MP 7,1 Windows 10 without Bootcamp

[jaapaap79]

I’ve got a MacPro 7,1 but for my work I have to use Windows 10. I’d like to do a fresh Windows only install without Bootcamp and remove any MacOS.

I’m struggling a bit after turning off T2 and allowing to boot from the Windows installer USB drive, it’s just stuck on the Windows logo.

I’ve tried injecting the drivers from Bootcamp into boot.wim and install.wim but it still get stuck.

Is there anything else I could try?

 

[apostolosdt]

Any reason you don't want to run virtualized Windows 10? Running it from the system's disk or from an external NVMe performs like a standard installation.

 

[jaapaap79]

Thanks for the suggestion. I don’t have great experiences with virtualization, especially on the GPU pass-through front.

My current setup has a Vega II with 2 LG 5k monitors attached and I’d like everything to work smoothly in Windows 10 (meaning at full resolution and being able to use the card for compute).

For me this means as few layers as possible, hence I’m looking for a native installation.

 

[prefuse07]

I'm curious -- is there any specific reason why you want to totally remove macOS?

I mean, the machine IS a macintosh afterall... Why not just install Windows 10 via Bootcamp (which will give you all of the drivers for your machine inside of Windows) and then just never Bootcamp back into macOS?

This means that no matter what, even if you power off your machine, whenever you power back up, you will be booting into Windows. (This will occur until you select "bootcamp back into macOS" from within the bootcamp menu in Windows)

It's the same thing as what you are after, and you get a full native install of Windows with the Mac's drivers preloaded, so all you would have to go looking for are any additional hardware drivers (i.e. if you have an aftermarket GPU, for example: how I am using a Gigabyte RX-6800XT, I had to install the AMD Adrenaline drivers in Windows).

Bootcamp is basically just a bootloader that lets you switch between macOS and Windows seamlessly. It's nothing more than that. You are still performing a full native install of Windows regardless.

BTW -- Windows 11 runs even better than 10 does, on the 7,1.

 

[apostolosdt]

Thanks for the suggestion. I don’t have great experiences with virtualization, especially on the GPU pass-through front.

My current setup has a Vega II with 2 LG 5k monitors attached and I’d like everything to work smoothly in Windows 10 (meaning at full resolution and being able to use the card for compute).

For me this means as few layers as possible, hence I’m looking for a native installation.

Understood and respected, of course. Although I do that, via Parallels, on all my Mac Pros and Minis (yes!), with very good performance, I guess prefuse07's advice is your best choice (especially with the Windows 11 vs. 10 remarks).

 

[bmoraski]

Im surprised you want to turn your Mac Pro 7,1 into a Windows only machine.. Expensive PC.

 

[jaapaap79]

I'm curious -- is there any specific reason why you want to totally remove macOS?

I mean, the machine IS a macintosh afterall... Why not just install Windows 10 via Bootcamp (which will give you all of the drivers for your machine inside of Windows) and then just never Bootcamp back into macOS?

This means that no matter what, even if you power off your machine, whenever you power back up, you will be booting into Windows. (This will occur until you select "bootcamp back into macOS" from within the bootcamp menu in Windows)

It's the same thing as what you are after, and you get a full native install of Windows with the Mac's drivers preloaded, so all you would have to go looking for are any additional hardware drivers (i.e. if you have an aftermarket GPU, for example: how I am using a Gigabyte RX-6800XT, I had to install the AMD Adrenaline drivers in Windows).

Bootcamp is basically just a bootloader that lets you switch between macOS and Windows seamlessly. It's nothing more than that. You are still performing a full native install of Windows regardless.

BTW -- Windows 11 runs even better than 10 does, on the 7,1.

Thanks. I will try this. The Windows 10 will have Bitlocker and once installed, I don’t think I will be able to boot back into Windows 10 if I ever switch to MacOS, so I would prefer it not to even be an option. Perhaps I could remove the Bootcamp utility from Windows 10 and remove the MacOS partition and resize.

 

[jaapaap79]

Im surprised you want to turn your Mac Pro 7,1 into a Windows only machine.. Expensive PC.

I own the machine already. Converting it to what I need for my current job, after it has served its purpose in the previous one, makes more sense to me than buying another machine. It’s not like I bought it as a PC.

 

[prefuse07]

Thanks. I will try this. The Windows 10 will have Bitlocker and once installed, I don’t think I will be able to boot back into Windows 10 if I ever switch to MacOS, so I would prefer it not to even be an option. Perhaps I could remove the Bootcamp utility from Windows 10 and remove the MacOS partition and resize.

Again, I think you're making this harder than it has to be...

All Bitlocker does is encrypt drives: in your case, you want to encrypt the drive that will contain Windows, and this appears to be possible with macOS on the machine, though you should be using separate drives for each OS (See below for more).

THIS is a bit outdated, but it might work, also see THIS -- according to these links, you need to start with FileVault on the macOS side of things (again, since this IS a Macintosh computer). Once you've got that running, Bootcamp into Windows and you should be able to set up Bitlocker. Do note that the 7,1 does NOT have a TPM, and you want to do all of this for UEFI.

