Win2k Problems with ._ files names mac created- need help!

[maclamb]

When I was using as mac at work last year it left lots of files on the windows server with a ._ at the start of the files name.
two questions:
1. is there any way to prevent this in the future?
2. How do I get rid of these files - Windows reports "file not found" even though I can see it in the File Expolorer windw (Windoze sux) and I can't seem to delete them

 

[Jonathan Amend]

If by "File Expolorer windw (Windoze sux)" you meant "Windows Explorer (and I like making childish insults)", then you shouldn't be having a problem with deleting files that start with ".". The "." character is supposedely not valid at the start of a filename so Windows Explorer won't let you rename a file if it starts with one. You can however move or rename such files without a problem. Windows won't check the file name for a "." if a program is doing the renaming or if it's done from the command prompt.

If you still need to rename a file to something starting with ".":
1) Open the command prompt by going to Start > Programs > Accessories > Command Prompt.
2) Type "ren [old filename] [new filename]" less the quotes.

If you weren't talking about Windows Explorer, then you delete the files with the command prompt as well: "del [filename]".

Unfortunately Apple doesn't like adhering to Microsoft's (or M$ as you would probably call it) rules so if the files are a side effect of some Mac based program then there's probably nothing you can do about it.

 

[maclamb]

Thank you but I have tried all that and actually:

1. DOS cannot "see" ._ file names - the dir command does not show the file and del and ren don't work as you suggest (yes, I had already tried that - I'm actually pretty windoze literate)
2. Windows explorer CAN delete and rename most of these files.
but there a re a few that it cannot and I was trying to get help with those

I was looking for help from people with experience actually doing this.

 

[encro]

When a Macintosh file is transferred to a system other than HFS+ it uses ._ to signify a seperated resource fork from the main datafork.

While the resource fork is not required under OS X they are still used for conveinience sake.

Normally if the resouce fork (._) cannot be deleted its because of an illegal character in the filename. You may have to delete the fork from your Mac to remove it (I'm not aware of how to do this from DOS yet).

 

[maclamb]

encro

thanks - that's the help I was looking for.
I was just satarting to think I might have to do it from the mac

 

[Independence]

i remember 4 years ago when i used a FAT formatted floppy with a clamshell ibook running MacOS 9.1 there was a lot of garbage on the floppy after i was finished.

 

[caveman_uk]

Originally posted by Jonathan Amend

Unfortunately Apple doesn't like adhering to Microsoft's (or M$ as you would probably call it) rules so if the files are a side effect of some Mac based program then there's probably nothing you can do about it.

Actually OS X is adhering to a much older standard - it's the way Unix stores files that are meant to be hidden.

Unfortunately Microsoft doesn't like adhering to Unix's rules so if the files are visible it's a side effect of some ignorant microsoft ideology so there's probably nothing you can do about it.

 

[Jonathan Amend]

maclamb, if you actually have access to DOS then I have a sneaking suspicion that you're not doing this with Windows 2000. If you're accessing these files over the network from a Windows 9x box, then like Independence's sig suggests, move on to greater things.

Originally posted by caveman_uk
Actually OS X is adhering to a much older standard - it's the way Unix stores files that are meant to be hidden.

Unfortunately Microsoft doesn't like adhering to Unix's rules so if the files are visible it's a side effect of some ignorant microsoft ideology so there's probably nothing you can do about it.

Hmm... it sure does suck that Windows doesn't adhere to Unix filenaming rules. Oh wait, I just remembered, Windows isn't Unix! To hide a file on a FAT/NTFS partition, you set it as Hidden... complex. Is Windows to blame if foreign software does things that shouldn't be done to it?

 

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by Jonathan Amend
...
Hmm... it sure does suck that Windows doesn't adhere to Unix filenaming rules. Oh wait, I just remembered, Windows isn't Unix! To hide a file on a FAT/NTFS partition, you set it as Hidden... complex. Is Windows to blame if foreign software does things that shouldn't be done to it?

Funny. You were just arguing that OS X was to blame for not adhering to Windows standards and now you're excusing Windows not doing the same.

 

[Jonathan Amend]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Funny. You were just arguing that OS X was to blame for not adhering to Windows standards and now you're excusing Windows not doing the same.

I'm not excusing Windows for not adhering to Unix filenaming rules. I said that it doesn't have to. I don't remember Windows ever doing anything weird when running alongside Unix, and Windows filenaming schemes don't have anything in them that go against ones in Unix as far as I know. Windows also doesn't leave a torrent of junk files in its wake when doing stuff over the network. Windows can do what it wants on Windows and Unix can do what it wants on Unix but when they work with each other they should follow each other's rules.

