Will the nTB MBPs get an upgrade sometime this year?

[case2001]

It's not always easy for me to go to an Apple store. I travel a lot for work so it would be very convenient if I can just pry off the key cap to clean it myself, which is barely possible on my old 2017 mbp. Hope the 2018 version is improved.

Maybe I’m in the minority, but this is really huge. I don’t really need the 4 cores. I need a reliable 13 inch retina screen. I have been so hesitant about purchase due to the keyboard issues. No machine is perfect (except my MacBook Air). But if this is true, I think I will likely save and buy the 2018.

If Apple had an update for the nTB why wouldn’t they have rolled it out ? I seriously doubt they will update it. I’m not interested in the 12 inch MacBook Retina, so this likely makes my decision.

 

[AppleHaterLover]

Maybe I’m in the minority, but this is really huge. I don’t really need the 4 cores. I need a reliable 13 inch retina screen. I have been so hesitant about purchase due to the keyboard issues. No machine is perfect (except my MacBook Air). But if this is true, I think I will likely save and buy the 2018.

If Apple had an update for the nTB why wouldn’t they have rolled it out ? I seriously doubt they will update it. I’m not interested in the 12 inch MacBook Retina, so this likely makes my decision.

I haven't had any issues with almost 10 months of nTB ownership (8 months with my first one that was stolen, two months with my current one). Zero issues.

The issue here is that the nTB uses a lower TDP processor (15W), and Intel has not released a Coffee Lake 15W TDP CPU with the Iris Pro Graphics, so there isn't a direct successor to the chip in the 2017 nTB. If/when it comes, there may be a successor.

 

[roland.g]

I think with software like BetterTouchTool and apps writing in specific commands, it is becoming more useful.

 

[Ma2k5]

The issue here is that the nTB uses a lower TDP processor (15W), and Intel has not released a Coffee Lake 15W TDP CPU with the Iris Pro Graphics, so there isn't a direct successor to the chip in the 2017 nTB. If/when it comes, there may be a successor.

Are there any upcoming CPU's with Iris Pro for 15w? Both Coffeelake/Whiskeylake all appear to be Intel HD 620.

 

[frou]

Edit - Wrong info

 

[case2001]

I haven't had any issues with almost 10 months of nTB ownership (8 months with my first one that was stolen, two months with my current one). Zero issues.

The issue here is that the nTB uses a lower TDP processor (15W), and Intel has not released a Coffee Lake 15W TDP CPU with the Iris Pro Graphics, so there isn't a direct successor to the chip in the 2017 nTB. If/when it comes, there may be a successor.

So. Apple may be waiting to update the nTB machine until new CPU package available. That would make sense. They will have to change the motherboard to fit around the new CPU package so they wait to see what intel specifications are. In which case, no update to the nTB for foreseeable future.

I know Apple will repair the keyboards of the machine for 4 years but I would rather have a more reliable machine to begin with.

 

[sublunar]

So. Apple may be waiting to update the nTB machine until new CPU package available. That would make sense. They will have to change the motherboard to fit around the new CPU package so they wait to see what intel specifications are. In which case, no update to the nTB for foreseeable future.

I know Apple will repair the keyboards of the machine for 4 years but I would rather have a more reliable machine to begin with.

Apple will already know what's happening with Intel's near term road map. My own impression is that they know what's coming and there's no 15w CPU with Iris Graphics on the horizon.

I believe their rethink will involve rebranding the nTB MBP as a 13" Retina MacBook so they can justify using a cheaper CPU - in this case the Kaby Lake Refresh i5-8250U which is an older generation CPU.

Apple have still registered 5 models for the coming laptop refreshes so rather than merge the MBA and nTB MBP they could yet release a new laptop - judging by the way the model numbers go it might be a member of the MacBook family.

I had speculated on a 15" MacBook which would give programmers the ESC key back while using - for example - the U series CPU from the 13" MacBook Pro (with LPDDR3) and limiting storage expansion options so as not to cannibalise the 15" Pro.

 

[AppleHaterLover]

Apple will already know what's happening with Intel's near term road map. My own impression is that they know what's coming and there's no 15w CPU with Iris Graphics on the horizon.

I believe their rethink will involve rebranding the nTB MBP as a 13" Retina MacBook so they can justify using a cheaper CPU - in this case the Kaby Lake Refresh i5-8250U which is an older generation CPU.

Apple have still registered 5 models for the coming laptop refreshes so rather than merge the MBA and nTB MBP they could yet release a new laptop - judging by the way the model numbers go it might be a member of the MacBook family.

I had speculated on a 15" MacBook which would give programmers the ESC key back while using - for example - the U series CPU from the 13" MacBook Pro (with LPDDR3) and limiting storage expansion options so as not to cannibalise the 15" Pro.

