Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?

[Freida]

The reality is that 2020 model won't be that much faster over 2019 model unless they get the good stuff.
Intel CPUs itself will not provide much gain and those extra 2 cores may or may not make a big difference.
Sure, with rendering etc. they will help but those that need this kinda thing are probably on iMac Pro or Mac Pro already.

The real difference is in GPU so if they don't get RDNA2 (which would help with thermals) and give us mediocre GPU from last year then why bother in the first place?

Its so late and yet so close to the good tech stuff then if Apple really wants to 'explain' the wait then they should do a big update. Substantial update is not to put latest bastard Intel chip in and mediocre GPUs from last year. That is not substantial and in fact that is minimal update even not worth it one could say.

So yeah, leaks are all over the place with some saying redesign, some saying not, some saying good stuff some saying only spec bump. I just feel that I want to believe the 'substantial' rumour and therefore I hope its Sep/Oct and with that comes the good tech stuff that would allow redesign. I refuse to believe that Apple will just give us 10850 and call it a day. (I don't count last year GPU as update - sorry)

So, I might be too optimistic or too naive but that is what I believe and hope for.
If it turns out that I was wrong and we get crappy spec bump then I will not buy anything and will wait to see what AS will be about. Either way, I don't want another mediocre system for top dollar. It has to be reasonably good value otherwise I'm out.

I was predicting July but if not July then August. It’s looking like July may not happen so I’ll fall back on August.

Yeah maybe I should have a lame twitter feed too.

Seriously though, l0vetodream is a reasonably good twitter account. CoinX was good too, but we haven’t heard from CoinX recently unfortunately.

 

[pldelisle]

The reality is that 2020 model won't be that much faster over 2019 model unless they get the good stuff.
Intel CPUs itself will not provide much gain and those extra 2 cores may or may not make a big difference.
Sure, with rendering etc. they will help but those that need this kinda thing are probably on iMac Pro or Mac Pro already.

The real difference is in GPU so if they don't get RDNA2 (which would help with thermals) and give us mediocre GPU from last year then why bother in the first place?

Its so late and yet so close to the good tech stuff then if Apple really wants to 'explain' the wait then they should do a big update. Substantial update is not to put latest bastard Intel chip in and mediocre GPUs from last year. That is not substantial and in fact that is minimal update even not worth it one could say.

So yeah, leaks are all over the place with some saying redesign, some saying not, some saying good stuff some saying only spec bump. I just feel that I want to believe the 'substantial' rumour and therefore I hope its Sep/Oct and with that comes the good tech stuff that would allow redesign. I refuse to believe that Apple will just give us 10850 and call it a day. (I don't count last year GPU as update - sorry)

So, I might be too optimistic or too naive but that is what I believe and hope for.
If it turns out that I was wrong and we get crappy spec bump then I will not buy anything and will wait to see what AS will be about. Either way, I don't want another mediocre system for top dollar. It has to be reasonably good value otherwise I'm out.

I hope your are right.

But something's telling you're not.

Apple doesn't give a sh*t about Intel computers since a while. MacBook Pros are throttling, MacBook Air are throttling. The entire lineup runs on outdated CPU generation (except Mac Pro). The entire lineup has poor graphics performance (except Mac Pro) and outdated stuff...

Almost sure the next iMac will be 10 core, RDNA1.0 mid-range with some magic Radeon Pro 5600 with super expensive HBM2 on-package to keep the thermals down, and will have the same design as now.

The next big thing is Apple Silicon. iMac with FaceID, new FaceTime Camera, passively cooled (or slightly cooled) yet more powerful than an Intel 6 or 8-core chip and better graphics than RDNA1.0 (for beginning).

Don't set your expectations too high. Apple rarely understood how to make good computers in the last decade. While the actual MacBook Pros are near perfect, nothing can be as perfect as it will be with Apple Silicon.

The existence of the i9-10850 is the proof Apple didn't give a sh*t to this iMac, asked Intel to make them a sh*tty CPU with lower TDP for not changing their sh*tty cooling system and pack everything in the same case as before for one last time.