 

[slowtreme]

If you are using Windows Explorer and you can see the ._ files then you have enabled "Show all files (Hidden)" in the options. Win2000 allows you to drag these in the the trash. UNLESS - This is a network/Domain machine and you to not have rights to remove the files.

Win2000 has CMD.com which almost everyone calls DOS. It looks and works exacly the same as Command.com in Win9x based OSes.

With that said, Mac OS or specifically the Finder is the "bad apple" here. It leaves Dstore files in every directory to help the Finder act spacially. I don't think the Finder should record information on mapped drives. It's just bad etiquette. This is something the Windows Registry does, and doesn't interfere with O.P.F. (Other people's file-systems)

 

[notkevin]

Originally posted by slowtreme
With that said, Mac OS or specifically the Finder is the "bad apple" here. It leaves Dstore files in every directory to help the Finder act spacially. I don't think the Finder should record information on mapped drives. It's just bad etiquette. This is something the Windows Registry does, and doesn't interfere with O.P.F. (Other people's file-systems)

I dont know, I think it is a good idea. I like to organize folders and files a specific way. I don't care if it is local or networked storage it make things easier for me. Who cares if it leaves a bunch of files that Windows users can see? They do not take much much disk space and are harmless to windows users.

 

[slowtreme]

One reason it's bad, besides the clutter, is that on drives that you only have Read Access to, Finder can not write files... Essentially breaking the spacial Finder. Since Explorer stores all this stuff in the registry, It's always available. Two different ways of doing the same thing.

In Apple's defence. Windows does store thumbs.db files in folders that it has created thumbnail views in for quick loading. It doesn't do this to every folder it ever touches though. Just where images are involved. I don't think it does that to network drives though.

 

[Independence]

Originally posted by notkevin
Who cares if it leaves a bunch of files that Windows users can see? They do not take much much disk space and are harmless to windows users.

now this is where you tell Windows users like myself exactly WHY we would want that garbage scattered throughout our filesystems.

 

[cubist]

Correcting misconceptions in this thread.

I don't care for the ._ files either, but Mac resource information has to be put somewhere. (Mac OS 9 created files called RESOURCE.DAT and FINDER.DAT. Mac OS X also creates a file called .ds_store.) As another poster mentioned, these files are "hidden" with the DOS/Windows attribute "h". To make them visible, either enable seeing hidden/system files in your Folder Options, or use CMD to go to the folder and say "attrib -h ._*" then "erase ._*". The files are not hurting anything and take very little space. Why not just ignore them?

There is nothing illegal in Windows about files starting with dots.

Files starting with dots are automatically hidden in Unix. Unix does not have a hidden "h" attribute on files.

Windows does not put file information in the Registry. There are "extended attributes" in NTFS and HPFS, but I don't think today's Windows puts icon or other resource information anywhere; it's generated through associations. You cannot have a custom icon per file. The "thumb.db" file is an interesting idea, maybe that's new in XP.

 

[slowtreme]

thumbs.db has existed in every version of Windows that supports "Thumbnail views", it's not really that new - just hidden. But again, it only creates the files on drives it thinks it owns. (Local drives or mapped drives given a letter)

Windows does not put file information in the Registry.

Well of course it does, but specifically I mean that it stores "windows views" and pixel diminsions in the registry. This is what the OSX finder is putting in the dsstore files. The same info, just a different way of handling it.

 

[MacBoyX]

Maclamb...

I go thru this DAILY. I use all Macs at home and all PCs at work and I move Webpage files (asp, html, php) back and forth all the time. I have this issue going from Mac to PC. I have my Windows Explorer set to show all files. I do a search on the folder for ._*. Then I just grab all the files in the search window and delete them. I have NO PROBLEMS getting rid of them at all.

I also have the problem that when I move file from the PC to the Mac, they become all uppercase in their lettering :*(.

Try the "SHOW ALL FILES" it should work.

Welcome to the world of interoperability.

macboyX

 

[g808]

1. is there any way to prevent this in the future?

i don't think there is a way to prevent this as others have indicating this is a behavior of OS X.

2. How do I get rid of these files - Windows reports "file not found" even though I can see it in the File Expolorer windw (Windoze sux) and I can't seem to delete them

If you don't have access to a windows machine, then here's a way to do it from your mac:
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20021118060850652

You may not be able to remove those files from windows explorer if source file is currently in use since it will require the use of the property file (._* file).

 

[SiliconAddict]

You could always write a quick and dirty batch script on your windows system that deletes these files and then run it as scheduled task once a day/week/month/etc. The task scheduler can be found under the control panel.