Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?

[gusping]

I saw that and I was like For Fusion Sake!

I hope this does not indicate crazy prices for GPU upgrades for the upcoming iMac. Almost $900 here in Canada for 5600? Are they for real?

I love a bit of For Fusion Sake! 😂 Hello, Freida! Good to see you again.

 

[Freida]

Not only that but there are lot of issues with that concept and certainly it doesn't have Apple's language.

I'm always amazed by these concept artists that have the skill to make it and yet they lack the understanding of what Apple's design language is. There are exceptions though (like Martin Hajek does nice concepts) but more often than not these artists just don't get it or they purposefully created something their own and ignore Apple's language.
Either way, I hardly see anything that is good design.

So yeah, that concept is wrong and we won't be getting that. 🙂

It's definitely a render. Not the real thing. Not to impugn the work someone put into it - it's a nice artistic work, but someone's concept nonetheless.

 

[Azrael9]

I bought the Mini late 2018 when my Macbook pro broke down, so I've gotten a lot of daily use out of it since then. I paid about 3000 USD for it, the specs are in my signature. Paid around 1000 USD for the monitor. Let's say an eGpu would cost me another 500-1000 USD... If an 32" iMac costs about 5000 USD well, that would suck.

I also chose the specs of the Mini for another purpose than what I ended up using it for, so the 1TB storage was a complete waste. Life had other plans for me!

I love, and always will love, the design of the Mini + space grey keyboard and trackpad. This is the kind of flawless design language that I respect Appple for. They would have to get the iMac redesign right for me to have second thoughts

The 31,5" inch size is perfect for me for several reasons. I would choose this setup over a redesgined 27" iMac for sure. Also considering using a Ps5 with this monitor which I understand would not work with an iMac.

Oh well, I'm always anxious about big tech decisions. Perhaps I will feel better about the situation in a week 🙂

I think the base model Mini makes sense as a product. Perfect and silent for browsing, office work etc. It's when you try to "go pro" with it that things start to fall a part from a design perspective. I had no idea the iGpu was so weak when I bought it

Yeah. iGPU. Live and learn. The Mini's Achilles heel.

I see. I get where you're coming from now. Seeing how much you sank into the Mac Mini and the 32 incher. You're 'all in.'

If you buy an RDNA2 in September with eGPU. You'll have a dream set up. I wouldn't even think about the iMac set up. You're invested in the Mac Mini. You like the design and look (and it does look great...)

I was just expecting (when all the rumours said it was going 'Pro' with the update) that it would get more height and include a GPU in there. ie. Next Cube style. Never mind.

But with how much you've invested in that set up, I'd go the extra distance and eGPU it. In style. And you'll save far more money doing that than trying to buy a new iMac anything.

eg. RDNA 6700XT successor...probably in the £450 price range plus eGPU caddy for £200-ish. £600-700. Alot cheaper than that Macbook pro gpu 'upgrade' and way cheaper than buying a new iMac.

The Mini is good enough for a great many things that were once the province of Mac Towers. Eg. Photoshop. It can render video. But 3d is a weakspot. But any eGPU solves that. Especially in Sept' with RDNA2. For £600-700 you'll have a system that will beat the daylights out of that base Mac Pro for £6k.

Azrael.

 

[Dave245]

Now that Apple have updated the MacBook Pro 16” with new graphics, I wonder if that means they won’t update it at WWDC, instead it gives them more time to announce new iMacs. Get the smaller updates out the way first.

 

[pldelisle]

I personally bet Apple will have soldered RAM in this model, just like virtually everything else except Mac Pro and Mac mini, and especially if it has the iPad Pro design language.
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RDNA 6700XT successor...probably in the £450 price range plus eGPU caddy for £200-ish. £600-700. Alot cheaper than that Macbook pro gpu 'upgrade' and way cheaper than buying a new iMac.

But with use cases which requires a lot of Host/device bandwidth, you want the internal GPU with PCi-Ex16 link.

