Windows 10S - is this where macOS will be headed?

maflynn

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I was reading an article on thurrott.com (behind its paywall), about windows 10s, and it got me thinking about macOS as well.

As a refresher, MS unveiled a new version of windows 10s. MS was a bit coy of what the "S" was supposed to stand for, i.e., S for speed, S for security, etc. The security aspect is one of the major features and drawbacks. The fact that 10S can only run app store apps and nothing else has garnered a lot of debate. For instance, if you want to use lightroom 5, you'll be out of luck, because its not in the app store. Now I'm not writing this to complain about MS/Windows but rather it got me thinking about macOS.

For instance, with iOS, there's no side loading of apps, if its not in the app store, it cannot be loaded (short of JBing), so for Apple the precedent has already been set. More so now that MS has broken the ice so to speak.

Do you think Apple in the near future will move in the same direction, i.e., forcing macOS to only run apps that are from the MAS?
 

keysofanxiety

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Do you think Apple in the near future will move in the same direction, i.e., forcing macOS to only run apps that are from the MAS?
No.

Windows S is Windows trying to become something similar to iOS, as they didn't have something competitive against Android/iOS in the first place – 'competitive' in this context meaning people willing to develop for it. Apple already have iOS. They don't need to remove functionality for macOS; instead, they can simply increase functionality for iOS.

I also don't believe Apple would reduce functionality for their desktop OS to make it more like iOS. A crippled desktop OS to gain the closed-application advantages of a mobile OS is a move Apple don't need to do. They already have the best of both worlds. For Microsoft, they found themselves painted into a corner. This wasn't a slick move; it was forced more out of desperation/necessity, due to their previous failures in the walled-garden approach (Windows Phone OS, Windows 10 mobile, etc.).
 
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Zirel

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Do you think Apple in the near future will move in the same direction, i.e., forcing macOS to only run apps that are from the MAS?
No.

People that buy Macs are normally more advanced that people that buy Windows PCs, they would never accept something like Windows 10S.

Also, it would be a stupid move for Apple, they have their own locked OS's. Microsoft only has one OS, so it has to make do for two...
 
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Tech198

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I for one would would like to see Apple restrict it to the MAS only and zero option to buy from outside..

iOS is way ahead of the Mac, and maybe for good reason, but just seems Apple actually got in on the ground floor with iOS . You may not be able to restric what u can install on a Mac, but u can do whatever u want with where u get the apps from without affecting anyone much.
 
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daflake

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No.

People that buy Macs are normally more advanced that people that buy Windows PCs, they would never accept something like Windows 10S.

Also, it would be a stupid move for Apple, they have their own locked OS's. Microsoft only has one OS, so it has to make do for two...
What??

Look, I like Apple and use it for what it is, but the bottom line is that the majority of businesses run on Windows and Linux. Do us a favor and try not to fall off your pedestal will ya? Microsoft has several OS's as well...


As for the App Store we are seeing it get tighter and tighter to be honest. It used to be that you could load an application downloaded from the internet without any warnings but now they are letting you know that you are doing it. It may be that one day they simply turn off the ability to do it. I think that Microsoft flounders a lot when it comes to their eco system. I know they are trying to come up with something but I am not sure that copying Apple is the way to go and clearly they have no direction; this is pretty standard for Microsoft.
 
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Zirel

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What??

Look, I like Apple and use it for what it is, but the bottom line is that the majority of businesses run on Windows and Linux. Do us a favor and try not to fall off your pedestal will ya? Microsoft has several OS's as well...
Why can’t I say the truth?

Call centers and POS boxes are what uses Windows.

Now on workstations, Mac has a much larger marketshare.

Of course there are a lot more of cashiers and telemarketing operators than software engineers.

As for the App Store we are seeing it get tighter and tighter to be honest.
No, we aren’t seeing any of that, can you point to where Apple is making the MAS tighter?


It used to be that you could load an application downloaded from the internet without any warnings but now they are letting you know that you are doing it.
And that’s a good thing.

It may be that one day they simply turn off the ability to do it.
Everything is possible, but that’s really not happening.

I think that Microsoft flounders a lot when it comes to their eco system. I know they are trying to come up with something but I am not sure that copying Apple is the way to go and clearly they have no direction; this is pretty standard for Microsoft.
Copying Apple by doing what Apple didnt do?

