Will upgrading to 10.15 impact iMac performance?

[bluechipBMW]

I have a late 2012 iMac 21.5 (OD 10.10.5) that I use personally but also use for work. For work I use Citrix Receiver to remote into my desktop at the office but just found out that I have to update to Citrix Workspace and in order to do that the IT group said I have to upgrade my Mac OS to 10.14 or 10.15.

Right now I have no issues from a performance perspective so I am concerned if my iMac can handle the update to 10.15 and will it cause my Mac to run slower? Just looking for feedback and any other suggestions to consider if I do decide update that will help make the process go smooth. I confirmed I have over 250 gigs of available space.

iMac Specs
Processor - 3.1 GHz Intel Core i7
Memory - 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3

 

[Juicy Box]

HDD or SSD?

If you are using a HDD, you will probably see a huge decrease in performance.

APFS on HDDs are not a good idea in general, but there have been many reporting even worse performance when going from Mojave to Catalina.

I suggest getting a SSD if you have not already. This upgrade alone would feel like a different computer.

 

[bluechipBMW]

HDD or SSD?

If you are using a HDD, you will probably see a huge decrease in performance.

APFS on HDDs are not a good idea in general, but there have been many reporting even worse performance when going from Mojave to Catalina.

I suggest getting a SSD if you have not already. This upgrade alone would feel like a different computer.

Good question... so I confirmed I have a fusion drive. I'm thinking its not as good as SSD so you think my performance will be impacted?

 

[Juicy Box]

I personally would try not use APFS on a HDD nor Fusion Drive, but I would especially not use it on Catalina.

You may not be in the position to buy a new Mac at the moment, nor do you need to when your current Mac seems to be perfectly sufficient for your needs.

But, you can get yourself a cheap 1TB SSD and a USB3/SATA adapter or USB3 enclosure for really cheap right now. While it wouldn't be as dramatic performance increase over a HDD, the SSD will still see a decent performance increase over the Fusion Drive.

If you decide to use Catalina, then I would highly recommend getting a SSD, because many are reporting performance decreases with Fusion Drives after upgrading to Catalina.

All that said, I would not upgrade to Catalina unless you have to. This has nothing to do with your specs nor the age of your Mac, but the fact that Catalina seems to be a world of hurt for some people.

If you are happy with Mojave, and you are not require to get Catalina, just stick with Mojave.

 

[bluechipBMW]

I personally would try not use APFS on a HDD nor Fusion Drive, but I would especially not use it on Catalina.

You may not be in the position to buy a new Mac at the moment, nor do you need to when your current Mac seems to be perfectly sufficient for your needs.

But, you can get yourself a cheap 1TB SSD and a USB3/SATA adapter or USB3 enclosure for really cheap right now. While it wouldn't be as dramatic performance increase over a HDD, the SSD will still see a decent performance increase over the Fusion Drive.

If you decide to use Catalina, then I would highly recommend getting a SSD, because many are reporting performance decreases with Fusion Drives after upgrading to Catalina.

All that said, I would not upgrade to Catalina unless you have to. This has nothing to do with your specs nor the age of your Mac, but the fact that Catalina seems to be a world of hurt for some people.

If you are happy with Mojave, and you are not require to get Catalina, just stick with Mojave.

Thank you for the informative response. I definitely learned something new today!

I have a dumb question....When you say I can get "1TB SSD and a USB3/SATA adapter or USB3 enclosure" - how will this work? Sounds like it would be external so how would I make this the primary drive to run Catalina?

My second dumb question - I'm still on Yosemite so I think I can upgrade to Mojave from what I have been reading but let me know if I am wrong. I also read that Citrix Workspace will work with Mojave so I am considering to upgrade to Mojave and forget Catalina.

 

[Juicy Box]

I'm still on Yosemite

I would upgrade to High Sierra. If you have compatibility issues, then go higher.

High Sierra will most likely be losing security updates soon, and if this is an issue, you can use Firefox for you web browser or go with Mojave.

When you say I can get "1TB SSD and a USB3/SATA adapter or USB3 enclosure" - how will this work? Sounds like it would be external so how would I make this the primary drive to run Catalina?

There are plenty of how-to guides out there, and if you need help, you can always ask the forum.

It is pretty easy, and MacOS runs great on external drives. I have been doing it for many, many years. I have even used old iPods as MacOS boot drive before.