 

[Azrael9]

I hope your are right.

But something's telling you're not.

Apple doesn't give a sh*t about Intel computers since a while. MacBook Pros are throttling, MacBook Air are throttling. The entire lineup runs on outdated CPU generation (except Mac Pro). The entire lineup has poor graphics performance (except Mac Pro) and outdated stuff...

Almost sure the next iMac will be 10 core, RDNA1.0 mid-range with some magic Radeon Pro 5600 with super expensive HBM2 on-package to keep the thermals down, and will have the same design as now.

The next big thing is Apple Silicon. iMac with FaceID, new FaceTime Camera, passively cooled (or slightly cooled) yet more powerful than an Intel 6 or 8-core chip and better graphics than RDNA1.0 (for beginning).

Don't set your expectations too high. Apple rarely understood how to make good computers in the last decade. While the actual MacBook Pros are near perfect, nothing can be as perfect as it will be with Apple Silicon.

The existence of the i9-10850 is the proof Apple didn't give a sh*t to this iMac, asked Intel to make them a sh*tty CPU with lower TDP for not changing their sh*tty cooling system and pack everything in the same case as before for one last time.

Well. Yes.

If they can compare out of date Intels to brand new AS...they'll do it with a straight face. It's going to make their cpus and gpus look wayyyy faster and cooler. (I have no doubt they'll nail an 8 core Intel cpu and bury the 5700. It's a mid-range last year gpu.) The R&D is already done on the 5600 with HBM. They'll happily bto that for £800. I won't be buying that at that price. *

If they can get away with no redesign and no change to the cooling...and charge £2k to £3.5k full loaded? They'll do it. They're doing it now with the 2019 model. And those specs are out of date. No price cut. Just old hardware.

Just like they'll sell us an iMac with an out of date gpu for full price. Or the iMac Pro for full price. Now 3 years out of date. Or the Mac Pro for £6k with low end specs.

10 years and no redesign tells you all you need to know about Tim 'product' (*cough* profit ) driven Cook.

Corporations don't give a crap (they don't have hearts. They're just 'legal' entities.) Customer's do care..(and do have hearts.) Mac owners more than most. But they're not getting the Macs their hard earned money deserves. Not for a long time. Apple 'strung' out 'it'll do' updates to the Intel line knowing full well this transition was coming.

Knowing Mac users will buy it. Knowing that alot of customers is their stores maybe don't know better or should demand more for their coin.

Intel have got their problems. But I have a long list of things that Apple didn't do that they could have done.

Azrael.

 

[pldelisle]

Just like they'll sell us an iMac with an out of date gpu for full price.

Technically it's still the latest offering from AMD. So it's not out of date. It will be in September/October.
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10 years and no redesign tells you all you need to know about Tim 'product' (*cough* profit ) driven Cook.

Corporations don't give a crap (they don't have hearts. They're just 'legal' entities.) Customer's do care..(and do have hearts.) Mac owners more than most. But they're not getting the Macs their hard earned money deserves. Not for a long time. Apple 'strung' out 'it'll do' updates to the Intel line knowing full well this transition was coming.

Knowing Mac users will buy it. Knowing that alot of customers is their stores maybe don't know better or should demand more for their coin.

Intel have got their problems. But I have a long list of things that Apple didn't do that they could have done.

Totally agree. Intel is the source of the problem, but Apple didn't force itself to make anything better even thought Intel was screwing them.

 

[DrRadon]

He said.

Azrael.

I think i read somewhere that the heat is more of a ongoing thing when you have longer load. Like if you do benchmarks several times in a row you will get worse results. But i don't really know these things, my MacBookPro Sounds like a rocket lifting of when i render video on it, other than that the fans only kick in when i start games, but never as loud as when rendering.

 

[pldelisle]

I think i read somewhere that the heat is more of a ongoing thing when you have longer load. Like if you do benchmarks several times in a row you will get worse results. But i don't really know these things, my MacBookPro Sounds like a rocket lifting of when i render video on it, other than that the fans only kick in when i start games, but never as loud as when rendering.