Microsoft always has been bad and controlative.

If they see competition, they are going to kill it, even if it’s for Windows.

They are doing this for nothing but to force the adoption of .NET applications and to shut down Steam.

Probably time for another Antitrust fine like Google is taking now, and Bill Gates took in the past.
 

maflynn

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People that buy Macs are normally more advanced that people that buy Windows PCs
Sorry but that's pure B/S. Calling people superior because they purchase one computer over another is just plain silly.

My point is, that apple has already embraced this with iOS, and we've seen plenty of iOSifaction (if that is a word) of macOS. I'm not making a case that they should, but rather would they.
 

Zirel

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Sorry but that's pure B/S. Calling people superior because they purchase one computer over another is just plain silly.
Don’t need to be that defensive.

I didn’t say anything in that direction, I said it in the other direction.

Lots of photographers buy Nikons.

You aren’t a photographer because you bought a Nikon.

People that don’t care and just want to go to Facebook buy a $300 Windows machine, they aren’t buying $5000 iMac Pros. And most people just need Facebook, that’s why Windows marketshare is so big.

Company computers just need to run a Java client or a browser, and that’s why we see a lot of Windows in corporate environments: dumb terminals.

My point is, that apple has already embraced this with iOS, and we've seen plenty of iOSifaction (if that is a word) of macOS. I'm not making a case that they should, but rather would they.
For example?
 

daflake

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Why can’t I say the truth?

Call centers and POS boxes are what uses Windows.

Now on workstations, Mac has a much larger marketshare.

Of course there are a lot more of cashiers and telemarketing operators than software engineers.
Complete elitist rubbish... Most corporations and government agencies run on Windows. Since you have seem to think otherwise, please post up your proof on this. Hate Windows all you want, but please stop talking nonsense. Apple pulled from the business sector years ago.

No, we aren’t seeing any of that, can you point to where Apple is making the MAS tighter?

And that’s a good thing.
That was my point, they are tightening down on external apps already by what they are doing. Whether they decide to lock it completely is up to Apple. They could easily do it, let's hope they don't.


Everything is possible, but that’s really not happening.
Again, it used to be that you could do it without warning. Now you are getting warned, why? Duh, I know I downloaded it from the web, thanks.... (it does serve a purpose for rogue apps trying to auto install).

Copying Apple by doing what Apple didnt do?

Microsoft always has been bad and controlative.


If they see competition, they are going to kill it, even if it’s for Windows.

They are doing this for nothing but to force the adoption of .NET applications and to shut down Steam.

Probably time for another Antitrust fine like Google is taking now, and Bill Gates took in the past.
Funny, as a developer and an IT professional I have always found Apple way more controlling in their bussiness model.
[doublepost=1498568086][/doublepost]
Lots of photographers buy Nikons.

You aren’t a photographer because you bought a Nikon.
Yes, you are... You may not be a pro, but you are a photographer.


People that don’t care and just want to go to Facebook buy a $300 Windows machine, they aren’t buying $5000 iMac Pros. And most people just need Facebook, that’s why Windows marketshare is so big.

Company computers just need to run a Java client or a browser, and that’s why we see a lot of Windows in corporate environments: dumb terminals.
Again, kind of a rubbish set of statements, please provide your sources for this information.

@maflynn, sorry this is dragging off topic. I'm tapping out of the converstation at this point. Feel free to delete this if you need to.
 
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8692574

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I was reading an article on thurrott.com (behind its paywall), about windows 10s, and it got me thinking about macOS as well.

As a refresher, MS unveiled a new version of windows 10s. MS was a bit coy of what the "S" was supposed to stand for, i.e., S for speed, S for security, etc. The security aspect is one of the major features and drawbacks. The fact that 10S can only run app store apps and nothing else has garnered a lot of debate. For instance, if you want to use lightroom 5, you'll be out of luck, because its not in the app store. Now I'm not writing this to complain about MS/Windows but rather it got me thinking about macOS.

For instance, with iOS, there's no side loading of apps, if its not in the app store, it cannot be loaded (short of JBing), so for Apple the precedent has already been set. More so now that MS has broken the ice so to speak.

