Definitely reformatting - always have done with major OS updates. Plus, I'd love to take advantage of ZFS support, if it's available.
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Will you upgrade or do a fresh install of Leopard?
- Thread starter lamina
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I'll be reformatting, I don't install that many programs for the hassle to outweigh the greater "new" feeling from having a fresh install.
I'm going to side with the minority and upgrade. When 10.4.8 destroyed my airport, I did an archive and install to 10.4.3, then the combo update to 10.4.7. It took bloody ages. I can't imagine how long a clean install would take when coupled with adding all of my applications and files back to the mac.
Doesn't an upgrade and a clean install both put a new system folder in anyway? What's the difference, besides getting rid of the userspace and library with a clean install?
Doesn't an upgrade and a clean install both put a new system folder in anyway? What's the difference, besides getting rid of the userspace and library with a clean install?
Even though I'll actually be getting a new Mac with Leopard as a matter of course I'll still reformat it and reinstall. That way I clear out any unwanted software entirely, remove languages and unwanted drivers (printers etc). I also remove all the other languages from iLife, iWork , etc.
Reformat. I just got my first MB when C2D came out, so I want to start clean and get rid of all the junk I fill it with. By the time 10.5 comes out, it will be time for a reformat and a fresh clean install. Plus I want to see how 10.5 run at peak performance, I don't want all my crap bringing it down.
The Stig
The Stig
When I eventually move my iBook to Leopard I'll probably do an upgrade.
I keep my hard disk fairly tidy, regularly deleting things. Perhaps because I currently only have a 40gb drive with about 6gb left (upgrading to 80gg this month though).
I can't really see I'd get any tangible advantage from reformatting - just a load of hassle trying to get everything back the way it was before. Is there any real benefit to stating over compared to upgrading? I mean I can see why there is in Windows - a fresh Windows install runs so much better - but my iBook runs just as well now as it did last year when I bought it. I can't see that it's necessary in OS X unless you leave stuff all over the place and need a 'spring clean' now and again.
I keep my hard disk fairly tidy, regularly deleting things. Perhaps because I currently only have a 40gb drive with about 6gb left (upgrading to 80gg this month though).
I can't really see I'd get any tangible advantage from reformatting - just a load of hassle trying to get everything back the way it was before. Is there any real benefit to stating over compared to upgrading? I mean I can see why there is in Windows - a fresh Windows install runs so much better - but my iBook runs just as well now as it did last year when I bought it. I can't see that it's necessary in OS X unless you leave stuff all over the place and need a 'spring clean' now and again.
I am curious about ZFS, this may need a clean install. I prefer Archive and install, because I believe this to be a combination of:
1) A fresh install of the OS.
2) A migration for existing apps and data.
A clean install after this will still be possible.
I think for an upgrade you do not have sufficient free space! [edit] > : I am sorry, forgot about the new HD.
1) A fresh install of the OS.
2) A migration for existing apps and data.
A clean install after this will still be possible.
I think for an upgrade you do not have sufficient free space! [edit] > : I am sorry, forgot about the new HD.
I'll do a clean install for a variety of reasons.
I only do this for each new release of the operating system though.
- Firstly, I like to see how Apple is setting OSX up by default. I like to see what settings they choose and what a new Mac buyer will see when they buy a Leopard Mac.
- Secondly, I find that having to reconfigure my settings (and there aren't terribly many of them) gives me an excuse and a means to find out more about my new operating system. It gives me the excuse to go through the preferences and see what exactly is new and different in Leopard.
I only do this for each new release of the operating system though.
I'll wait and see what success/problems others have. Most likely, I will just perform an upgrade.
SuperDuper is excellent for this purpose. I use it myself - haven't had a problem with it, and it's saved my data more than once
Migration Assistant
How much choice does Migration Assistant give you when copying things over? I haven't used it before. My plan is to back up Tiger to an external then reformatting my machine. From there after Leopard is installed I'd like to copy over passwords, bookmarks, email, music, documents, etc... pretty much everything except for applications. How is keychain information handled? For instance, you have a different password for your login. I assume M.A. is smart enough to use your new one. If you don't migrate applications but you do email/safari bookmarks, does the entire Library get copied over or just what's needed? etc...
EDIT: To backup my computer I just insert and boot from the Tiger Install DVD and run Disk Utility.
