will verizon's network crash ???????

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by bid2ask77, Jan 10, 2011.

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What do you think will happen???

  1. Verizon Network Crash!

    25.6%
  2. Verizon Network Will Start Dropping Calls!

    30.8%
  3. Nothing Verizon Can Handle It!

    59.0%
  1. bid2ask77 macrumors regular

    bid2ask77

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
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    New York
    #1
    Who here thinks thats once verizon gets the Iphone that there network will crash or start to have the same problem that people say att has????
     
  2. Carl G35c macrumors 6502

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    Aug 14, 2008
  3. bid2ask77 thread starter macrumors regular

    bid2ask77

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
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    New York
    #3
    Sorry about putting up another Verizon thread. GBut i am hopping for the best here i cant stand hearing how verizon is the best service around i cant stand them. I belive there over priced and there customer service sucks. Im just wish that verizon starts to show some of the problem that att has do to the fact that there network is flooded with iphone users that flood there network.
     
  4. kdarling macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

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    #4
    With ATT, a data overload can cause 3G based voice calls to drop. That's not possible on Verizon because of their separation of voice and data.

    In addition, ATT started with GPRS/TDMA and sited their towers for it. UMTS-3G/WCDMA requires a different layout. While not hard to accomplish in the packed Euro countries, here in the USA it meant that ATT was not optimized for CDMA radios. They have to put up hundreds or even thousands of new towers, which they're still working on.

    Again, Verizon has always been CDMA radio based, and did not have to revamp their layout for 3G. They're already optimized.

    Verizon also bought MCI for their fiber backbone, and are using FiOS lines for fiber backhaul... even selling a lot of that to ATT.

    So while you might see data slowdowns on Verizon during crowd overloads, it won't increase dropped calls (which are very rare to begin with).
     
  5. bid2ask77 thread starter macrumors regular

    bid2ask77

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    New York
    #5
    Wow Thanks for the info. You really know your stuff.
     
  6. Pomeless macrumors regular

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    Nov 15, 2010
    #6
    Thanks for geeking us out with the great info!!
     
  7. Consultant macrumors G5

    Consultant

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2007
    #7
    NO.

    That's because Verizon 3G currently does NOT allow simultaneous 3G and voice.

    Never had a call dropped due to data use on AT&T.
     
  8. Namji macrumors 6502a

    Namji

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2010
    #8
    Wow... At&t is using the iphone as their excuse for poor reception and coverage is pitiful.... At&t had spotty coverages before the iphone was available..

    Verizon wireless had and will always have good reception and coverages no matter how many ex-At&t customers convert to VZW.

    Why at&t users have hate on verizon is beyond me..

    You tell people to go ahead and switch carriers to set free some of the issues with At&t... but at the same time you "claim" there is no issues with At&t.
     
  9. Stealthipad macrumors 68040

    Stealthipad

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2010
    #9
    If AT&T's network did not they should not either.

    There will be a rush to activate, just like AT&T but they will get through it.
     
  10. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    #10
    no he is still right. Verizon 3G can do it just Verizon never turn it on. If you dig around for it it turn out Verizon did have plans to allow simultaneous 3G voice and data but scraped it when they started looking at 4G.

    On top of that Verizon already handles a lot more wireless data than AT&T. You have to remember Verizon handles huge amounts of wireless laptop cards that make the iPhone pale in how much data they handle.

    kdarling also explain a lot of the geeker stuff as well. AT&T network could not of handled it. Verizon would never of had the issue that AT&T did with the wireless.
    Also I might like to point out that Verizon carriers a lot of phones now that pull data just as hard as the iPhone (all the droid phones) so it is no longer an iPhone only issue. All the carriers have high demand data phones now.
    AT&T system just lags and never had long range thought in it. Verizon on the other hand always had a long range plan in it.
     
  11. kdarling macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

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    #11
    No what?

    As I pointed out, the separation is a major reason Verizon won't get dropped voice calls as more people use data.

    Actually, you probably have, and didn't know why. I'm mostly talking about other data users on your cell, btw. But not always. See (3) below.

    A lot of it revolves around the way CDMA works. Unlike TDMA, where everyone gets a fixed timeslot to send/receive (thus limiting the users and speed), CDMA radios can all talk at once. This is why they can handle so many more users and bandwidth. And that's why GSM went to WCDMA for its 3G.

    The usual allegory is of a party room with everyone talking to each other, except of course everyone is talking to a tower (or towers) instead.

    As more users come into the room, everyone has to talk a bit louder to be heard by the tower. The trouble is, people around the edges can no longer be heard because the noise floor rises. This is called the cell "breathing in" as its usable circle gets smaller. The people on the outer edges must either talk to another tower, or get dropped.

    1) Bugs. When the iPhone 3G first came out, it had a WCDMA power control bug. Every phone on a 3G cell is supposed to follow commands to constantly increase/decrease its power output (loudness) as the noise floor changes. The iPhone instead kept ramping up, causing all the people along the cell edge to get dropped. It was a giant goof-up, soon fixed by a code update. But there are still users out there who didn't update.

    2) Siting. Because ATT didn't site their towers for WCDMA at first, their 3G network ran into trouble as more 3G data users came into play. Cells could breath in, with no other cell close enough to take the load. Result: dropped calls.

    3) 2G->3G switchover. My favorite. You're on a 2G based GSM voice call. Internally, your iPhone wakes up to ping an email server or check for notifications... but uh oh the phone now needs a simultaneous voice+data connection. So, in between your talking on 2G, it flips on its 3G radio to negotiate a 3G connection that _can_ handle voice+data... then gives up the 2G connection and transfers to the 3G one. But sometimes that fails. Result: you're talking happily along and get dropped for what seems like no reason at all. Or this can happen when you try to look something up on the web while talking.

