At this point I agree. The aggressiveness of transition to ARM was more than I thought. The performance of the A12Z (well and 16 Gb RAM) MacOS running apps was surprising. If Apple think they can replace their entire stack with AS CPU in two years, why bother redesigning the iMac?
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Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?
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FrankySavvy
macrumors 68000
Just like the 2016 MacBook Pro was designed ahead of the Intel release schedule, I believe so was the 2020 iMac redesign. It was designed for 10nm Intel chips which due to sky lake and roadmap delays, Apple decided to begin to design its own chips but the new redesign was already being engineered. The new redesign can house both the new Intel and apples ARM chips - that shouldn’t be that hard to believe.
On one hand, it makes sense to unveil a new iMac design with the new silicon.
But if we're 5-6 months away, an Intel-based Mac without a redesign won't fly off the shelves. It would be a quiet bump to 10th gen Intel chip, and no one will blink an eye.
However, a new form factor would not only sell more iMacs, but also suggest Apple's commitment to supporting Intel Macs for years to come.
Frankly, outside of developers and us here on MacRumors, the average consumer won't care what's inside the Mac. Intel or Apple silicon won't matter as long as it gets the job done. Apple will be transparent, but wants the message to be that a Mac is a Mac, regardless of what's inside.
But if we're 5-6 months away, an Intel-based Mac without a redesign won't fly off the shelves. It would be a quiet bump to 10th gen Intel chip, and no one will blink an eye.
However, a new form factor would not only sell more iMacs, but also suggest Apple's commitment to supporting Intel Macs for years to come.
Frankly, outside of developers and us here on MacRumors, the average consumer won't care what's inside the Mac. Intel or Apple silicon won't matter as long as it gets the job done. Apple will be transparent, but wants the message to be that a Mac is a Mac, regardless of what's inside.
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They will never ever promote a new redesign with an old Intel CPU after announcing the transition to Apple Silicon...
I think we will get the last 2-3 Intel mac updates in the next 1-2 months and that's it. Maybe old iMac with new internals. Of course they will be supported many years.
I think we will get the last 2-3 Intel mac updates in the next 1-2 months and that's it. Maybe old iMac with new internals. Of course they will be supported many years.
Voyageur
macrumors 6502
anthony13
macrumors 65816
I feel like i’m sensing that a number of people aren’t aware of how large institutional purchases of machines can also affect hardware strategies. Banks, schools, hospitals just to name a few, purchase these machines on economic schedules. These are the same types of institutions likely to be using very unique ‘niche’ software that is typically slow to update. Meaning, it might be a year until there are native versions of their app’s for Apple silicon. They look for machines they can drop right into their networks without training and minimal IT help. And often, they have a VERY finite lifespan. One of the computer labs where I teach bought brand new loaded iMac’s two years ago. There is a sticker on the back of each one with an EOL (end of life) marked as 2022. 4 year lifespan.
This is all to say, no one can be sure what Apple is planning, but I would wager Intel Apple‘s still have a very large client list. Apple can’t replace their entire line so fast, and know they have to support the existing buying cycle so they don’t burn them and scare them away from their next purchase. The thought that Apple wont update the iMac simply because it doesnt ‘make sense’ on face value, is perhaps a bit misinformed (only perhaps, again, no one knows). These machines will not be DOA, because they will continue to work for years and years. Message board bragging rights aside, a loaded 2020 iMac will still be a capable machine in 2025.
One last thought, regardless, i hope Apple does enable display target mode, so that once these rumored iMac’s do lose their computing purpose, they still hold value as a display.
This is all to say, no one can be sure what Apple is planning, but I would wager Intel Apple‘s still have a very large client list. Apple can’t replace their entire line so fast, and know they have to support the existing buying cycle so they don’t burn them and scare them away from their next purchase. The thought that Apple wont update the iMac simply because it doesnt ‘make sense’ on face value, is perhaps a bit misinformed (only perhaps, again, no one knows). These machines will not be DOA, because they will continue to work for years and years. Message board bragging rights aside, a loaded 2020 iMac will still be a capable machine in 2025.
One last thought, regardless, i hope Apple does enable display target mode, so that once these rumored iMac’s do lose their computing purpose, they still hold value as a display.
They did introduce a redesign when they switched from powerpc to intel.
Switching to a new design might be a marketing move to show that they are still taking intel serious for the time being.
Still don´t desperate care for a new design.
Voyageur
macrumors 6502
If I'm not mistaken, at the moment, the built-in displays of iMac cannot be used as a separate monitor.