Your theory makes sense, but would leave Apple uncovered in the “reasonably powerful, reasonably priced laptop” department - i.e. base 13” MBP - that probably makes a very large portion of MBP sales.

 

[case2001]

Apple will already know what's happening with Intel's near term road map. My own impression is that they know what's coming and there's no 15w CPU with Iris Graphics on the horizon.

I believe their rethink will involve rebranding the nTB MBP as a 13" Retina MacBook so they can justify using a cheaper CPU - in this case the Kaby Lake Refresh i5-8250U which is an older generation CPU.

Apple have still registered 5 models for the coming laptop refreshes so rather than merge the MBA and nTB MBP they could yet release a new laptop - judging by the way the model numbers go it might be a member of the MacBook family.

I had speculated on a 15" MacBook which would give programmers the ESC key back while using - for example - the U series CPU from the 13" MacBook Pro (with LPDDR3) and limiting storage expansion options so as not to cannibalise the 15" Pro.

I could see that. So the nTB MacBook Pro would now be the retina MacBook Air or to keep thing consistent the 13 inch retina MacBook. But wouldn’t they want to change the housing? To make it more consistent with the retina MacBook and to distance it from the Pro line? The biggest difference between the MacBook retina and the nTB MacBook Pro are the extra usb c and thunderbolt. Isn’t that correct? This would allow Apple to drop the price of the entry level retina MacBook and keep the pricing close to the same with 13 nTB. Could they also be looking to update the rest of retina MacBook as well?
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Your theory makes sense, but would leave Apple uncovered in the “reasonably powerful, reasonably priced laptop” department - i.e. base 13” MBP - that probably makes a very large portion of MBP sales.

They could lower the price of retina MacBook entry level covered.

 

[sublunar]

I could see that. So the nTB MacBook Pro would now be the retina MacBook Air or to keep thing consistent the 13 inch retina MacBook. But wouldn’t they want to change the housing? To make it more consistent with the retina MacBook and to distance it from the Pro line? The biggest difference between the MacBook retina and the nTB MacBook Pro are the extra usb c and thunderbolt. Isn’t that correct? This would allow Apple to drop the price of the entry level retina MacBook and keep the pricing close to the same with 13 nTB. Could they also be looking to update the rest of retina MacBook as well?
[doublepost=1533689343][/doublepost]
They could lower the price of retina MacBook entry level covered.

The 12" MacBook starts with 256Gb SSD - the uniquely small case makes it a more premium ultra portable product so they wouldn't cheapen it by offering a 128Gb SKU. I'd even go so far as to suggest they swap the headphone socket for an extra USB-C port for added flexibility.

The 13" MacBook could just use the cheaper CPU, not sure how many ports they'd offer but they'll have a cost saving by not having to re-engineer the 13" nTB MacBook Pro case and they could continue allowing 2 TB3 ports like on the nTB MBP or could save a few more dollars by going with 2 USB-C ports and doing away with Thunderbolt or having one Thunderbolt port and one USB-C for example. Obviously this machine would use the 13" Retina display but the aim here is to get as close to the MBA pricing as possible by cutting costs elsewhere and the CPU and Thunderbolt ports look prime candidates for that.

A 15" MacBook would need a new case design (without Touch Bar and Touch ID), ideally offering 4 Thunderbolt ports but perhaps segmentation could mean they go for 4 USB-C ports instead or a mix of the two (eg 2 TB3 and 2 USB-C). Specification and pricing would have to be carefully done to avoid cannibalising the Pro models. This machine would use the 15" Retina display and something like the U series CPU from the 13" Pro to keep costs down.

There's a chance that Apple might have the 65w Kaby Lake G CPUs in mind for a 15" MacBook but I think it's a risky move as that could seriously detract from the Pro models unless the model is priced accordingly (potentially above 13" Pro money).

 

[AppleHaterLover]

The 12" MacBook starts with 256Gb SSD - the uniquely small case makes it a more premium ultra portable product so they wouldn't cheapen it by offering a 128Gb SKU. I'd even go so far as to suggest they swap the headphone socket for an extra USB-C port for added flexibility.

The 13" MacBook could just use the cheaper CPU, not sure how many ports they'd offer but they'll have a cost saving by not having to re-engineer the 13" nTB MacBook Pro case and they could continue allowing 2 TB3 ports like on the nTB MBP or could save a few more dollars by going with 2 USB-C ports and doing away with Thunderbolt or having one Thunderbolt port and one USB-C for example. Obviously this machine would use the 13" Retina display but the aim here is to get as close to the MBA pricing as possible by cutting costs elsewhere and the CPU and Thunderbolt ports look prime candidates for that.