One issue with using a USB3 drive is that you will be losing TRIM support. Some never have any issues with this, but some people do. It could just slow down the SSD speeds over time, especially the write speeds.

There are other external options for you besides USB.

Using an external TB SSD will give you faster speed than USB3 while still having TRIM support.

While external TB1/2 SSD enclosures and drives tend to be really expensive, there are some other things you can do to save money. LaCie makes a brand of external drives called Rugged, and you can sometimes find a decent priced TB Rugged HDD on ebay. I bought a couple and took the HDD out and replaced them with SSDs. It's easy, and can be done in probably 2 minutes if I was drunk.

TB3 NVMe drives are the fastest, faster than what your internal SATA is capable of, but it is also the most expensive option.

You can also upgrade the internal HDD to an internal SSD. This would be ideal, and the cheapest option, but many are not comfortable opening up the iMacs.


My suggestion is get a USB3 adapter or enclosure and a SSD. If you find that your SSD starts to slow down and it is TRIM related, you can always install that SSD into your iMac later or upgrade to a TB enclosure.

If you want to spend a little more money, and/or don't feel comfortable putting a SSD into an enclosure (although it is super easy), you can get something like the Samsung T5 external SSD drive. A lot of people like them, but I personally would just buy the enclosure/adapter separate from the SSD and save money.

 

[bluechipBMW]

I would upgrade to High Sierra. If you have compatibility issues, then go higher.

High Sierra will most likely be losing security updates soon, and if this is an issue, you can use Firefox for you web browser or go with Mojave.


There are plenty of how-to guides out there, and if you need help, you can always ask the forum.

It is pretty easy, and MacOS runs great on external drives. I have been doing it for many, many years. I have even used old iPods as MacOS boot drive before.

One issue with using a USB3 drive is that you will be losing TRIM support. Some never have any issues with this, but some people do. It could just slow down the SSD speeds over time, especially the write speeds.

There are other external options for you besides USB.

Using an external TB SSD will give you faster speed than USB3 while still having TRIM support.

While external TB1/2 SSD enclosures and drives tend to be really expensive, there are some other things you can do to save money. LaCie makes a brand of external drives called Rugged, and you can sometimes find a decent priced TB Rugged HDD on ebay. I bought a couple and took the HDD out and replaced them with SSDs. It's easy, and can be done in probably 2 minutes if I was drunk.

TB3 NVMe drives are the fastest, faster than what your internal SATA is capable of, but it is also the most expensive option.

You can also upgrade the internal HDD to an internal SSD. This would be ideal, and the cheapest option, but many are not comfortable opening up the iMacs.


My suggestion is get a USB3 adapter or enclosure and a SSD. If you find that your SSD starts to slow down and it is TRIM related, you can always install that SSD into your iMac later or upgrade to a TB enclosure.

If you want to spend a little more money, and/or don't feel comfortable putting a SSD into an enclosure (although it is super easy), you can get something like the Samsung T5 external SSD drive. A lot of people like them, but I personally would just buy the enclosure/adapter separate from the SSD and save money.

Thanks again for your help. I sent an email to the IT dept to confirm which is the lowest version of OS and Citrix Workspace I can upgrade to. If the response is Catalina then I will be looking into one of the above options you mentioned.

 

[Juicy Box]

Let us know what they say.

 

[r6mile]

You have another option, which I think is better. You could split your Fusion Drive into the SSD (which I think is 128GB in your model) and the HDD portion - make sure you have a backup on an external drive first of course. You can then install Catalina on the SSD, using APFS as required, and use that drive just for your system folder. Then use the HDD for everything else - media, etc.

You may have to do a 'clean install' of OS Catalina, and then copy your files manually from the backup. But I think this is the neater solution.

 

[bluechipBMW]

I watched a view youtube videos and decided to pull the trigger and buy a SSD and an exclosure. Here is what I bought:
-SSK Aluminum M.2 NVME SSD Enclosure Adapter, USB 3.1 Gen 2 (10 Gbps) to NVME PCI-E M-Key Solid State Drive External Enclosure
-Samsung (MZ-V7E1T0BW) 970 EVO SSD 1TB - M.2 NVMe Interface Internal Solid State Drive with V-NAND Technology, Black/Red

 

[r6mile]

