Will you support Apple in the future?

Discussion in 'Apple, Inc and Tech Industry' started by Ramius, Apr 30, 2010.

  1. Ramius macrumors 6502

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    #1
    Its not long ago I was blessed to discover Apple products. I made the switch from PC when Apple launched their first unibody Macbook. It didnt take long before I got myself an Iphone as well. I have since been convinced that their computers are superior to others.

    Now I´m not so sure anymore. During the last year Apple has made two HUGE enemies. Google, and Flash/Adobe. And even though Steve Jobs argues for using new technology instead of old, one thing is certain: Apple is censoring the internet.

    When using their iPads or iPhones, Apple is blocking the user from seing content available to everyone else. Just like China was doing to Google. And now Apple wants to get into the search business too?

    With their "ridicules public figure"-politics? As an almost graduated journalism-student, this feels bad in my bones. Im not sure I can continue buying Apples products, no matter how nice they look, or cool features they may offer.

    I support Jon Stewarts criticism, that Apple used to be the underdog. They used to make the right choices, the best products, make the right alliances and be on the forefront of technology. Now, instead of gaining friends, they are losing them. And not just anyone, we´re talking GOOGLE AND ADOBE. Perhaps the two biggest software/net brands on planet earth!

    So what do you all think about this powerhungry company that Apple has undeniably become. Will you keep on supporting them with YOUR money in the future?
     
  2. Hellhammer Moderator

    Hellhammer

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    #2
    Google nor Adobe have done nothing yet and in the end, they only care about money and Macs are noticeable market share. Unless Adobe or Google starts to eliminate support for Macs, I'm not stopping to support Apple.

    I've never been a fanboy who think everything must be Apple, I just buy what I think is good and worth it
     
  3. belvdr macrumors 603

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    #3
    Now with today's shutdown of Lala, which was just recently acquired by Apple, it seems they are locking folks in more and more. While I really like our MBP, I'm not sure the next machine will be Apple, but there's plenty of time between now and then.
     
  4. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #4
    You raise some good points, but you need to ask yourself what brought you to apple products in the first place.

    Was it their social conscience? Their ability to get along with other corporate entities or did they produce some excellent products with a level of integration that other computer makers have not achieved?

    While the relationship issues with adobe and google have been painful and public and will I believe ultimately impact apple negatively. They all continue to rely on each other,i.e., adobe photoshop, google maps, etc for the time being.

    The question really should be does (or will) apple's products be worth the expense, because make no mistake, they are more expensive then their competitors.

    I can see your point with Jobs shooting his mouth off in emails lately and their actions have been quite arrogant.

    The other thing to consider is apple's focus inline with your needs. For instance, I believe apple is dedicating a ton of resources on the mobile market because that market segment has the most potential for growth and profits. Where as the laptop/desktop platform is a mature platform that won't show the same level of growth. To that end, we've seen a decrease in apple's focus on OSX, they've been slowing the updates on the desktop and laptop lines, their professional software lines seem to languish for years before we see an update. Just look at Aperture and how long it took for an upgrade.

    For me, this issue is the most concern as apple's direction and my needs are seemingly divergent.
     
  5. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #5
    Good point and one that I failed to raise in my initial response. One of theme that I'm finding with apple is control. They found great successes in controlling the retail channel, i.e., apple stores (and by the way it was a great move on their part). Control on iPhone applications, control on internal circuitry for the iPad and presumably on the next iPhone, i.e., A4.

    While Jobs criticized adobe for not being open, I'd say Apple is the most closed and proprietary company. Yeah they have been embracing and pushing some open standards but over all their approach has been control. Even controlling information emanating from their company.
     
  6. OllyW Moderator

    OllyW

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    #6
    I don't support Apple, or any other company.

    I've always found Steve Jobs to be a bit of a prat but it hasn't stopped me from buying their stuff. As long as Apple keep making products which appeal to me then I'll carry on buying them.
     
  7. Hmac macrumors 68020

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    #7
    I'll buy stuff from Apple as long as they make equipment and write software that meets my needs and expectations better than other equipment and software manufacturers. If some other company comes up with a paradigm that works better, I'm there. Frankly, I can't imagine who that would be right now.

