see it give way to skeuo and am still upset we're still seeing even flatter, brigher, whiter UI 7 years after the fact.

The phone landscape is so bland, boring and all the stuff looks alike. Everything's a Phablet. I thought the Galaxy Note series was supposed to remain separate from the S series but I was wrong, so why keep the Note series? Why make an iPhone 'mini' that's the size of a phablet?

Everything's an oversized brick with minimal bezels, and I can't understand why. If you ever read e-books with a mostly bezel-less display you will keep triggering actions unless you hold your phone in an uncomfortable position. The OEMs spoke but the market just did nothing to stop it. We have become conditioned to just accept mediocrity no matter what form these days, even if Apple were to release something truly garbage, people would buy it and people like myself who knows it's garbage just get derided like a luddite and told to 'just get used to it'.
 

TopherMan12

macrumors 6502a
Oct 10, 2019
771
861
Atlanta, GA
By the time you put an Otterbox Defender on it (basically necessary for any modern phone that breaks after a single drop) it ends up being pretty close to the size of a Galaxy Note II, at least my Galaxy A01 did and it only had a 5.7" display. The case also increased the thickness where it felt like an oversized HTC Thunderbolt in thickness.

There's still a bunch of people who want phones 4" and smaller, that's why many kept the 5S and SE (first generation) so long. I'd love to see a modern iPhone 4, screen size, body, and hopefully UI design like iOS 6, but that last one is my personal preference. I never liked flat UI design and was happy to see it give way to skeuo and am still upset we're still seeing even flatter, brigher, whiter UI 7 years after the fact.

The phone landscape is so bland, boring and all the stuff looks alike. Everything's a Phablet. I thought the Galaxy Note series was supposed to remain separate from the S series but I was wrong, so why keep the Note series? Why make an iPhone 'mini' that's the size of a phablet?

Everything's an oversized brick with minimal bezels, and I can't understand why. If you ever read e-books with a mostly bezel-less display you will keep triggering actions unless you hold your phone in an uncomfortable position. The OEMs spoke but the market just did nothing to stop it. We have become conditioned to just accept mediocrity no matter what form these days, even if Apple were to release something truly garbage, people would buy it and people like myself who knows it's garbage just get derided like a luddite and told to 'just get used to it'.

I think the market has spoken quite loudly that it prefers phones larger than 4 inches. Whoever this "bunch of people" who want tiny phones are it doesn't seem there are enough of them for phone manufacturers to care.

Just because others don't hold the same outlook as you as far as the phone landscape doesn't mean they are "conditioned".
 
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nickdalzell1

macrumors 68000
Dec 8, 2019
1,631
888
I think the market has spoken quite loudly that it prefers phones larger than 4 inches. Whoever this "bunch of people" who want tiny phones are it doesn't seem there are enough of them for phone manufacturers to care.

Just because others don't hold the same outlook as you as far as the phone landscape doesn't mean they are "conditioned".

No, the market didn't speak at all. The OEMs spoke, and we just took it without complaining. We have become conditioned to accept that a phone over 2 years old makes one an outcast or something so we must have the newest because 'newer is always better' and so on. We accept imperfection, mediocrity these days. The days of companies making a mistake that ends the company are long gone. We have become complacent with whatever the OEM, be it Apple or Android, throws at us, assuming 'they know best'.

The comsumers are supposed to dictate the demand, not the reverse. Comsumers want x, company produces x. Now it's company produces y, garbage or not, but if tech bloggers love it, and it has an Apple logo, people buy y. Doesn't mean it is a success, just that people fell for it hook line and sinker. If supply and demand worked properly, Apple would never have removed the headphone jack or made a screen larger than 4" since that wasn't the way the market trends were going. In fact they were still succeeding quite well the way they had been for years. No consumer said 'no' to an iPhone because it had a headphone jack, no sales were being lost for not having large displays...No one asked for removing the jack or asked for a larger screen. The companies are supposed to listen to the free market not the other way around. For Apple they just ran out of ideas for improving so the only thing to do was 'change for the sake of change' and all they could come up with was 'get rid of headphone jack and make huge screen and jack the price even higher'.

Another example. iOS 7's success. Was it really a success? I think not. Apple took away the ability to downgrade and the numbers went up. People likely had the update automatically install as I did, and didn't know it was going to be flat UI garbage. The numbers were artificially inflated. Now, if they gave the choice to downgrade, then I would bet the numbers for iOS 6 would be far higher than iOS 7, and flat UI would fail just as it did for Microsoft when they launched Windows 8.

Companies no longer care what the free market wants. If they did, Apple would have backtracked a ton, and so would Google. The fact they don't care what we think anymore is blind arrogance. It means they know people will buy anything with an Apple logo and if Apple is the only real deal available, the mindset of 'I must upgrade' takes over. It doesn't mean they are happy, they just tolerate what is offered since they literally have no say in the matter.

I will never understand it. I think it has a lot to do with the whole 'catering to the masses' mindset. Otherwise known as catering to the idiots and ignorant people. Smart people or geeks have literally become irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. No one is catering to our needs. Not even a niche that sells for three times the cost of an iPhone 12. You'd think a company would exist the same way Rolex and Lamborghini exists, to cater to the niche market...such as those of us who prefer sub-4" displays and one-handed use.
 
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