A 15" MacBook would need a new case design (without Touch Bar and Touch ID), ideally offering 4 Thunderbolt ports but perhaps segmentation could mean they go for 4 USB-C ports instead or a mix of the two (eg 2 TB3 and 2 USB-C). Specification and pricing would have to be carefully done to avoid cannibalising the Pro models. This machine would use the 15" Retina display and something like the U series CPU from the 13" Pro to keep costs down.

There's a chance that Apple might have the 65w Kaby Lake G CPUs in mind for a 15" MacBook but I think it's a risky move as that could seriously detract from the Pro models unless the model is priced accordingly (potentially above 13" Pro money).

The chance that Apple releases a 15” MB or nTB MBP is sub-zero. The world is more likely to spin backwards. Same thing for anything but USB-C on new Macs.

I kinda think that Apple will kill the nTB, introduce the new Air with an inferior processor and GPU and a Retina Display and call it a day.

 

[case2001]

The chance that Apple releases a 15” MB or nTB MBP is sub-zero. The world is more likely to spin backwards. Same thing for anything but USB-C on new Macs.

I kinda think that Apple will kill the nTB, introduce the new Air with an inferior processor and GPU and a Retina Display and call it a day.

I think you are probably correct. It is the odd product in the laptop line. It does not really fit. How about kill one of the USB C ports/redesign the case so it's similar to the current MacBook Retina, keep the butterfly keyboard. Only a 3.5 mm plug. Call it the MacBook 13". Throw in different color cases. Done call it a day. Now you have Pros with 4 ports, touch bar, 13 and 15 inch. The MacBook line with 12" and 13". Clean divisions between products. For someone like me a much clearer choice between 13 inch models. While I don't care about touch bar the 2 usb c ports are important. A newer keyboard that is more robust and more quiet is a plus. You would kill the 13" MacBook Air.

 

[Ermir444]

I agree with most posters here, Apple will replace the base 13” nTB MBP with a cheaper, more vanilla version MacBook.

I think they will downgrade the screen quality from P3/500 nits to the 12” MB standart of 300 nits and no P3.

They will also stick in the cheaper 15w Intel CPU with no IRIS graphics and no native thunderbolt support.

The 12” MB 128 gb will become the entry lvl 1k Mac, while the 13” MB 128 gb will ocupy the 1299 spot alongside the 12” MB 256 gb.

I belive the current 2017 13” MBP will be the last chance to get the Pro features such as P3 retina display with 500 nits and the IRIS graphics in the 1299 price range. That is why i purchased one with full apple care about 2 weeks ago.

From october and onwards, the entry level for such pro features will be 1799.

 

[eagerwu]

I agree with most posters here, Apple will replace the base 13” nTB MBP with a cheaper, more vanilla version MacBook.

I think they will downgrade the screen quality from P3/500 nits to the 12” MB standart of 300 nits and no P3.

They will also stick in the cheaper 15w Intel CPU with no IRIS graphics and no native thunderbolt support.

The 12” MB 128 gb will become the entry lvl 1k Mac, while the 13” MB 128 gb will ocupy the 1299 spot alongside the 12” MB 256 gb.

I belive the current 2017 13” MBP will be the last chance to get the Pro features such as P3 retina display with 500 nits and the IRIS graphics in the 1299 price range. That is why i purchased one with full apple care about 2 weeks ago.

From october and onwards, the entry level for such pro features will be 1799.

Why not 2018 if you go for a Pro version?

 

[AppleHaterLover]

Why not 2018 if you go for a Pro version?

The 2018 Pro starts at $1799. I think the issue here is that you will no longer be able to get a MB Pro for $1299 like you have been able to for the past 8+ years, and it seems that Apple will replace it with a "MacBook S" - ultimately an inferior product.

 

[Ermir444]

Why not 2018 if you go for a Pro version?

3 simple reasons:

1. The extra power is not needed for my user case (browsing, MS office, Netflix)
2. I absolutely loathe the TouchBar. Its pixelated and adds a step or two to basic functionality. It will also age pretty bad whereas the FN keys will be timeless.
3. Saved about EUR 500
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The 2018 Pro starts at $1799. I think the issue here is that you will no longer be able to get a MB Pro for $1299 like you have been able to for the past 8+ years, and it seems that Apple will replace it with a "MacBook S" - ultimately an inferior product.

Could not have said it better myself... it will be akin to the iPad. You were able to get the premium features such as the laminated screen, thinner body, best camera on the entry level Air 2. However, once the iPad pro was introduced, all those features went all to a higher price point. The entry level iPad 2017 got downgraded to a inferior screen and bulkier body.