Do you think Apple in the near future will move in the same direction, i.e., forcing macOS to only run apps that are from the MAS?
Unfortunatly yes, this will become a way to sell you safety and such, it is working well with people defending it on iOS, and you can bet then when (not if) Apple does it, it will be "Magical" and "Innovative" and it will be the best thing Apple ever "invented" for Apple users...
 

maflynn

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People that don’t care and just want to go to Facebook buy a $300 Windows machine
By the same token, you go into any apple store at any moment and they're selling computers to people who want to go on facebook.

Your argument that more advanced people buy macs over windows machines is plain wrong and is an back-handed insult to those who choose windows machines for the simple reason it fits their needs better.

I'll not pursue your close minded and myopic comments any further as they are derailing the thread. You have your opinion and that's fine, but I know plenty of scientists, CIOs, CEOs, and other incredibly smart people who opt for window machines over Macs simply because they made informed decisions on what best fits their needs. You buying a mac does not mean you're special, it just means you chose a given platform that fits your needs.
 

Zirel

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Complete elitist rubbish... Most corporations and government agencies run on Windows. Since you have seem to think otherwise, please post up your proof on this. Hate Windows all you want, but please stop talking nonsense. Apple pulled form the business sector years ago.
No, they run on what their contractors put on desks.

Windows is cheaper beforehand and needs more IT support, so it makes the obvious choice.

That was my point, they are tightening down on external apps already by what they are doing. Whether they decide to lock it completely is up to Apple. They could easily do it, let's hope they don't.
Except that I can run all the Apps I want on any Mac. The same isn't true on Windows S machines, or Xboxes, which are also Windows machines.

Again, it used to be that you could do it without warning. Now you are getting warned, why? Duh, I know I downloaded it from the web, thanks.... (it does serve a purpose for rogue apps trying to auto install).
Why?

Because it's unsigned binaries.

The OS lets you do what you want, that's just a security warning.

Funny, as a developer and an IT professional I have always found Apple way more controlling in their bussiness model.
As a developer and IT pro, I found the opposite.

Yes, you are... You may not be a pro, but you are a photographer.
You understood what I said.

Again, kind of a rubbish set of statements, please provide your sources for this information.
Yes, I'm going to buy a $300 laptop for engineering work.
[doublepost=1498568848][/doublepost]
By the same token, you go into any apple store at any moment and they're selling computers to people who want to go on facebook.
And what's the problem of going to Facebook?

Your argument that more advanced people buy macs over windows machines is plain wrong and is an back-handed insult to those who choose windows machines for the simple reason it fits their needs better.
I'm saying most, not saying all...

I'll not pursue your close minded and myopic comments any further as they are derailing the thread. You have your opinion and that's fine, but I know plenty of scientists, CIOs, CEOs, and other incredibly smart people who opt for window machines over Macs simply because they made informed decisions on what best fits their needs. You buying a mac does not mean you're special, it just means you chose a given platform that fits your needs.
What's really derailing the topic is bashing Apple, and apologising for Microsoft because you think they might do something bad, that Microsoft is actually doing right now.


—————————


This sums this topic:

"Let's all bash Apple because of something really bad and anti-consumer Microsoft did. Apple didn't do it, but they have to do now, because Microsoft is at fault, and Apple needs to be at fault too, so Microsoft isn't that bad in the picture."

Let's insult Apple users, they are dumb and children, and they buy $2000 Facebook machines, we, Windows users, are ALL PhD professionals that need all Photoshop and AutoCAD, like Panos Panay says.

This is my last participation in the topic, as the argent is a moderator, and I'm not, so, the discussion will only go one way.

Have fun.
 
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daflake

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No, they run on what their contractors put on desks.

Windows is cheaper beforehand and needs more IT support, so it makes the obvious choice.



Except that I can run all the Apps I want on any Mac. The same isn't true on Windows S machines, or Xboxes, which are also Windows machines.



Why?

Because it's unsigned binaries.

The OS lets you do what you want, that's just a security warning.



As a developer and IT pro, I found the opposite.



You understood what I said.



Yes, I'm going to buy a $300 laptop for engineering work.
[doublepost=1498568848][/doublepost]

And what's the problem of going to Facebook?



I'm saying most, not saying all...



What's really derailing the topic is bashing Apple, and apologising for Microsoft because you think they might do something bad, that Microsoft is actually doing right now.


—————————


This sums this topic:

"Let's all bash Apple because of something really bad and anti-consumer Microsoft did. Apple didn't do it, but they have to do now, because Microsoft is at fault, and Apple needs to be at fault too, so Microsoft isn't that bad in the picture."