Lastly -- one note of caution: I looked into this some more and it looks like Bitlocker has issues with Macs that have T2 chips, especially if you try to use both OS' on the same drive with different partitions, so I would highly recommend you use the stock SSD for macOS, and then add in a separate drive for Windows.

Also, if you are successful with this: if you can report back, it may help any future members that may be looking into this same thing.

Good luck!

 

[tsialex]

You should never remove macOS from the factory SSD. You need Recovery running from the factory SSD for configuration purposes and if you have any problems without Recovery/macOS, you will be in a state that only another Mac running Apple Configurator will be capable of reviving the Mac Pro. Will be a very time consuming and expensive repair that is totally avoidable.

It's a very bad idea, don't do it, get another SSD to run Windows.

 

[jaapaap79]

Thanks, both. Quite disappointed that I will have to purchase extra hardware to run Windows, especially since I’ve got the 8TB factory SSD, but I guess it is what it is.

 

[tsialex]

Thanks, both. Quite disappointed that I will have to purchase extra hardware to run Windows, especially since I’ve got the 8TB factory SSD, but I guess it is what it is.

It's a matter of when and how much you gonna spend.

You can spend the SSD and adapter cost upfront or you can choose to have the down time + money for the SSD and adapter + all the repair expenses later.

While some people think different, to me is a no brainer to invest some little money upfront to avoid a lot of headaches later on.

 

[jaapaap79]

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the advice.

 

[h9826790]

Thanks, both. Quite disappointed that I will have to purchase extra hardware to run Windows, especially since I’ve got the 8TB factory SSD, but I guess it is what it is.

A 1TB NVMe is very cheap nowadays (especially if you compare that to the cost of 7,1).

Anyway, the suggestion is "run Windows from another independent SSD", but not "don't utilise that 8TB Apple SSD".

You can still split the interal 8TB into two partitions. 1TB for macOS (if you beleive its too much, you can make it 512GB, or even 256GB). This is your ultimate emergency full OS to work with (of course, you also has Recovery Partition, but that's not a full OS, only has limited function).

Then you can format the remaining 7TB (or above) partition into NTFS (or ExFAT). So that you can utilise this part in Windows. You can still install software onto this part if you want to. But at least, you can use this 7TB as high speed project drive / data storage.

 

[tsialex]

A 1TB NVMe is very cheap nowadays (especially if you compare that to the cost of 7,1).

Anyway, the suggestion is "run Windows from another independent SSD", but not "don't utilise that 8TB Apple SSD".

You can still split the interal 8TB into two partitions. 1TB for macOS (if you beleive its too much, you can make it 512GB, or even 256GB). This is your ultimate emergency full OS to work with (of course, you also has Recovery Partition, but that's not a full OS, only has limited function).

Then you can format the remaining 7TB (or above) partition into NTFS (or ExFAT). So that you can utilise this part in Windows. You can still install software onto this part if you want to. But at least, you can use this 7TB as high speed project drive / data storage.

Just to add a note, the Recovery partition can't be removed from the Apple SSD. You can resize the data macOS partition (the big one) and add a ExFAT or NTFS one, but you can't delete anything.

If you delete Recovery from a T2 Mac, Apple Configuration will be needed to restore it.

 

[mattspace]

Understood and respected, of course. Although I do that, via Parallels, on all my Mac Pros and Minis (yes!), with very good performance, I guess prefuse07's advice is your best choice (especially with the Windows 11 vs. 10 remarks).

You're able to get multiple virtualised windows displays, on multiple physical displays on your Mac, so the virtualised windows displays map to the physical Mac displays?

 

[goMac]

The Mac Pro makes a pretty poor Windows box generally. No TPM support, which means no Windows 11 support. It's not the question you asked (which I think others have done a good job of addressing), but if you don't want a Mac, you'll get way way better bang for your buck selling it and buying a proper PC.

Otherwise it's a really expensive, pretty poor performing PC with no support for modern Windows without hacks.

 

[jaapaap79]

The Mac Pro makes a pretty poor Windows box generally. No TPM support, which means no Windows 11 support. It's not the question you asked (which I think others have done a good job of addressing), but if you don't want a Mac, you'll get way way better bang for your buck selling it and buying a proper PC.

Otherwise it's a really expensive, pretty poor performing PC with no support for modern Windows without hacks.

That’s starting to seem like the most reasonable option to be honest… though first I’ll have to look up how @prefuse07 is running Windows in a bit more detail.

 

[jaapaap79]

I just realized I’d have to replace my LG 5k screens then as well. Not even aware of a Windows machine equivalent to them.

 

[prefuse07]

Yeah, if you're really after pure Windows, and could care less about macOS, I would echo what @goMac said.

Sell your 7,1 and just buy a proper PC.

 

[goMac]

I just realized I’d have to replace my LG 5k screens then as well. Not even aware of a Windows machine equivalent to them.

Ultrafine 5ks work great on Windows as long as the machine has Thunderbolt support. (Otherwise you get USB-C at 4k.)