But who makes benchmarks several times in a row every day ?

Rendering is totally normal. Both CPU and GPU are active. Any computer will see its fan speed ramp up in these kind of usage.

 

[Azrael9]

I think i read somewhere that the heat is more of a ongoing thing when you have longer load. Like if you do benchmarks several times in a row you will get worse results. But i don't really know these things, my MacBookPro Sounds like a rocket lifting of when i render video on it, other than that the fans only kick in when i start games, but never as loud as when rendering.

...and that's what Macs are... Creative machines.

That involves heavy lifting. Over time.

So the design and cooling should reflect that.

It's inadequate design.

Azrael.
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If I'm rendering in the background...

...and doing video work in the foreground...

I expect £2k+ to cope with it.

Design accordingly. Removing the MacTower case in that price range didn't help matters.

Why do Mac owners have to pay £5k and £6k to get decent cooling solutions.

Cynical.

Azrael.

 

[pldelisle]

It's inadequate design.

To a certain limit I agree.

But this is still an AIO. Could the cooling system be better ? Yes, iMac Pro shows it and probably has the best cooling system of all AIO on the market. But it's still limited to the form factor of an AIO. You can't do magic with thermodynamics laws.

Is the internal of the iMac could be better ? Freakingly yes !!!! We always said the perfect iMac is the iMac Pro without a useless, overpriced Xeon CPU. Apple is guilty for not doing this. It could be soooooo simple to have the perfect AIO on the planet, but Apple is too dumb to make it happen.

 

[Freida]

Absolutely, Intel is the source of all evil as those lazy bums didn't evolve and they are stuck in their 90s thinking when they were the best.

Frankly I hope that Intel will switch to ARM too and will save its face by offering something thats great. Competition is always good. Right now, Intel is done - regardless of what anyone says = they are dead! They delay announcements are like annual event. Hilarious and reoccurring.

As for Apple, they are lazy too. They could have solved it ages ago (and they partly did with iMac Pro) but they didn't. They kept releasing iMacs that throttle and yet charge you more and more for it.
They could have easily redesign iMac with iMac Pro cooling system AND with accessible ram and win us over. Instead, they released 2019 model - piece of fusion crap!
The only really good thing that came out of Apple recently is the Mac Pro and the XDR BUT they decided to price most people out so again we are without options. Only an insane person would buy base model Mac Pro - what a crappy deal.

I remember when I got my 2008 Mac Pro and also 2010 Mac Pro. In fact, 2008 was the best Mac Pro value from Apple - EVER! That was one awesome machine at the time and I complimented it with 30" ACD which back then was (I believe) £1200 (VAT included as europeans understand that price tag should show final price you pay and not that nonsense in NA (which I still can't get used to as its not straight forward))
I think that setup was for about £3000 all. Guess how much is base line Mac Pro + Apple display now? (just fusion kill me now, please)

So yeah, Apple had plenty of options to deal with Intel's inefficiencies but they decided not to. In a way it makes sense that there will be no redesign for Intel as that would be even more insulting (as it could have been done ages ago) but I still hope that they will do design that will be universal and usable for AS too. iMac Pro is the same design as iMac but its all changed inside so the same could be for last Intel and later AS.

Anyway, this whole thing saddens me. I can't even buy an iPad as the current update was weak and the structure is still weak (for my taste).

Wonder how will Apple innovate from now on now that they can't blame others for their failure.

Technically it's still the latest offering from AMD. So it's not out of date. It will be in September/October.
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Totally agree. Intel is the source of the problem, but Apple didn't force itself to make anything better even thought Intel was screwing them.

 

[Azrael9]

To a certain limit I agree.

But this is still an AIO. Could the cooling system be better ? Yes, iMac Pro shows it and probably has the best cooling system of all AIO on the market. But it's still limited to the form factor of an AIO. You can't do magic with thermodynamics laws.

