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Will the retina display destroy gaming on the imac/MBP ?
- Thread starter bo-waleed
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It didn't destroy gaming on the iPad. But those who want to play at full resolution on a 27" retina-screen iMac will need a powerful GPU.
No wait, they will need TWO powerful GPUs...
No wait, they will need TWO powerful GPUs...
well if the iMac 27" ends up being a 1920x1080 that is doubled on each side, as rumored, then you could play games at 1920x1080 and still have it look "ok". You'd also get great performance.
Really wouldn't want OSX treating it like a 1080p monitor in the desktop though...
Really wouldn't want OSX treating it like a 1080p monitor in the desktop though...
When they went Retina in the iPad 3, they boosted the GPU.
I'm hoping if they go Retina, they'll bust out the SLI/Crossfire. That's possible even with mobile processors.
I'm hoping if they go Retina, they'll bust out the SLI/Crossfire. That's possible even with mobile processors.
I don't mind angry birds on my iPhone. But when it comes to buying a new iMac I was hoping to play some more intensive games.
I just can't see retina in iMacs being in any way a good idea.
I am buying a 27" iMac. I want to use that extra desktop real estate. I don't want to emulate the desktop of a 1920x1080 monitor. I want to play games at native resolution not some sort of hodge podge.
A retina display sounds great in theory but in practice? No thanks!
I am buying a 27" iMac. I want to use that extra desktop real estate. I don't want to emulate the desktop of a 1920x1080 monitor. I want to play games at native resolution not some sort of hodge podge.
A retina display sounds great in theory but in practice? No thanks!
This is probably a stupid question but I don't understand hardware that well. If they add in the retina screen for iMacs am I better off with a 2011 for gaming (Diablo/WOW) and photography (Photoshop CS5) b/c the graphics card will not be able to run it well?
I guess what I don't understand is can't I just lower the resolution to the point where the graphics card is capable? If I lowered it to the same resolution as the 2011 macs would it look worse or the same side by side?
I guess what I don't understand is can't I just lower the resolution to the point where the graphics card is capable? If I lowered it to the same resolution as the 2011 macs would it look worse or the same side by side?
you can just lower the resolution, 4 pixels at the Retina display would be used as one pixel
There is no problem with this.
IF the new 27" iMac has a 3840x2160 screen and a single good graphic card like the 7970m, then Photoshop and multiple monitors will be freaking awesome, no worries. Watching movies should be great. You can also play video games in 1920x1080 (1/2 size), and it'll look just as good as a 27" HDTV set or monitor (i.e. great frame rates at high/ultra settings).
Trying to play that game at the current 2560 by 1440 will play better, but look worse (Blurry/jagged) because of scaling issues inherent to all LCD monitors. Trying to play it at 3840x2160 is probably going to need you to scale back the graphic enhancements to get it decent frame rates.
You could also plug in any external monitor and run it at the native resolution of THAT monitor, instead of the main screen.
Short answer I'm not all that worried.
Yes and no.
In Windows, you could go for "half" the Retina resolution and get no scaling and decent performance. In the current iMac that's not possible because you downgrade to 1024x768 which looks horrible. And anything else looks scaled.
In Windows, current iMacs, you can enable "Centered scaling" in the ATI Catalyst Control Center, in order to add black bars and maintain clean graphics without scaling artifacts, while gaining some FPS.
Furthermore, you can create custom resolutions with RCRM.exe (Radeon Custom Resolution Manager). For example I added 2240x1260 (16:9) and 2080x1300 (16:10) in order to have a step between the small-ish 1920x1080 (when non scaled) and the native 2560. Thought after trying this I figured, heck, may as play in a window for faster alt-tabbing. So I also get 2240x1260 window resolution which is not normally available.
All this to say, if the Retina display were to happen, you lose all these options. In particular, there is no "200% scaling + Centered scaling" that I am aware of, so centered scaling for performance gain is no longer available, as the centered view would be very small.
What would be left is either
* Running the game at exactly half the Retina res.