    "Social Conscience"? Frankly, I don't care how they treat their workers or other companies. I care about how they treat their customers, and they appear to be treating them just fine.
     
  8. belvdr macrumors 603

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    #8
    In light of the OP's question, I believe buying constitutes supporting.
     
  9. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #9
    I like their products and will continue to buy them as long as they meet my needs.

    The fact that so many people take Apple's and other companies actions so personally is kind of sad and also funny.
     
  10. Hellhammer Moderator

    Hellhammer

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    #10
    When you buy something, you quietly support the company and its ways of manufacturing, selling, advertising etc. If you buy from company that is known to use child labor, you quietly support child labor. If you buy from company that dumps waste to oceans, you quietly support non-ecological waste disposal.

    Best way of supporting is to buy their products and keep in mind what you support in the background
     
  11. Hmac macrumors 68020

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    #11

    I don't think very many people do. We do see a disproportionate number of them here on MR, however.
     
  12. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #12
    I disagree. While certainly numbers do come into play, the people who make these decisions are human and are swayed by emotions at time. Just look at how the stock market fluctuates based on good news/bad news.

    I've been in enough meetings to know that cold hard figures are not the entire deciding factor when it comes to both strategic and tactical decisions a company makes
     
  13. *LTD* macrumors G4

    *LTD*

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    #13
    Jon Stewart is a comedian. An entertainer. Not a scholar. Nor the CEO of a multibillion dollar corporation that has achieved remarkable success.

    They used to make the right choices, the best products, make the right alliances and be on the forefront of technology.

    I wasn't aware this changed.

    Your entire perspective seems to be really skewed.

    Apple *cannot* be the underdog after a certain point of success. You get big enough and popular enough, your "underdog" status is gone. When you're within sights of Exxon Mobil, sitting 3rd largest company in the US, you're as far from "underdog" as a hawk from the moon. Which is not a problem. But Apple still takes the attitude and risk-taking approach of an innovative startup. We tend to attach a bit too much sentimentality to this notion of The Underdog.

    You're taking what Apple does too personally. Why should you care who Apple's enemies are? It's a cutthroat industry. What do I care what corporate moves Apple makes as long as they keep rolling out great gear. It's got nothing to do with me as a consumer. LOL Apple hurt Adobe's feelings. SO WHAT? Patent disputes with HTC. One corporation suing another? And? Do you actually attach some sort of moral analysis to this stuff?? Because no one outside these little tech forums does. Mostly because it doesn't matter.

    Apple is doing exactly what anyone in Jobs' position would do. Do everything, within the law, to destroy any and all competition and become the sole supplier of xyz product or service. "Healthy competition" counts as anyone who can hang with this situation. The others will die or be bought out, etc. That's how it works. It's not bad or good. It's just business. Alliances of convenience are made and then broken. Legal battles are fought. There are winners and losers.

    Apple's chosen to evolve their own vision of how consumers should interact with tech. You either believe in it or you don't. As long as Apple keeps appealing to consumers, whatever they're doing, and as long as it is lawful, it's perfectly fine. Just part of the game.

    Apple's success is predicated on the strength of their products and their compliance with the law in pursuit of same. Period. Everything else is just fluff.
     
  14. Abstract macrumors Penryn

    Abstract

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    #14
    I don't like Apple "the company". I don't even like all of their products. Appropriately enough, the only Apple product I really like are their laptops, and the OS that comes along with it. I just bought a 15" MBP

    I have an iPhone, but I doubt my next mobile is going to be an other iPhone.

    I'm curious about the iPad, but I doubt it would ever get past curiosity. I had the same curiosity over the iPod Touch and iPhone, and it took me 2 years to handle either of them.


    So -- support. I'll support the company for as long as they continue to offer me what I need and want. Also, if they do anything well beyond what I'd consider to be morally responsible, even if my moral standards for corporations are already quite low and easy to satisfy, then I'd stop supporting them.
     