 

[case2001]

3 simple reasons:

1. The extra power is not needed for my user case (browsing, MS office, Netflix)
2. I absolutely loathe the TouchBar. Its pixelated and adds a step or two to basic functionality. It will also age pretty bad whereas the FN keys will be timeless.
3. Saved about EUR 500
[doublepost=1533743247][/doublepost]
Could not have said it better myself... it will be akin to the iPad. You were able to get the premium features such as the laminated screen, thinner body, best camera on the entry level Air 2. However, once the iPad pro was introduced, all those features went all to a higher price point. The entry level iPad 2017 got downgraded to a inferior screen and bulkier body.

I agree. I can't see spending $1800.00 for a Pro for my needs. I really like the Pro screen vs the 12 inch retina screen. I think the nTB is dead starting September and same for the MacBook Air. I keep going back an forth the nTB is all I need, but I am overly worried about the keyboard. I know Apple will repair it but I will be without my machine that I use daily.

My question is why buy today if you don't need it? Wait a few weeks to see what Apple has up it's sleeve. Then you have even more options.

 

[Ermir444]

The 2018 Pro starts at $1799. I think the issue here is that you will no longer be able to get a MB Pro for $1299 like you have been able to for the past 8+ years, and it seems that Apple will replace it with a "MacBook S" - ultimately an inferior product.

I think it will go the same direction as the iPad. You could get all the premium features with the iP Air 2

I agree. I can't see spending $1800.00 for a Pro for my needs. I really like the Pro screen vs the 12 inch retina screen. I think the nTB is dead starting September and same for the MacBook Air. I keep going back an forth the nTB is all I need, but I am overly worried about the keyboard. I know Apple will repair it but I will be without my machine that I use daily.

My question is why buy today if you don't need it? Wait a few weeks to see what Apple has up it's sleeve. Then you have even more options.

I think you should wait and see. The reason i bought it was that i had a friend coming from US and he brought it for me. US price is about 30% cheaper than EU.

Regarding the keyboard, i believe the issue is not as widespread as we think. However, I did buy Apple Care because i know that Apple will most likely replace my machine after 3 major repairs (they did replace my 2009 MBP with a similarly speced 2011 version). Since I have a MBP, they would have to give me another MBP which means im getting the 1800 machine. Im not hoping it happens, but chances are it will, considering that ill probably have at least 1 keyboard repair within 3 years.

 

[Hater]

I wish, all of my heavy lifting is done on a desk with proper monitor, keyboard and mouse, so the 15" screen, TB and touchpad are 95% of the time irrelevant for me.

I want 32GB of RAM, I don't need the i9 but i'll take a half decent i7 with 32GB of RAM in a 13" chassis

I'm not spending $500 for a TB when i'll never use the stupid thing.

 

[waziazi]

I’m pretty sure the Air will be discontinued. The purpose of the air was to make it so slim and light it fit into an envelope. Now that the MacBook meets those specs there really isn’t a need for the Air anymore.

I am curious about a 13 inch MacBook. It doesn’t make much sense for Apple to have a 13 and 12 inch MacBook. That’s a one inch difference.

I find the 12 inch to be too small. Perhaps they will discontinue the 12 inch and make the 13 inch a standard and add some more ports to it. This also kind of makes sense from a manufacturing perspective. They could just use the same displays they already manufacture for the 13 inch pros.

I also believe that they will discontinue the 13 inch non Touch Bar pros and make touchbars standard for the entire pro line. That only leaves the macbook line without Touch Bar’s.

 

[frou]

I am curious about a 13 inch MacBook. It doesn’t make much sense for Apple to have a 13 and 12 inch MacBook. That’s a one inch difference.

I find the 12 inch to be too small. Perhaps they will discontinue the 12 inch and make the 13 inch a standard

The main reason I don't like the 12" MacBook is that it has a goofy screen resolution of 2304x1440 (equivalent to 1152x720 non-Retina). Apple know that this is too cramped, so, out of the box, the GPU is made to render macOS at 2560x1600 and then the image is downsampled to fit on the screen. Yuck!!

 

[calabi-yau]

And any idea when they'll get updated? Did Apple do this staggered MBP update thing in past years too?

Sorry if there's a thread about this already, but I went a few pages back and couldn't find anything.

 

[impulse462]

to further differentiate between the nTB and TB 13" models

 

[calabi-yau]

I was going to guess that they wanted to push out the TB versions first so that people who needed a new MBP would be forced to buy TB versions, after which Apple would be able to trumpet the fact that they're selling tons of TBs, people love the TB, it's a huge hit, etc (meanwhile most long-term reviews I've seen say it's a mostly-useless gimmick). But I figured I was wrong and just being cynical. :/

I'm guessing the more expensive TB models also have higher margins than the non-TBs too.

I'm in the market for a laptop, but don't want the TB. This kinda sucks.

 

[thadoggfather]

They're probably going to make nTB MacBook 13 brand, or discontinue it when they release some kind of a successor imo

but who knows? apple doesn't always make the most sense these days