* Running game at lower resolutions with scaling artifacts which may be less glaring due to the higher resolution. Still probably sucky for games like MMOs that have lots of tiny text in chat windows, where scaling can be seen.
In Windows, you could go for "half" the Retina resolution and get no scaling and decent performance. In the current iMac that's not possible because you downgrade to 1024x768 which looks horrible. And anything else looks scaled.
In Windows, current iMacs, you can enable "Centered scaling" in the ATI Catalyst Control Center, in order to add black bars and maintain clean graphics without scaling artifacts, while gaining some FPS.
Furthermore, you can create custom resolutions with RCRM.exe (Radeon Custom Resolution Manager). For example I added 2240x1260 (16:9) and 2080x1300 (16:10) in order to have a step between the small-ish 1920x1080 (when non scaled) and the native 2560. Thought after trying this I figured, heck, may as play in a window for faster alt-tabbing. So I also get 2240x1260 window resolution which is not normally available.
All this to say, if the Retina display were to happen, you lose all these options. In particular, there is no "200% scaling + Centered scaling" that I am aware of, so centered scaling for performance gain is no longer available, as the centered view would be very small.
What would be left is either
* Running the game at exactly half the Retina res.
* Running game at lower resolutions with scaling artifacts which may be less glaring due to the higher resolution. Still probably sucky for games like MMOs that have lots of tiny text in chat windows, where scaling can be seen.
Have faith, Apple won't disappoint!
A lot of talk here about tiny text and slow performance with extra pixel counts that retina will bring. Have some faith that Apple will deliver something extraordinary. Will we need powerful GPUs to handle the extra pixel pushing to drive 2D GUI-driven tasks? Somewhat. To handle the extra work in 3D/full screen apps? Certainly. I highly doubt Apple would proudly announce "New sparkling, crisp, unmatched superior displays, now with shearing, laggy graphics and tiny, unreadable text!"
The last time the industry focused this much on display resolution was the mid 90's, when the VGA standard was giving way to the SVGA and then XGA that is still technically in use today. Monitors were tube/analog then, so the race from 13" to 15" to 17" was on, as video cards were now capable of displaying 1024x768 on the same screen as the 640x480 that everyone was accustomed to. Text became totally unreadable as people tried higher resolutions. But then, the OS matured to compensate for this. It became a simple matter for the user to change the default / system font sizes for different resolutions, obviating this problem.
I think if retina is really here for the entire Mac line, Apple will include support at the OS level to easily change font size as resolutions are increased. It would actually be somewhat trivial to calculate physical dimensions into it, so that as PPI increased, the fonts would scale to be the same physical size.
And Apple will make sure that the GPUs are beefed enough to AT LEAST give us equivalent performance to the 2011 GPUs running on their standard resolutions, if not faster for a boost in framerate at retina resolution.
Only time will tell.
A lot of talk here about tiny text and slow performance with extra pixel counts that retina will bring. Have some faith that Apple will deliver something extraordinary. Will we need powerful GPUs to handle the extra pixel pushing to drive 2D GUI-driven tasks? Somewhat. To handle the extra work in 3D/full screen apps? Certainly. I highly doubt Apple would proudly announce "New sparkling, crisp, unmatched superior displays, now with shearing, laggy graphics and tiny, unreadable text!"
The last time the industry focused this much on display resolution was the mid 90's, when the VGA standard was giving way to the SVGA and then XGA that is still technically in use today. Monitors were tube/analog then, so the race from 13" to 15" to 17" was on, as video cards were now capable of displaying 1024x768 on the same screen as the 640x480 that everyone was accustomed to. Text became totally unreadable as people tried higher resolutions. But then, the OS matured to compensate for this. It became a simple matter for the user to change the default / system font sizes for different resolutions, obviating this problem.
I think if retina is really here for the entire Mac line, Apple will include support at the OS level to easily change font size as resolutions are increased. It would actually be somewhat trivial to calculate physical dimensions into it, so that as PPI increased, the fonts would scale to be the same physical size.
