Williams F1 looking out for new engine partner?

iGav

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Original poster
Mar 9, 2002
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Now this could be an interesting development... Williams might be on the hunt for a new engine partner. I know they've had an uneasy relationship for the last few years with BMW, but I wasn't expecting this.

So BMW might be looking into buying Credit Suisse's 65% share in Sauber?? hmmmmmmm interesting.

Sir. Frank has apparently made contact with Cosworth and Toyota... not sure who I'd favour there, Cosworths new '05 spec engine is a huge step forward from last years engine, and Toyota are rumoured to have one of, if not the most powerful engine in F1 (Honda might edge them). I'm surprised he's not called Honda or Renault... the very words Williams-Honda and Williams-Renault send shudders down my spine! :eek:

I reckon he should just give Todt a bell... ;) :p

Rinky dink link

So yeah... Williams-Ferrari :p
 

brap

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May 10, 2004
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iGav said:
So BMW might be looking into buying Credit Suisse's 65% share in Sauber?? hmmmmmmm interesting.
Sauber? The guys who run Ferrari's old kit? Or have they stopped doing that nowadays? I'll admit, I don't follow the news in-between seasons :p
Sir. Frank has apparently made contact with Cosworth and Toyota... not sure who I'd favour there, Cosworths new '05 spec engine is a huge step forward from last years engine, and Toyota are rumoured to have one of, if not the most powerful engine in F1 (Honda might edge them). I'm surprised he's not called Honda or Renault... the very words Williams-Honda and Williams-Renault send shudders down my spine! :eek:
Aaaaahhhh, Williams-Renault! Those were the days..! Active suspension, wide slicks... what I wouldn't do to see one of the new Ferraris with that crazy kit present day. I digress.
I suspect if true, Toyota may be interested, since all they seem to be doing is pouring money down the tube with F1. Perhaps a little retrenchment is in order.
 
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iGav

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Original poster
Mar 9, 2002
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brap said:
Sauber? The guys who run Ferrari's old kit? Or have they stopped doing that nowadays? I'll admit, I don't follow the news in-between seasons :p
Yep... well they still run Ferrari's engine.

They did however switch from Bridgestone to Michelin for this season and joined forces with the other teams to form a gentlemans agreement on testing limitations, some suggest there is friction between the 2 teams.

Good on Sauber though for deciding to plough their own course... they're an excellent team, with a solid history.


brap said:
Aaaaahhhh, Williams-Renault! Those were the days..! Active suspension, wide slicks... what I wouldn't do to see one of the new Ferraris with that crazy kit present day.
and ABS, Traction Control, Launch Control, flexible surfaces the works :eek: and people moan about how todays cars drive themselves :p

I have to admit, Williams-Honda has a nice bit of '80's nostalgia to it. :)
 
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kettle

macrumors 65816
Right at the back of my mind I have a secret little hope for the turbo and turbo boost control to be back in formula one. The pit stops seem dull now and so I could see loosing them all together to put the race back on the track.

Hopefully this would also create good racing even if some teams and engine manufacturers can't throw the same amount of money at the perfect solution.

The boost would also help get around the slipstream overtaking problems, drivers could use some boost to get around the turbulence wall they are following and then ease up on the fuel when they're clear again. This will also put the race toward the driver skill and away from the business skills and finance that seem to be winning races these days.
 
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Maritan

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Nov 6, 2003
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Sauber is actually running Ferrari's 05 engine. In essence, Ferrari is using Sauber as a test bed to see how the new engine fares with regards the regulations.
 
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Lord Blackadder

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May 7, 2004
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I thought BMW had the most powerful engine when they got back into F1. What happened there?

I like the idea of turbos myself, but it would be hard to get a turbo to go two races, don't you think?
 
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MOFS

macrumors 65816
Feb 27, 2003
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Durham, UK
iGav said:
Now this could be an interesting development... Williams might be on the hunt for a new engine partner. I know they've had an uneasy relationship for the last few years with BMW, but I wasn't expecting this.

So BMW might be looking into buying Credit Suisse's 65% share in Sauber?? hmmmmmmm interesting.