Is the internal of the iMac could be better ? Freakingly yes !!!! We always said the perfect iMac is the iMac Pro without a useless, overpriced Xeon CPU. Apple is guilty for not doing this.

Apple couldn't get in Intel's labs and do their job for them.

But they could affect how they cool, design, box, make, components, fan coolers, innovative solutions.

However, it's obvious in the case of the iMac (ten years +) that they didn't design around Intel's problems of heat. (Unless you count the Mac Pro or Intel iMac Pro.)

They've had 3 years to help the iMac cooling. And done? Nothing. We got the underwhelming 2019 release.

Apple are only culpable for the things they can change. (I'm culpable for my choices in Mac hardware. If they are too pricey or run too hot. I can decide to buy or not.)

They've sat on the iMac. It's frustrating. That's not Steve Jobs' Apple.

They're creative machines. Apple should design them all accordingly. They'll be pushed harder. So design them that way. Cool them that way.

They're finally doing something about the AS. But they've known that for years.

The iMac has had better cooling...in it's iMac Pro for £4999.

Which is 3 years out of date. That tech' is old. That maybe 'someone's' latest...(*looks* sardonically...) but it's not good enough. At least give the cooling to the iMac. An extra fan and feed pipe? *Scoffs.*

Apple have a choice to put the 5700 in an iMac as a BTO option. They have chose not to do so either. Just like they choose not to give Mac owners superior Nv' options.

And this questions the integrity of their marketing as being the 'best' computers.

'We're so good...we don't even offer last year's mid range card...' or 'their competitor's high end cards...'

Azrael.
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Intel had a similar hubris to Apple. We're the market leaders...soaking our customers for £££ for quad core processors until AMD got off the canvas and did chiplets.

Did we get the alt' choice of AMD cpus? Nope. So got the worst cpus...and the worst gpus.

That's not 'best computers.'

The Mac Pro doesn't even have PCIE4.

Azrael.

 

[pldelisle]

Anyway, this whole thing saddens me. I can't even buy an iPad as the current update was weak and the structure is still weak (for my taste).

I've already told you this is in your head.

 

[Azrael9]

Absolutely, Intel is the source of all evil as those lazy bums didn't evolve and they are stuck in their 90s thinking when they were the best.

Frankly I hope that Intel will switch to ARM too and will save its face by offering something thats great. Competition is always good. Right now, Intel is done - regardless of what anyone says = they are dead! They delay announcements are like annual event. Hilarious and reoccurring.

As for Apple, they are lazy too. They could have solved it ages ago (and they partly did with iMac Pro) but they didn't. They kept releasing iMacs that throttle and yet charge you more and more for it.
They could have easily redesign iMac with iMac Pro cooling system AND with accessible ram and win us over. Instead, they released 2019 model - piece of fusion crap!
The only really good thing that came out of Apple recently is the Mac Pro and the XDR BUT they decided to price most people out so again we are without options. Only an insane person would buy base model Mac Pro - what a crappy deal.

I remember when I got my 2008 Mac Pro and also 2010 Mac Pro. In fact, 2008 was the best Mac Pro value from Apple - EVER! That was one awesome machine at the time and I complimented it with 30" ACD which back then was (I believe) £1200 (VAT included as europeans understand that price tag should show final price you pay and not that nonsense in NA (which I still can't get used to as its not straight forward))
I think that setup was for about £3000 all. Guess how much is base line Mac Pro + Apple display now? (just fusion kill me now, please)

So yeah, Apple had plenty of options to deal with Intel's inefficiencies but they decided not to. In a way it makes sense that there will be no redesign for Intel as that would be even more insulting (as it could have been done ages ago) but I still hope that they will do design that will be universal and usable for AS too. iMac Pro is the same design as iMac but its all changed inside so the same could be for last Intel and later AS.

Anyway, this whole thing saddens me. I can't even buy an iPad as the current update was weak and the structure is still weak (for my taste).

Wonder how will Apple innovate from now on now that they can't blame others for their failure.