And Apple will make sure that the GPUs are beefed enough to AT LEAST give us equivalent performance to the 2011 GPUs running on their standard resolutions, if not faster for a boost in framerate at retina resolution.
Only time will tell.
Well said. Everything else will be a great surprise. If retina happens, Apple has a great way to handle it for us.
If an iPad with a lower power processor can drive 2048x1536 without much problem, a 'real' GPU should be able to handle doubled iMac resolutions in 2D without breaking a sweat. For 3D you'll just run at a 'lower' resolution - like the half resolution, or maybe even less depending on the game (some stuff has trouble with 2560x1440 on my 27", even with the 6970)
IMAO resolutions don't actually look too bad once the ratio is >2:1 (even 1.5:1 seems okay), and with the tiny retinal pixels you'll probably be fine. I use to game at 800x600, 1280x800, and even 1600x1200 on my old 20" 2048x1536 LCD display and they all looked acceptable to my eyes.
IMAO resolutions don't actually look too bad once the ratio is >2:1 (even 1.5:1 seems okay), and with the tiny retinal pixels you'll probably be fine. I use to game at 800x600, 1280x800, and even 1600x1200 on my old 20" 2048x1536 LCD display and they all looked acceptable to my eyes.
After posting here I glanced at my iPad 3 on a stand next to the 27 inch, and realized we're getting carried away: the iPad 3 screen could fit about 6 times in the area of the 27 Inch screen!
The 27 inch resolution looks just fine at a comfortable reading distance. Pixels are not as big as, say, the Syncmaster 1680 LCD that my father uses.
I just think it would be nuts right now to go Retina on a 27 inch screen size. Too early, and unnecessary. The performance loss tradeoff isn't worth it.
Not only that but if you use an iPad 3 you may have noticed the brightness is greater due to the pixel density. There is no spacing/grid between pixels to darken the colours. Therefore, the iMac 27 inch would be even brighter than it is now.
On a laptop it makes sense to me. You're working on a smaller screen, and the increase in sharpness and readability of the text would make it easier to work with more text on the screen. It is a direct usability improvement. Not so on a 27 inch iMac, there is just no need for it.
In a year or two it would make more sense.
What real world use cases are there for Retina 27 inch display right now?
The 27 inch resolution looks just fine at a comfortable reading distance. Pixels are not as big as, say, the Syncmaster 1680 LCD that my father uses.
I just think it would be nuts right now to go Retina on a 27 inch screen size. Too early, and unnecessary. The performance loss tradeoff isn't worth it.
Not only that but if you use an iPad 3 you may have noticed the brightness is greater due to the pixel density. There is no spacing/grid between pixels to darken the colours. Therefore, the iMac 27 inch would be even brighter than it is now.
On a laptop it makes sense to me. You're working on a smaller screen, and the increase in sharpness and readability of the text would make it easier to work with more text on the screen. It is a direct usability improvement. Not so on a 27 inch iMac, there is just no need for it.
In a year or two it would make more sense.
What real world use cases are there for Retina 27 inch display right now?
Developing iPad apps for the new iPad in X-Code's Interface Builder without scrolling.
Nothing else really comes to mind at the moment . . .
Developing iPad apps for the new iPad in X-Code's Interface Builder without scrolling.
Nothing else really comes to mind at the moment . . .
That will be sweet.
Complete gaming noob here, but most of the textures are pretty low res anyway, usually as a result of being developed for consoles. I notice when running games at 1920x1080 on my PC, huge parts of the textures are blurry as hell. At most the textures will be 1920x1080, so will it put a strain running at higher resolutions?
Anyone who buys a computer as a gaming rig is in a need of help
The high-end iMac makes a good gaming machine. Haven't found a game it would struggle with yet. Running Diablo3 and GW2 beta both at 1440p and maxed out settings, really all I care about. Games like ME3 also run at 1440p with medium/high settings, looking great.