Sir. Frank has apparently made contact with Cosworth and Toyota... not sure who I'd favour there, Cosworths new '05 spec engine is a huge step forward from last years engine, and Toyota are rumoured to have one of, if not the most powerful engine in F1 (Honda might edge them). I'm surprised he's not called Honda or Renault... the very words Williams-Honda and Williams-Renault send shudders down my spine! :eek:

I reckon he should just give Todt a bell... ;) :p

Rinky dink link

So yeah... Williams-Ferrari :p
Is this the ed of Williams F1 as a mjor racing force then?

From what I remember, only Jordan Mugen-Honda have come anywhere near winning a championship with a customer engine in modern times. The only thing they could hope for is that Cosworth go into F1 in a big way or Volkswagen (or any other VW or GM brand) come in and give em' an engine. I'd be be surprised if they get back to the dizzy heights with Mansell, Prost, Hill or Villeneuve for a looooong time.
 
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iGav

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Mar 9, 2002
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Lord Blackadder said:
I thought BMW had the most powerful engine when they got back into F1. What happened there?
I don't think BMW have had the most powerful engine for awhile, I don't think the Ferrari is either... word has it that the Toyota is bang up there and may just exceed Honda in output. Thing is, Honda stated last season that they expect to hit 1000bhp sometime this year, incredible figures from a 3 litre naturally aspirated engine. :eek:


MOFS said:
Is this the ed of Williams F1 as a mjor racing force then?
You can never write a team like Williams off, but it could raise questions about their competitiveness in the future.

That said, with the current engine rules the customer engines are identical to the works engines now, so in that respect it's not quite the disadvantage it once was, but certainly having the backing of a major manufacturer is handy... especially when it comes to the early stages of developing a car.
 
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MOFS

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Feb 27, 2003
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Durham, UK
iGav said:
You can never write a team like Williams off, but it could raise questions about their competitiveness in the future.

That said, with the current engine rules the customer engines are identical to the works engines now, so in that respect it's not quite the disadvantage it once was, but certainly having the backing of a major manufacturer is handy... especially when it comes to the early stages of developing a car.
I think the main problem with being a customer is that they don't get the money from the manufacturers to sponsor you. I read somewhere that Sato brought £60million from Honda to BAR as sponsorship.
 
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iGav

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Mar 9, 2002
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MOFS said:
I think the main problem with being a customer is that they don't get the money from the manufacturers to sponsor you. I read somewhere that Sato brought £60million from Honda to BAR as sponsorship.
I agree, you have to end up paying for your engines, which is of course an issue... and affects spending on other areas of the car. It's difficult to imagine how much more Williams could cut back though, they're on record as saying that Montoya and Schu Jr. left because of the wage bill, and as incredible as it sounds... both Frank and Patrick have both gotten rid of their private jet and helicopters respectively.

I'm not sure if BMW actually pay Williams anything in sponsorship though, I think they offset that with free engines although I could be (and probably am) wrong.

It's interesting, a couple of months ago I was reading an article about F1 budgets, and often how Ferrari are inaccurately thought to have the largest budget... yet it's possible to, with a degree of accuracy estimate Ferrari's budget, yet because of the secrecy regarding BMW, Mercedes and Honda's deals with Williams, McLaren and B.A.R that their spending in developing the engines is pretty much an unknown and as such makes estimating those teams budgets hugely difficult.

All I know is that Toyota have by far and away the largest guaranteed budget of any team on the grid.
 
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Lord Blackadder

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May 7, 2004
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iGav said:
...because of the secrecy regarding BMW, Mercedes and Honda's deals with Williams, McLaren and B.A.R that their spending in developing the engines is pretty much an unknown and as such makes estimating those teams budgets hugely difficult.

All I know is that Toyota have by far and away the largest guaranteed budget of any team on the grid.
One reason for the continued secrecy may be the lack of results. I doubt that engine manufactures of the stature of BMW or Mercedes would do half-arsed devlopment to save cash. I'm sure that they don't want us to know how much they've paid to not win much the last few years. Toyota has taken a ton of flak in that regard.
 
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