But kinda agree with this. If 6 core is ok for you, adding an RDNA2 eGPU to Mac mini can clearly help at some use cases.

 

[gusping]

True, but let os get a new iMac first and then complain about the price and value 😉 .

No! I love complaining about Macs. It’s one of the few things I am good at...

 

[Azrael9]

Not only that but there are lot of issues with that concept and certainly it doesn't have Apple's language.

I'm always amazed by these concept artists that have the skill to make it and yet they lack the understanding of what Apple's design language is. There are exceptions though (like Martin Hajek does nice concepts) but more often than not these artists just don't get it or they purposefully created something their own and ignore Apple's language.
Either way, I hardly see anything that is good design.

So yeah, that concept is wrong and we won't be getting that. 🙂

Where are my manners, Hello Freida. Welcome back. 🙂

What I like about the Twitter 'leak' is that the XDR/iPad monitor is consistent with the rumour. But on some of the 'design concepts' eg at What the Fusion Sakes Tech' have the old iMac 'foot' with the new iPad/XDR monitor look.

And to me, that seems incongruous. I think all of the 'new' iMac. Will be 'new'. I doubt we'll have legacy design aspects.

Eg. I think the chin is a gonna.

Azrael.

 

[gusping]

But with use cases which requires a lot of Host/device bandwidth, you want the internal GPU with PCi-Ex16 link.

What type of use cases require this? I’m a noob with eGPUs.

 

[jetjaguar]

From that rendered pic posted a couple pages back .. the imac looks huge .. I hope that it is 32" but I think it would be the imac pro that goes 32" first.

 

[Azrael9]

I personally bet Apple will have soldered RAM in this model, just like virtually everything else except Mac Pro and Mac mini, and especially if it has the iPad Pro design language.
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But with use cases which requires a lot of Host/device bandwidth, you want the internal GPU with PCi-Ex16 link.

But kinda agree with this. If 6 core is ok for you, adding an RDNA2 eGPU to Mac mini can clearly help at some use cases.

Ram SLOT is a gonna.

6 core. Depends on what work he's doing. 6 core with higher clocks will make the old quad core seem anaemic. Still get respectable 3d render speeds with that vs 8 core. It will just take a 'bit' longer. Again. Depends on work load. But anything 2d, he should be fine.

As for 3D?

He'll last alot longer against those star destroyers than he will against that Battle station...with that RDNA2.

Azrael.

 

[gusping]

FaceID is coming...?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1272535744750350336

 

[Freida]

If we get completely new design then there is a chance for access but yeah, its a possibility to lose it.
In all honesty, I don't mind losing it if Apple prices the upgrades in reasonable and competitive pricing structure.
Currently their ram upgrades are pretty much double or more and that to me is pure greed/insult so I want ram door.
Unfortunately, I think Apple is so out of touch these days with reality AND tons of people are stupid enough to fall for it then VALUE is not there anymore. We don't have to go that far to see. Mac Pro base config is pretty much overpriced disaster. It used to be different. In the past, you could buy base config of Mac Pro and you would get a good deal. Sure it would have Apple's premium but you wouldn't mind as you got nice value. Now? HAHAHAHAHA, not even close 🙂

I personally bet Apple will have soldered RAM in this model, just like virtually everything else except Mac Pro and Mac mini, and especially if it has the iPad Pro design language.
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But with use cases which requires a lot of Host/device bandwidth, you want the internal GPU with PCi-Ex16 link.

But kinda agree with this. If 6 core is ok for you, adding an RDNA2 eGPU to Mac mini can clearly help at some use cases.

 

[Azrael9]

What type of use cases require this? I’m a noob with eGPUs.

Sonnet. Razor. Are the ones that stand out. Apple sold the 1st one, I think. So it was initially Apple approved. And Razor speak for themselves. Good design and sound price.

There are plenty of others though.

Some of which will allow you to have an EXTRA gpu in there in the caddy...

Azrael.

 

[Freida]

That I can see. It would be weird not to have it especially as Apple is highlighting security and privacy and all their other devices have it.