    ATT knows about all these things, btw, and have been working on them, so eventually a lot of the problems will go away in many areas.
     
  12. macsrcool1234 macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2010
    #12
    Verizon has carried more data than ATT for 3 years in a row and probably sooner than that.

    Nobody ever bitches about the problems like they did with AT&T.

    So yes, they can handle it.


    This guys consistently posts 2 or three line posts that have nothing but misinformed myths. He reminds me of an old granny reading tabloids.
     
  13. GolpherZX macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    #13
    You are 100% correct. If I'm not mistaken, as long as the tower can make a connection with you, the voice portion will always go through instead of any data.

    So if you are streaming Pandora, the music stream will be interrupted while you talk on the phone, or while the phone is ringing for that matter.

    The only question is how much data throughput will get through when the towers are heavily in use.

    For those who say that there isn't simultaneous voice and data on CDMA, it has been developed - SVDO. I'm not sure if that is just a software upgrade, or if it requires a hardware replacement of towers in the VZW network or not. It does require a feature built into the chip of the device to support however.
     
  14. Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Location:
    Sunny Southern California
    #14
    Why would you make the Poll so that a user can selected all options? That hardly gives any accurate insights.
     
  15. Oilbrnr macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    #15
    kdarling, I think you should copy and paste your response above to save time in the future! You constantly have to explain the CDMA vs. AT&T GSM situation to those that don't understand/comprehend the technological differences and AT&Ts poor site planning.

    Thanks again for providing an accurate explanation!
     
  16. kdarling macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

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    #16
    You're very welcome. Thank you for the kind words.

    As for making it permanent, I just noticed that Gizmodo has written up an article covering the same point about separation of voice and data:

    Why a Verizon iPhone May Drop Fewer Calls than AT&T

    Regards - Kev
     
  17. Geckotek macrumors G3

    Geckotek

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    Jul 22, 2008
    Location:
    NYC
    #17
    That's what he said, only he described the technology, you described the resulting symptom.

    This was my experience when I switched from Verizon to an AT&T 3G phone. What I didn't realize at the time were the issues that KDarling described above.

    I think there's one more he left out...I believe they activated a limited channel capacity on WCDMA when first launched. Can you verify/explain this further KDarling?

    But AT&T's did, but for technical issues that Verizon won't be subject to (unless the iPhone is LTE and Verizon has screwed up the migration.) However, it's possible Apple has a bug in the CDMA radio like they did the WCDMA radio.
     
  18. tritonj macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2008
    #18
    the question really should be will iphone users on verizon have reception issues. verizon has plenty of people on android phones already so they are using plenty of data. keep in mind the iphone was the first smart phone that really used data in this manner, android users use data in a similar fashion, so they already have this type of data load on their network. unless there is some crazy influx of users in the weeks following the launch i don't see an issue here.

    what i do think will be interesting is if only iphone users on verizon have an issue. at that point apple can no longer hide behind att as the cause of some of these dropped calls and other what seemed to be carrier network issues and will actually have to come up with a new excuse or address the problem and fix it.
     
  19. Geckotek macrumors G3

    Geckotek

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    Jul 22, 2008
    Location:
    NYC
    #19
    Another user using data...or even voice..does not cause reception issues. Reception issues all go back to network design/tower layout and the geography in the area.
     
  20. Nuc macrumors 6502a

    Nuc

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2003
    Location:
    TN
    #20
    I left VZ for the iPhone. I had more dropped calls in one month than I had with VZ in 9 years. I have full 3G coverage on ATT and I still drop calls with all bars. Can't wait to switch back. ATT sucks!

    Nuc
     
  21. tritonj macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2008
    #21
    call the issue whatever you want, i'm just lumping them as a general term, point being, whatever thte pain points are that att iphone users have it will be interesting if those issues manifest themselves on the verizon side of things as well. at that point you really can't blame a carrier anymore, unless they are doing thing completely non-standard
     
  22. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    #22
    based on all that it looks like the iPhone was to blame for many of the issues AT&T due to many of the bugs and poor programing.

    My guess is Apple being so secretive prevented AT&T from doing many of the required testing on the network to confirm everything worked with out a problem.
    Verizon I would not be surpised is requiring some pretty heavy test from Apple in the field and require them being drivinn all over the country. It would not be hard for them to keep it quite and covered it. They can easily cause it to report false info to web servers saying it is an Android phone and then the person using it could easily just say it was AT&T. Pretty much on the outside have it fake info.
     
  23. Geckotek macrumors G3

    Geckotek

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    Jul 22, 2008
    Location:
    NYC
    #23
    I'd call it 50/50. The WCDMA migration by AT&T was handled badly IMHO. I suffered issues on my 3G Samsung flip as well. So it wasn't due to Apple that much.

    Not to mention AT&T should have required more testing.
     
  24. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    #24
    AT&T more than likely wanted more testing but Apple would not allow it. I have a feeling it was Apple that forced the issue. When traced down it was found out that the iPhone had more problems than the other phones in terms of network conductivity and it was creating more noise.
    I want to say AT&T even told Apple that the chip they were users was not a good choice because AT&T 3G network was not laid out in a way that it would of been good for it. Apple of course refused to listen.

    I would say more like 80/20 if not 90/10. Apple being the want taking most of the blame.
     
  25. Geckotek macrumors G3

    Geckotek

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    Location:
    NYC
    #25
    Agreed on the testing part, but not on the 3G chip part. Like I mentioned, even my Samsung 3G flip phone had MAJOR call dropping issues because the 3G network was not ready for prime-time. AT&T shouldn't have launched it when they did.
     

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