Passionately written.

*Applauds.*

Mac users are the best thing about Apple.

At least they care.

Azrael.

 

[pldelisle]

Apple couldn't get in Intel's labs and do their job for them.

But they could affect how they cool, design, box, make, components, fan coolers, innovative solutions.

However, it's obvious in the case of the iMac (ten years +) that they didn't design around Intel's problems of heat. (Unless you count the Mac Pro or Intel iMac Pro.)

They've had 3 years to help the iMac cooling. And done? Nothing. We got the underwhelming 2019 release.

Apple are only culpable for the things they can change. (I'm culpable for my choices in Mac hardware. If they are too pricey or run too hot. I can decide to buy or not.)

They've sat on the iMac. It's frustrating. That's not Steve Jobs' Apple.

They're creative machines. Apple should design them all accordingly. They'll be pushed harder. So design them that way. Cool them that way.

They're finally doing something about the AS. But they've known that for years.

The iMac has had better cooling...in it's iMac Pro for £4999.

Which is 3 years out of date. That tech' is old. That maybe 'someone's' latest...(*looks* sardonically...) but it's not good enough. At least give the cooling to the iMac. An extra fan and feed pipe? *Scoffs.*

Apple have a choice to put the 5700 in an iMac as a BTO option. They have chose not to do so either. Just like they choose not to give Mac owners superior Nv' options.

And this questions the integrity of their marketing as being the 'best' computers.

'We're so good...we don't even offer last year's mid range card...' or 'their competitor's high end cards...'

Azrael.
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Intel had a similar hubris to Apple. We're the market leaders...soaking our customers for £££ for quad core processors until AMD got off the canvas and did chiplets.

Did we get the alt' choice of AMD cpus? Nope. So got the worst cpus...and the worst gpus.

That's not 'best computers.'

The Mac Pro doesn't even have PCIE4.

Azrael.

Totally agree. Not the Steve Job's apple.

And you know what ? The 2020 iMac will have the SAME internals, SAME fan, SAME cooling as the 2019 one. 99.99999% sure. There will only be a big hole in the case where the Fusion drive used to be.

iMac Pro is so outdated the GPus in it are discontinued.

S h a m e.

Nvidia in Mac is another, completely different story. And I respect Nvidia for not going with Apple. It was totally logical.

 

[Azrael9]

I've already told you this is in your head.

Freida has clearly spoken...

As for me..?

I like my iPad rigid and hard. (Please, no jokes.)

Azrael.

 

[Freida]

Its not, I've tested it in the Apple store. The amount of force needed to start flexing is super tiny. I have Air 2 and I'm after longevity. Just like the touch disease before, this could be an issue. Not risking it for almost $2000CAD

I've already told you this is in your head.

 

[Azrael9]

Totally agree. Not the Steve Job's apple.

And you know what ? The 2020 iMac will have the SAME internals, SAME fan, SAME cooling as the 2019 one. 99.99999% sure. There will only be a big hole in the case where the Fusion drive used to be.

Yes. The same old cliche, Apple. C'mon...can you do it Apple...show me the passion...

A big hole...

LOL.

Yes. And in the bank account too. :/

Azrael.

 

[pldelisle]

Its not, I've tested it in the Apple store. The amount of force needed to start flexing is super tiny. I have Air 2 and I'm after longevity. Just like the touch disease before, this could be an issue. Not risking it for almost $2000CAD

Your choice. But I have it since February and it's still mint. I pay attention to my things, handle them carefully. If you are roff with your things, it's on your side. Maybe the Air 2 is stiffer, but I feel mine totally correct.

 

[Azrael9]

Its not, I've tested it in the Apple store. The amount of force needed to start flexing is super tiny. I have Air 2 and I'm after longevity. Just like the touch disease before, this could be an issue. Not risking it for almost $2000CAD

Yeah. I went to PC World over here in the UK.

I thought, this iPad 'Banana' thing must be a 'myth' (after all, they must be 'fake' news people, right? Apple is always right...' *eyes gleaming inanely...like the paid up cult member I am...)