FaceID is coming...?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1272535744750350336

 

[gusping]

Sonnet. Razor. Are the ones that stand out. Apple sold the 1st one, I think. So it was initially Apple approved. And Razor speak for themselves. Good design and sound price.

There are plenty of others though.

Some of which will allow you to slow an EXTRA gpu in there in the caddy...

Azrael.

Sorry, I should have been clearer. I meant which heavy graphics use cases require a low latency etc, that you only get using internal PCIE connected GPUs.

The Razer Core X seems to be the best - cheap (for an eGPU) and has a good power rating.

 

[Azrael9]

With these prices you might soon reach entry level price for Mac Pro. Maybe thats where Apple is heading.
Everything super expensive.

I find it alarming that you can only get a 13 inch laptop from Apple for less than £2k. And right up to that price.

And you can only get a bigger one (...) by paying over(!) that 2k.

The Mini got a price bump by £2-300 from it's former 'affordable' price range.

Er. The Mac Pro....*(bursts out laughing...)*

Azrael.

 

[gusping]

That I can see. It would be weird not to have it especially as Apple is highlighting security and privacy and all their other devices have it.

Would you say, FOR FUSION SAKE, if the iMac was revealed without FaceID? 😉

 

[CWallace]

I am guessing the EEC number does not apply to the new GPU option for the MacBook Pro 16 since it is a BTO option and not a model. So it's still in theory open for a new iMac.


As for FaceID, why not put it in the MacBook line first? They already have the integrated T2 chip. One would think the MBP 16 could have launched with it.

Or will FaceID be a differentiator for the ARM Macs?

 

[pldelisle]

What type of use cases require this? I’m a noob with eGPUs.

Machine learning is one for example. A lot of data travel back and forth from host to device. Weights stay on the device, but batches of images must be sent over PCI-E link every optimization iterations. The low PCI-E latency is a must. Batches of images, depending of the size, can be several GB if your GPU allows it (above 16 GB or on-board memory we begin to talk...).

 

[HeavyMantra]

Yeah. iGPU. Live and learn. The Mini's Achilles heel.

I see. I get where you're coming from now. Seeing how much you sank into the Mac Mini and the 32 incher. You're 'all in.'

If you buy an RDNA2 in September with eGPU. You'll have a dream set up. I wouldn't even think about the iMac set up. You're invested in the Mac Mini. You like the design and look (and it does look great...)

I was just expecting (when all the rumours said it was going 'Pro' with the update) that it would get more height and include a GPU in there. ie. Next Cube style. Never mind.

But with how much you've invested in that set up, I'd go the extra distance and eGPU it. In style. And you'll save far more money doing that than trying to buy a new iMac anything.

eg. RDNA 6700XT successor...probably in the £450 price range plus eGPU caddy for £200-ish. £600-700. Alot cheaper than that Macbook pro gpu 'upgrade' and way cheaper than buying a new iMac.

The Mini is good enough for a great many things that were once the province of Mac Towers. Eg. Photoshop. It can render video. But 3d is a weakspot. But any eGPU solves that. Especially in Sept' with RDNA2. For £600-700 you'll have a system that will beat the daylights out of that base Mac Pro for £6k.

Azrael.

Yes I missed my personal sweet spot for graphics specs. I don't need a powerful gpu at all, but it would be nice if I could watch 4k video without the fans going crazy, and play some 3D games although a PS5 would pretty much eliminate that need. And a powerful eGpu + bootcamp could work for gaming as well

Also, I have no idea how loud the fans in an iMac are. I'm just imagining that an iMac with a better iGpu would be more silent than the Mini under load. Placed 1m away, the mini makes no audible sound unless I press it a lot and that's great

Thanks for your input, it makes me feel a bit better about the whole situation. I wish the wait for the new iMac would be over already so that I can sleep easier 🙂

 

[noobinator]

Can't wait to see the announcement.

Any chance Apple has or will ever design a keyboard for the iMac with backlighting and/or touch ID? Or a windows hello type face login would be great as well.