  15. splitpea macrumors 6502a

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    #15
    "Support" Apple?

    Look, the company, their policies, and how they treat their customers, have all become worse and worse over the past decade. But they still produce an operating system that (at least for my needs) is superior... so for now I'm still buying Apple. Don't have to like it, I suppose.
     
  16. Ramius thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #16
    Im impressed by many great answers already.
    I detect some pro-Apple feelings from some, but I´ll try to discuss key points further.

    Hellhammer.
    Google or Adobe don´t need to do anything, they are not locking themselves out of Apples products.

    Anyone who has read the news the last year, has seen that Apple is quietly boicotting Google with small steps. I suspect this is the reason that their Google Maps application on iPhone has not changed or improved much at all lately.


    Maflynn
    When I bought Apple, I had no social concience around their products at all. But becoming a fan, I studied the companys history, and learned how they became so great. Now they seem to do the oposite, by being too arrogant and dissolving partnership with industry leaders. This paints a dark future.

    Apple is definitly a very private brand. Something I find contradictory, because at the same time, they try to be a peoples-brand. With iTunes music store, this does not harm anyone. When they now supposedly are moving into the media-business, its very alarming. Take the Tiger Woods app, which couldnt be published because of public figure ridicule. What if that happens to 60 minutes, Time, Wall Street Journal? This business requires openness and freedom, and Apple needs to change if they are embracing the press and media. I dont think this would hurt them at all, they have everything to gain.


    Buying is supporting

    Buying means supporting. And if you compare this with voting for a president, buying a Mac costs much more. Each time you buy an Apple product, you are putting money into Apples bank account, which their business strengthens from, and allows them to expand and make new products. Without you having anything to say at all againt their policy.

    LTD
    Just because Jon Stewart is a comedian, does this mean he is unable to identify with people? I think his criticism is perfectly right, and using the word "comedy" to weaken his credibility is a very black and white, and old way of judging him.

    You dont need to be a scholar to be able to say whats wrong or right. When millions of people are experiencing censporship of flash on the products they buy from Apple, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to be able to point their finger. Internet is for the common man as well. Its been a long time sinse Arpanet.

    I think my perspective is perfectly clear. But what you say is also very true. Beyond a certain point, you stop being the underdog. True, but you shouldnt stop making products the way that gave you this success. Im painting a picture here of Apples confidence increasing so high, they think they can do whatever they want, not rely on others, and decide our future.

    Im not taking this personal at all. Im taking this on behalf of every person in the world valuing free speech, and cooperation. Their feud with Adobe is not private for Apple. It affects everyone buying Apples products.

    And you claim that Apple operates within the law. Well, you´re from America right? Cause here in Europe we view things differently. Here in Europe, Microsoft has been ordered to adjust their Windows platform to allow other brands to compete. They were abusing their own monopoly, and had to stop. If Apple starts doing the same, I suspect they will be forced to do the same.


    Apple makes great products, and this is why people buy them. Its why I bought a Macbook, which currently supports flash. But I sympathise for people buying iPads, who are experiencing a censored internet, because emperor Steve Jobs doesnt like flash.

    What I have done with this post, is to indicate several factors, pointing towards Apple wanting more and more controll for themselves, and excluding others in the process. The more and more they exclude, I think for me - the less reason I have for buying their products. I just hope they dont cross the border of trying to controll free speech, but as several journalists has pointed out, they already have. This is if you view making an application as a form of expression.

    I bought a Mac because I learned they finally had overcome these old arguments that a Mac cant do this or that. Before it was, a Mac cant play games, cant read my formats, cant hook up exchange server, doesnt work with Windows. Apple overcame all this and became a universal platform that could do anything.

    Are we going back into a cycle of where Apple products cant do things?
     
  17. roadbloc macrumors G3

    roadbloc

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    #17
    In that case, so is mine. :rolleyes:
     
  18. *LTD* macrumors G4

    *LTD*

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    #18
    Facts do not bear this out. At all. Apple continues to be ranked #1 in customer service, several years in succession.