Let’s say they’ll shorten the bezels as on MBP16, will this be considered a redesign? For me personally, no.
xgman
macrumors 603
seems logical to me.. but so much is on the table right now that anything is possible. He did say intel macs in the pipeline, so why wouldn't they have just done the bump already if it was not redesigned? Anyway, nothing would surprise me at this point.
ksodell
macrumors member
Great post! I agree with how institutions will have invested a great amount of $ on the Intel-based Mac environment. Apple won't leave them hanging! And it WILL take time to move a lot of apps over to ARM.
Lastly, I SO hope that you are right about using old iMacs as monitors for new iMacs! That would be great for current consumers, but unlikely for Apple to do. Ol' Bottom Line Tim is always looking to increase revenue. Repurposing iMacs = no revenue (read LOWER DIVIDENDS and LOWER BONUSES for execs!).
Its not but if you go through this thread you will see that we have been using this "shipping times" indicator for the past 2 months so at which point will we say - ok, that is not the right one? iPad had the same delays and it doesn't mean we get another one. Its just the situation.
Of course, more time it passes more it will become reality at some point (broken clock) but that doesn't mean its the right approach. If it happened just recently then yeah, absolutely. In the past it used to be a good indicator but not this time (for obvious reasons).
So yeah, after 2 months of delays and still having delays, iPad Pro having almost the same delays => I disregard that indicator and value other ones.
Sure, in few weeks we will get the update especially if it was cancelled last minute but ......(see above)
I agree with this one. They 27" Intel will get a redesign that will work for intel and next year for ARM. It really is that simple. If there was just spec bump I doubt Tim would be so "optimistic" and rumours would be mounting so much about redesign.
I know Tim is always "great pipeline" crap but this time I see the difference.
So, yeah - 27" will be redesigned and they will use that redesign for ARM too. Its also logical -> redesign Intel - people buy as its new and fresh and they kinda forget about ARM. Then ARM will arrive next year on the same design and people will feel its the good old iMac. In this case it will be familiarity that will drive it also. Psychological thing.
Of course, more time it passes more it will become reality at some point (broken clock) but that doesn't mean its the right approach. If it happened just recently then yeah, absolutely. In the past it used to be a good indicator but not this time (for obvious reasons).
So yeah, after 2 months of delays and still having delays, iPad Pro having almost the same delays => I disregard that indicator and value other ones.
Sure, in few weeks we will get the update especially if it was cancelled last minute but ......(see above)
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I agree with this one. They 27" Intel will get a redesign that will work for intel and next year for ARM. It really is that simple. If there was just spec bump I doubt Tim would be so "optimistic" and rumours would be mounting so much about redesign.
I know Tim is always "great pipeline" crap but this time I see the difference.
So, yeah - 27" will be redesigned and they will use that redesign for ARM too. Its also logical -> redesign Intel - people buy as its new and fresh and they kinda forget about ARM. Then ARM will arrive next year on the same design and people will feel its the good old iMac. In this case it will be familiarity that will drive it also. Psychological thing.
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No, they didn't. What makes you say that? In fact they used the same case design for iMac, Mac Pro, Mac Mini and MacBook Pro for several generations after the switch. iMac had the same design two generations after iMac G5 until mid 2007. Mac Pro had the same design five generations after Power Mac G5 until late 2013. Mac Mini had the same design 5 generations after iMac G4 until mid 2010. MacBook Pro had the same design 7 generations after PowerBook G4 until late 2008.
iMac 27" redesign incoming. To redesign something at Apple it takes months if not years and I doubt they were betting on ARM to be the one getting it as Apple could easily postpone the transition announcement if something wasn't going well. So the redesign was (is) intended for Intel which we will soon find out. 🙂
It just wouldn't make sense to put all your eggs in one basket especially when at Apple. Remember how long it took them to do Mac Pro? Especially from the announcement that they are working on it? And when they said that they are working on it it wasn't like they've just started a month ago. It probably was in development for a bit also.
So those that reject the idea of intel redesign, do you really think the redesign that has been planned ahead is now cancelled just because ARM got green light? Apple Silicon will need cooling etc. also so I'm gonna bet that they have redesigned it to work with Intel now and ARM later. For Intel now it will be just to "work" but for AS to be just to blow our socks off.
Simple spec bumps would happen ages ago. This is going to be more. If anything, Apple will want to show us that they still care about Intel so ****** spec bump wouldn't work here.
It just wouldn't make sense to put all your eggs in one basket especially when at Apple. Remember how long it took them to do Mac Pro? Especially from the announcement that they are working on it? And when they said that they are working on it it wasn't like they've just started a month ago. It probably was in development for a bit also.
So those that reject the idea of intel redesign, do you really think the redesign that has been planned ahead is now cancelled just because ARM got green light? Apple Silicon will need cooling etc. also so I'm gonna bet that they have redesigned it to work with Intel now and ARM later. For Intel now it will be just to "work" but for AS to be just to blow our socks off.