How much choice does Migration Assistant give you when copying things over? I haven't used it before. My plan is to back up Tiger to an external then reformatting my machine. From there after Leopard is installed I'd like to copy over passwords, bookmarks, email, music, documents, etc... pretty much everything except for applications. How is keychain information handled? For instance, you have a different password for your login. I assume M.A. is smart enough to use your new one. If you don't migrate applications but you do email/safari bookmarks, does the entire Library get copied over or just what's needed? etc...
EDIT: To backup my computer I just insert and boot from the Tiger Install DVD and run Disk Utility.
Heh, I don't bother with Migration Assistant because I clone my disk with SuperDuper to back it up, and I know what needs to go where if I do a manual restore after a major OS update
For example, if you want your Mail archives to remain intact, copy over the ~/Library/Mail folder from the backup (where ~ is your user folder). If you want to be even more precise, use Mail's import feature and only import the mailboxes you actually want to keep from the backup.
Not unless Apple has changed the process for Leopard. Here's a summary of the three options (too bad this poll didn't include all of them!):
1. Erase & Install (ie, clean install, reformat): everything on your hard drive is deleted, you get a completely new system, fresh as if nobody had ever used it. No third-party applications, no personal data. Brand new.
2. Archive & Install: your old system folder is moved out of the way, to "Previous Systems" and a brand new system folder is installed. New versions of Apple's applications are installed in /Applications, but all third party apps are left untouched. Your personal data is also left untouched. This is the option I recommend for most people.
3. Upgrade: nothing is moved or deleted. The new system is simply copied on top of the old system, leaving any extra junk it doesn't know about, fully intact. What you end up with is a mishmash of new stuff plus a bunch of old stuff that could have been deleted. If you're lucky like IJ Reilly, none of the old stuff interferes and only the new stuff is active. If you're unlucky like the many people who will cry and complain after they install the upgrade, things might be unstable because something old will conflict with the new system in a way that the installer didn't anticipate.
Honestly, I'm surprised to see so many people say they will reformat. I still think Archive & Install is about the best install method around for the vast majority of cases.
Even if ZFS is available as an option to install your system onto, I'd avoid it. Through 5 revisions of OS X, the operating system still has trouble being installed on anything other than plain old, case-insensitive HFS+. It's practically unusable on UFS because so many Carbon apps assume HFS+ features that aren't there (and Apple still hasn't generalized the filesystem layer so that UFS properly emulates those features in a way that the affected apps never know it). Even case-sensitive HFS+ has problems because many apps assume a case-insensitive filesystem and have problems when writing two different cases of the same filename (Readme, readme, README, etc) and expecting the other versions to be overwritten.
If ZFS is there in the release, I'll definitely still install the OS on HFS+, and then I'll keep an eye out for reports on ZFS. If it does well, I'll gradually convert data partitions and drives to use it.
I've always done the upgrade, never a clean install. And I've yet to have a single problem because of it. People might have a preference to erase and install fresh but there's no real need to do it for a home user.
Archive and install seems simple enough and I might do that for Leopard. But never an erase (reformat as some people say) and install.
Archive and install seems simple enough and I might do that for Leopard. But never an erase (reformat as some people say) and install.
I don't consider myself so lucky. I've done numerous upgrades on more than one Mac. The only "stuff" that conflicted was (ironically) a version of Virex that Apple bundled with .Mac. I believe it was the 10.3 to 10.4 upgrade which conflicted with Virex, causing a phantom process to hog the CPU. It was a well-documented issue that required a simple uninstall. This kind of thing is the exception rather than the rule, as the vast majority of applications don't install kernel extensions and thus can't conflict with the operating system. They may not work, but they don't conflict either. Besides, if you just go ahead and reinstall them, you're right back where you started.
All that being said, archive and install isn't a bad route to go for the paranoid. At least it isn't nearly as disruptive as the erase and install route.
Now why would you throw away installation disks of software you bought?
Myth.
Fact is; that is exactly what "update" does.
edit: read bankshot's post (#70 in the thread), it'll clarify everything
You reformat the drive as a means to erase it and then perform a clean install. It's called a clean install because there's nothing else on the drive. Effectively, they're the same thing.
As for you, yeah, an upgrade should suffice.
As for you, yeah, an upgrade should suffice.
I've got everything backed up so if I do a clean install I will have all my stuff. Not sure if I'll do a clean install or an upgrade though yet.