    I'm not sure how the "company" has become "worse." Apple as a "company" has performed beyond anyone's expectations, both in terms of market value and profitability. If you expect them to be "nice" to competitors or "play fair" for the sake of not hurting anyone's feelings, there's a bridge leading to nowhere I've got to sell you, along with some swampland.

    As far as their "policies" go, they can be whatever they like as long as they are lawful. Apparently the bulk of the market has no problem with them. But a minority of MacRumors' members definitely have a bug up their a** about something. A usual, it's a Whine and Cheese party.
     
  19. yellow Moderator emeritus

    yellow

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    #19
    I will absolutely be supporting Apple in the future... seeing as my financial future is well tied to Apple.
     
  20. Plutonius macrumors 603

    Plutonius

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    #20
    Apple isn't and never has been like a sports team which you rooted for.

    Apple is a business whose prime motivation is to make money for it's share holders.

    If you like the products, buy them. Otherwise, if you don't like the products or you need flash on your mobile products, don't.
     
  21. Ramius thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #21
    Again, another black and white way of viewing things. Do you honestly believe that the choice is so simple?

    Its like a mousetrap, it has very tempting cheese, but it will hurt you if you eat the cheese. In this case, the trap is much smaller and not as brutal, and the cheese is bigger.

    I think its important not get off topic here people. Im not asking for my personal choices to be judged. I am asking you, if these factors I´ve listed will affect you?

    So far, I see that most of you will infact keep buying their products. Even if Apple now currently is limiting the content you can find on internet. This is interesting to learn.

    I myself still enjoy the iPhone 3GS of mine, even though I cant see alot of stuff in Flash. I suspect this is more bothersome with a big iPad though.

    Personally Im currently undecided if I should keep on buying Apple or not, but studying their business moves helps. If they keep on excluding others and limiting the experience, I might pull my plug.

    And just to counter this. I absolutely think Apple has been the sort of company you cheer for, and just seing Steve Jobs speeches alone the last ten years, proves that Apple values and listens to feedback for developing products.

    Dont ever make the mistake of saying the users opinions are unimportant.
     
  22. rhett7660 macrumors G4

    rhett7660

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    #22
    Apple is only limiting what you can see on two products. Granted these two products are big but it is still only two products. If you want flash or need flash then maybe a laptop is in order. It isn't a secret the iPhone or the iPad doesn't do flash.

    As for me never really given flash a second thought, this has been true for me since I long purchased my first Mac.

    As long as they continue to offer me a product that fits into what I am looking for then yes I will continue to buy.
     
  23. ChazUK macrumors 603

    ChazUK

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    #23
    Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.1-update1; en-gb; Nexus One Build/ERE27) AppleWebKit/530.17 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/530.17)

    I don't "support" apple but I do buy their products if they suit.my needs.
     
  24. elppa macrumors 68040

    elppa

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    #24
    You seem to have taken a very biased viewpoint in making out it was Apple trying to make enemies. It takes two to fall out.

    It was Adobe's decision to not use modern APIs and be slow to the party with cocoa, universal binaries, 64 bit, Mac OS X and any other Apple technology (even though 1/2 Adobe's CS suite customers use the Macintosh platform). Full flash doesn't even run on any smartphone yet, it keeps getting delayed. For a journalism student I'd suggest you spend less time getting sucked into Adobe's PR machine.

    As for Google, well Google keeps entering more and more of Apple's core markets. Google CEO sat on Apple's board when Apple were developing iPhone, not the other way round. Only recently has Apple entered search. For a journalism student I'd suggest you spend less time getting sucked into Google's PR machine.

    Apple is also a bigger company than Adobe and Google.
     
  25. ChazUK macrumors 603

    ChazUK

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    #25
    Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.1-update1; en-gb; Nexus One Build/ERE27) AppleWebKit/530.17 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/530.17)

    I love the "Eric Schmidt sat on the board and entered apples market" whine. Google bought Android INC back in 2005 which was public knowledge. Google effectively entered the smartphone arena in 2005.

    http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/aug2005/tc20050817_0949_tc024.htm

    if the fools at apple didn't see the impending clash of interests then its their problem.
     

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