Simple spec bumps would happen ages ago. This is going to be more. If anything, Apple will want to show us that they still care about Intel so ****** spec bump wouldn't work here.
I don't know if you're referring to my post but I was simply stating the fact that DrRadons comment was wrong and Apple didn't redesign almost any of their product cases for several generations after switching to Intel in 2006. How it's going to be this time can be a different story.
FrankySavvy
macrumors 68000
My point exactly! Just like Ming Chi Kuo said, a Q3 Intel Redesigned iMac is launching, I am thinking/hoping July. Perhaps, then we see the ARM Macs at the end of the year, early 2021- which will include the iMac as well.
TBH I want the last generation iMac with Intel chips. As much as Apple Silicon sounds amazing and it will be! I am nervous to be an early adopter, I still love boot camping to Windows for gaming.
ksodell
macrumors member
I'm torn about being a late adopter of the last Intel-stuff, or an early adopter of AS-based hardware. I usually don't like to be the first to buy new tech. But most of the apps I run on my mid-2011 iMac 27" are published by either Apple or Microsoft. I'm a pretty 'vanilla' user - nothing high end like Maya. Per WWDC, both companies already have their software ready for AS.
The more I read and watch about AS, the more I like it... and will for years to come. So maybe I will dive in right away!
A redesign may come yet. I do not see a problem with co-existence of the two lines but I assume "transition is finished in two years" mean the whole stack but did anyone at the Keynote say Apple definitely will stop selling Intel base Mac after that? No they did not.
They essentially promised desktop performance in the power envelope of a laptop according to the graph so an 1.5 cm deep iMac Air with iPP design running at 30-40W and having the performance of mid-range 27 inch or MBP16 would do the trick to demonstrate that point.
If AS performs as supposed to, Apple can gently cut the cord i two years time using a 2.7 cm thick redesigned case with Intel/AMD components that comes next month (or not 😉 ).
I'm with you on this one but I hope the iMac will come august/september as that gives us a chance for RDNA2.
IF RDNA2 is not happening then they might as well drop it tomorrow 🙂
As for early adopter, I think the same HOWEVER in this case I think I might be ok. Why? Because they've had these chips in iPhones and iPads for many years so I'm confident that they know what they are doing and the first ARM Mac will be awesome compared to Intel. And don't get me started on 2nd Gen which will make Intel look like an amateur.
Its really sad how lazy Intel became. Intel was the king for many many years and now (actually few years ago) they are dying and soon there will be no Intel unless they wake the Fusion UP! 🙂
I think it will be too late. AS will be the future for now until new tech arrives. The dominance of Apple starts here.
Future is looking awesome 🙂
IF RDNA2 is not happening then they might as well drop it tomorrow 🙂
As for early adopter, I think the same HOWEVER in this case I think I might be ok. Why? Because they've had these chips in iPhones and iPads for many years so I'm confident that they know what they are doing and the first ARM Mac will be awesome compared to Intel. And don't get me started on 2nd Gen which will make Intel look like an amateur.
Its really sad how lazy Intel became. Intel was the king for many many years and now (actually few years ago) they are dying and soon there will be no Intel unless they wake the Fusion UP! 🙂
I think it will be too late. AS will be the future for now until new tech arrives. The dominance of Apple starts here.
Future is looking awesome 🙂
Apple will update some Macs one more time and thats it. After that its over for Intel. After 2 years time there will be no Intel. Its that simple.
2 years transition means just that. In 2 years all products will be on AS and from that point onwards only AS!
I'm personally curious about new Mac Pro as that is where the performance will really show and I think that will be the last thing that gets updated. Exciting! 🙂
oh dear
2 years transition means just that. In 2 years all products will be on AS and from that point onwards only AS!
I'm personally curious about new Mac Pro as that is where the performance will really show and I think that will be the last thing that gets updated. Exciting! 🙂
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oh dear
ksodell
macrumors member
I've been rooting for AMD for literally YEARS to finally build something reliable that knocks Intel off its pedestal. Finally they are building amazing CPUs that make us question using ho-hum Intel products. But alas, Apple chooses to travel a different path. And we are the winners for that! I'm really starting to get excited about AS-based iMacs... and the direction Apple is going. I might have to buy some stock - wish I had when they were a little cheaper!
Anyone want to buy some Intel stock? I also have a bridge to sell... 🙂
CWallace
macrumors G5
Same reason they did in 2019 and 2017 - new Intel CPUs and new AMD GPUs to put into it?
Fred Zed
macrumors 603
Ok thanks for the clarification. But there was a two year gap in between updates.