I watched a view youtube videos and decided to pull the trigger and buy a SSD and an exclosure. Here is what I bought:
-SSK Aluminum M.2 NVME SSD Enclosure Adapter, USB 3.1 Gen 2 (10 Gbps) to NVME PCI-E M-Key Solid State Drive External Enclosure
-Samsung (MZ-V7E1T0BW) 970 EVO SSD 1TB - M.2 NVMe Interface Internal Solid State Drive with V-NAND Technology, Black/Red

Unfortunately your iMac only has USB 3.0, not USB 3.1, so it will be no faster than the internal SSD drive. USB 3.0 has a maximum bandwidth of 5Gbps, which I think is about the same as your internal 128GB PCIe SSD. Of course you can still go external if you simply want to get a larger single SSD, but in that case I would recommend a cheaper SATA SSD drive with a USB 3.0 enclosure, as opposed to NVMe and USB 3.1.

Basically, your USB 3.0 ports will throttle the speed of the NVMe drive by quite a lot. Of course, if you intend to reuse the drive with other more modern computers eventually, then your choice is fine.

 

[Juicy Box]

You probably could have saved some going SATA, as you will not really see the benefits of using NVMe over the USB3.2 Gen 1 ports you have on your iMac. Also, if you decide to upgrade you internal HDD to a SSD, the NVMe drive you got wouldn't work, as you would need a SATA SSD.

But, if/when you get a new Mac, you can bring your new enclosure with you and utilize those speeds.

The only way to take advantage of the speeds of the NVMe you purchased is to get a TB3 enclosure and the accessories/cables needed to run it on your Mac.

Either way, you should see a decent performance increase and shouldn't have issues with APFS.

 

[Juicy Box]

I'm still on Yosemite

Just a reminder, I would still upgrade the internal drive to at least High Sierra before doing any cloning to the NVMe drive or fresh installs. This will install Firmware that you might end up needing.

Also, make sure you have a back up, preferably a bootable one, prior to doing any major updating of the OS.

 

[bluechipBMW]

Unfortunately your iMac only has USB 3.0, not USB 3.1, so it will be no faster than the internal SSD drive. USB 3.0 has a maximum bandwidth of 5Gbps, which I think is about the same as your internal 128GB PCIe SSD. Of course you can still go external if you simply want to get a larger single SSD, but in that case I would recommend a cheaper SATA SSD drive with a USB 3.0 enclosure, as opposed to NVMe and USB 3.1.

Basically, your USB 3.0 ports will throttle the speed of the NVMe drive by quite a lot. Of course, if you intend to reuse the drive with other more modern computers eventually, then your choice is fine.

I see your point. I was trying to find an enclosure for Thunderbolt but I was only able to find Thunderbolt 3.

Basically I am being forced to upgrade to Mojave and to update to a compatible Citrix Workspace so I can remove into my desktop at work.

 

[bluechipBMW]

Just a reminder, I would still upgrade the internal drive to at least High Sierra before doing any cloning to the NVMe drive or fresh installs. This will install Firmware that you might end up needing.

Also, make sure you have a back up, preferably a bootable one, prior to doing any major updating of the OS.

I'm glad you mentioned this to me because I wasn't thinking of updating the internal drive. I was going to leave the internal drive as is and just connect the SSD via the enclosure adapter to the iMac and force it to read the external drive then format it and then install the OS on it.

 

[Juicy Box]

USB 3.1 Gen 2

iMac only has USB 3.0, not USB 3.1

USB3.2 Gen 1 ports you have on your iMac

I was reviewing the thread and noticed this.

For the OP and anyone else that stumbles on the thread looking for advice, for some silly reason, the names for the USB specifications keep changing and if someone doesn't know it or up on the current USB naming conventions, they could get a little confused if they read this thread.

Your iMac has what is now referred to USB3.2 gen1 ports. This is the same as USB3.1 Gen1 and USB3.0 ports. They have speeds up to 5Gbps. Nothing about the specification has changed, except the name and how retailers are advertising them. Just out of habit, I tend to just call this just USB3 unless I am also referring to other USB specifications.

The drive you purchased is a USB3.2 gen 2, which is the same as USB3.1 gen2 and USB3.1, capable of up to 10Gbps.

There is also USB3.2 gen 2x2, but I won't get into that, as it doesn't have to do with this thread.

To the OP: You may already have known all of that, but I was just thinking of people that find your thread looking to do something similar, and them not be able to follow what everyone was talking about since three different people are using three different naming conventions.