And sure enough. If you don't 'touch' it? It's straight.

But pick it up in your hands? Feels...'flexy.' Put your finger's on each diagonal end and press...'lightly'.

Flexxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

As with the bendy iPhone 6.

Not. Good. Enough.

The iPad 11 (because of the smaller size?) Doesn't seem to suffer this.

That extra two inches (no jokes, please...) has made it bendy.

Great machine. Great software. Getting expensive. Expect better than bendy iBanana.

Sure. If you're super careful with it. I'm sure it will be 'fine.'

But I can 'see' how people have had issues with it. Just put...ahem...a bit more 'stiffener' in there...Apple.

iViagra or something.

Azrael.
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Its not, I've tested it in the Apple store. The amount of force needed to start flexing is super tiny. I have Air 2 and I'm after longevity. Just like the touch disease before, this could be an issue. Not risking it for almost $2000CAD

Yeah. I think this model will be like the Macbook klakk RSI kb. Sooner or later they'll use more robust strengtheners like they did...eventually with the iPhone 6.

It's just up to owners or customers to make some more noise about it. When the mindshare gives them a big enough beating and wallets close up...they'll sort it.

That aside?

I'd happily take a more rigid, 17 inch A14x version.

No one wants a ibendy one...(iPad!)

Azrael.

 

[pldelisle]

But pick it up in your hands? Feels...'flexy.' Put your finger's on each diagonal end and press...'lightly'.

Lol I just did it on mine. Nope. Didn't see any flex while sincerely applying good pressure.

 

[Azrael9]

Totally agree. Not the Steve Job's apple.

And you know what ? The 2020 iMac will have the SAME internals, SAME fan, SAME cooling as the 2019 one. 99.99999% sure. There will only be a big hole in the case where the Fusion drive used to be.

iMac Pro is so outdated the GPus in it are discontinued.

S h a m e.

Nvidia in Mac is another, completely different story. And I respect Nvidia for not going with Apple. It was totally logical.

Seriously? The gpus in the iMac Pro are discontinued?

:OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Azrael.

 

[pldelisle]

Seriously? The gpus in the iMac Pro are discontinued?

:OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Azrael.

I think it's been quite a while since AMD stopped selling Vega cards... The in-stock boards one could find are mostly overstock I think.

 

[Azrael9]

Lol I just did it on mine. Nope. Didn't see any flex while sincerely applying good pressure.

1-2-3...

Azrael.
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I think it's been quite a while since AMD stopped selling Vega cards... The in-stock boards one could find are mostly overstock I think.

Geeze. And Apple are still selling iMac Pros with those hot and noisy gpus?

Marketing leading prices...for discontinued components.

Azrael.

 

[Freida]

I am careful with my things. I still have iPhone 6 and its still fine (its my holiday iPhone now as I switched to SE2)
But at the same time, that doesn't mean that this device is great. As Azrael said, this thing is flexy as hell and seeing that the camera protrude too - well, that could be an issue eventually.
Maybe it will be ok just like my iPhone 6 was but I'm not willing to risk it at this price tag. I expect better from Apple and I hope they will rectify this situation.
The product needs to improve.
Isn't it hilarious, that Apple now has tons of products that need to be redesigned for various reasons. I think Apart for Mac Pro the rest of the line needs some form of redesign. Hahahaha, how things went wrong here for years

Your choice. But I have it since February and it's still mint. I pay attention to my things, handle them carefully. If you are roff with your things, it's on your side. Maybe the Air 2 is stiffer, but I feel mine totally correct.

 

[pldelisle]

Yeah. Do it on purpose. It will for sure bend. 🤦‍♂️

Take care of it. It will never do.

 

[Azrael9]

It flexes.

Sure. I don't mind it thinner if was sturdier. I'd rather they give it a bit more thickness and make it sturdier.

I think it was...model before they went flat edges...which was sturdier. I did like that one.

A couple of iterations ago.

Azrael.