 

[gusping]

Machine learning is one for example. A lot of data travel back and forth from host to device. Weights stay on the device, but batches of images must be sent over PCI-E link every optimization iterations. The low PCI-E latency is a must. Batches of images, depending of the size, can be several GB if your GPU allows it (above 16 GB or on-board memory we begin to talk...).

Thanks! Very interesting. Is host here, the CPU, and the device, a GPU?

 

[Azrael9]

Sorry, I should have been clearer. I meant which heavy graphics use cases require a low latency etc, that you only get using internal PCIE connected GPUs.

The Razer Core X seems to be the best - cheap (for an eGPU) and has a good power rating.

From what I can tell. If you're using the eGPU in a 'straight line' eg. Gaming or rendering. You'll get 'most' (not all, TB limitations...) of the gpu performance. About 90%. Give or take.

For some things it can be more choppy. To run any gpu 100% efficiently, you have to run it internally. That's why I'd like the Mac Mini to have some dGPU for the scenario outlined. ie. For the 'task' the eGPU drops because eg. the app isn't optimised or the process isn't optimised.

Eg. I don't mind, now, that the new iMac has RDNA1. It occured to me, for super heavy lifting? I'll eGPU the RDNA2 for any super serious stuff or to reduce the burden on the iMac's cooling system. And that will still run me alot cheaper than that mind warp called the Mac Pro.

Somebody who knows a bit more in detail can probably chime in. The notion is, some processes can be optimised (it's still a young tech' in general and it still has 'some' way to go on Macs to be completely bullet proof for all apps.) for eGPU and some aren't.

But for gpu rendering? Games. Should be fine. Heavy lifting in 'serious' apps like Final Cut's preview window...does the eGPU help in that regard? Is Final Cut optimised for eGPU? I've heard rumours of the Mini's iG chugging with that.

Azrael.
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Would you say, FOR FUSION SAKE, if the iMac was revealed without FaceID? 😉

They better put a 1080 camera in that. G'dman skinflints.

Azrael.
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From that rendered pic posted a couple pages back .. the imac looks huge .. I hope that it is 32" but I think it would be the imac pro that goes 32" first.

The iMac Pro 'super tanker' and the '27' inch iMac may be one and the same...

But I'm right with you on 32 inches. Every inch of it. 😛

Azrael.

 

[xgman]

Well, think of it this way then. Even the top of the line 2020 imac will seem like an unbelievable bargain in comparison to any mac pro and pro monitor combination.

 

[Azrael9]

Yes I missed my personal sweet spot for graphics specs. I don't need a powerful gpu at all, but it would be nice if I could watch 4k video without the fans going crazy, and play some 3D games although a PS5 would pretty much eliminate that need. And a powerful eGpu + bootcamp could work for gaming as well

Also, I have no idea how loud the fans in an iMac are. I'm just imagining that an iMac with a better iGpu would be more silent than the Mini under load. Placed 1m away, the mini makes no audible sound unless I press it a lot and that's great

Thanks for your input, it makes me feel a bit better about the whole situation. I wish the wait for the new iMac would be over already so that I can sleep easier 🙂

No problem. I've been through the same thought process re: Mini vs iMac. That's because Apple don't do a Mac Tower like they use'ta.

You want to game? This year is the time to get a 2080 Ti class performance (£1200) with crazy IO throughput and lightning fast SSD. Probably £399.

(Did you see the PS5 live stream? :O )

And no PC is going to beat that package and certainly not at that price...THIS year.

PS5. A 4k TV. Good night Vienna to the competition.

You can enjoy the iMac announcement knowing you've got a great set up. And that to beat the iMac you only have to spend £700. Not £1700 just to get on the ladder. And chances are, you'll still have the 'bigger' monitor.

Though I'm still hoping for a 32 inch iMac to say, 'Hello.'

Azrael.
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Well, think of it this way then. Even the top of the line 2020 imac will seem like an unbelievable bargain in comparison to any mac pro and pro monitor combination.

True dat. 😛

Azrael.