 

[bluechipBMW]

Ok...so you guys have been really helpful. I decided to cancel my order and re-think this for the best optimal solution especially if I decide to replace the internal drive. Below is what I am considering purchasing.


- Sabrent 2.5-Inch SATA to USB 3.0 Tool-Free External Hard Drive Enclosure [Optimized for SSD, Support UASP SATA III] Black (EC-UASP)

- Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1TB 2.5 Inch SATA III Internal SSD

 

[Juicy Box]

Ok...so you guys have been really helpful. I decided to cancel my order and re-think this for the best optimal solution especially if I decide to replace the internal drive. Below is what I am considering purchasing.


- Sabrent 2.5-Inch SATA to USB 3.0 Tool-Free External Hard Drive Enclosure [Optimized for SSD, Support UASP SATA III] Black (EC-UASP)

- Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1TB 2.5 Inch SATA III Internal SSD

Both very good choices.

For external, I would probably go with a cheaper SSD as you can find 1TB SSD for less than $90 now, but considering that you may install the SSD internally at some point, the 860 EVO is a good choice and something I have used multiple times inside of Macs.

As for the enclosure, these things are pretty generic, so as long as the rating isn't horrible you should be good.


In the future if you ever have any TRIM related issues, you can search for a LaCie Rugged TB1/2 drives on ebay. They have HDDs in them, but you can swap your 860 EVO in one in less than 2 minutes. It may give you a slight speed boost over USB, but more importantly, you would have TRIM support.

Or you could also just open your iMac and replace the HDD with your 860 Evo, giving you a big speed bump and TRIM.

Anyways, if you need help with the cloning, formatting, or install, let us know.

 

[bluechipBMW]

Both very good choices.

For external, I would probably go with a cheaper SSD as you can find 1TB SSD for less than $90 now, but considering that you may install the SSD internally at some point, the 860 EVO is a good choice and something I have used multiple times inside of Macs.

As for the enclosure, these things are pretty generic, so as long as the rating isn't horrible you should be good.


In the future if you ever have any TRIM related issues, you can search for a LaCie Rugged TB1/2 drives on ebay. They have HDDs in them, but you can swap your 860 EVO in one in less than 2 minutes. It may give you a slight speed boost over USB, but more importantly, you would have TRIM support.

Or you could also just open your iMac and replace the HDD with your 860 Evo, giving you a big speed bump and TRIM.

Anyways, if you need help with the cloning, formatting, or install, let us know.

Thank you! Do I have to clone? I watched a YouTube video where they formatted the SDD using Disk Utility and then installed Mojave on it while on their internal fusion drive. The video mentioned they can boot to either the fusion internal drive or to the SDD. I'm thinking of booting from the SDD and keeping the Fusion Drive the same and just access the data when I need to. Am I interpreting everything correctly?

 

[Juicy Box]

Do I have to clone?

No. Many, including myself, like cloning, but it definitely not necessary.

Apple's built-in Migration Assistant is a great tool to copy everything from one boot drive to another.

The two boot drives do not need to be the same OS either, but IIRC, the destination boot drive needs to be the same OS or newer. This would be what you are doing.

I watched a YouTube video where they formatted the SDD using Disk Utility and then installed Mojave on it while on their internal fusion drive.

Yup, this is how you can do it.

The use the Migration Assistant when setting up the new boot drive, and use the internal drive as the source. Apple's Migration Assistant can be a little slow, which is why I like cloning, but it is easy and built into the OS.

I'm thinking of booting from the SDD and keeping the Fusion Drive the same and just access the data when I need to.

When you say the "the same", you mean unchanged, correct? If so, you can do that.

On my Mac Pro 1,1, I have a internal drive that I use to back up my Plex server, but I also partitioned it a few times to hold old versions of MacOS incase I want to go back and access something that isn't available on the newer version of MacOS. The SW RAID GUI of Disk Utility is one example. I keep a copy of MacOS 10.9 Maverick to quickly boot up into when I need it.

Now, if you mean "the same" as an identical copy to the external drive, then that would be a good case for cloning. I use CCC on several Macs to do a daily clone of the boot drives to different drive.

Either way, I would definitely upgrade your internal drive to High Sierra prior to doing anything with your new external drive.

Good luck, and let us know how it works out.

 

[orbital~debris]

Love this thread. This (friendly help from users like @vertical smile) is what makes MacRumors a great place to visit 👍
Carry on.