Let's insult Apple users, they are dumb and children, and they buy $2000 Facebook machines, we, Windows users, are ALL PhD professionals that need all Photoshop and AutoCAD, like Panos Panay says.

This is my last participation in the topic, as the argent is a moderator, and I'm not, so, the discussion will only go one way.

Have fun.
Still waiting for those a stats. If you can't produce them, your comment is nothing but fud.
 

lowendlinux

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I think that 10s is to stop the ChromeBook bleed Microsoft's OEM's compete in the same price brackets that ChromeBooks dominate. The schools and companies can still use all the same management software they already have and hand students or employees something virtually unbreakable.

While I had the lock down fears when 10.7 hit they haven't really locked it down further but that makes sense since to don't compete with ChromeBooks nor does Apple present an enterprise solutions.

Google is going to eat Microsoft if they don't watch out.
 

maflynn

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I think that 10s is to stop the ChromeBook bleed Microsoft's OEM's compete in the same price brackets that ChromeBooks dominate.
Definitely, but with Apple wanting to make macOS more like iOS, I wonder...

sense since to don't compete with ChromeBooks nor does Apple present an enterprise solutions.
No, I'm thinking its less about setting up a solution that will compete against Chromebooks but lock it down for security and control sake. Especially given the recent outbreaks of ransomware.
 

daflake

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Definitely, but with Apple wanting to make macOS more like iOS, I wonder...


No, I'm thinking its less about setting up a solution that will compete against Chromebooks but lock it down for security and control sake. Especially given the recent outbreaks of ransomware.
That may very well be the next step that companies take to try and circumvent ransomware. I'm not sure what the backlash would be for something like this though. I like to have control of my OS and I am slowly losing that control as companies implement what they feel is best for me.
 

maflynn

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That may very well be the next step that companies take to try and circumvent ransomware.
Two things.

1. I'll be quite honest and say that I was fairly certain that my next laptop was going to be a windows based machine but the earlier ransomware caused me to rethink that, and this latest one is all but closing the door on that notion. I still use windows but I held off buying a machine, as my current will suffice for a bit longer (I purchased an iPad Pro instead).

2. I was reading somewhere that MS is working on solutions to protect users' files from ransomeware encrypting their files.

I wonder if they'll be pushing windows 10S as more of a solution for that as well. The 10S could have been a great enterprise solution if they allowed the enterprise to control how apps are installed, i.e., enterprise applications that will never get into the Windows app store, yet are perfectly safe.
 

daflake

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Two things.

1. I'll be quite honest and say that I was fairly certain that my next laptop was going to be a windows based machine but the earlier ransomware caused me to rethink that, and this latest one is all but closing the door on that notion. I still use windows but I held off buying a machine, as my current will suffice for a bit longer (I purchased an iPad Pro instead).

2. I was reading somewhere that MS is working on solutions to protect users' files from ransomeware encrypting their files.

I wonder if they'll be pushing windows 10S as more of a solution for that as well. The 10S could have been a great enterprise solution if they allowed the enterprise to control how apps are installed, i.e., enterprise applications that will never get into the Windows app store, yet are perfectly safe.
I'm with you... My primary device is actually my iPad. I still have my Win 10 laptop at the house for small things, but most of what I do is really based on iOS for the most part. Still, I have my laptop for small development projects that I can do from home. SO I guess you can say I am already in that eco system.

I'm not so sure that MS will push only a fully locked enviroment. Too many people like the ability to customize and that would stop that ability cold. I think this is more for educational and even small business (don't want employees changing things) enviroments. I found this link that kind of explained it some.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4020089/windows-10-s-faq
 

pdjudd

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Apple has already stated of the MAS as it not being the only place to get apps for your Mac. Apple doesn’t seem to have made any changes to that position since OS X Lion. Now it is possible for them to change that position, but we haven’t seen them do so - in fact their position has been that OS X and iOS serve different needs for different people.

Thats all we can really say. Until Apple makes a really definitive move in that direction, its pointless IMO to argue about hypotheticals. Anything is possible. Hell Apple could announce tomorrow that they are closing up shop. They haven’t made any moves toward that, and I don’t propose we waste time arguing if they are going to do that.
 
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Tech198

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Do you think Apple in the near future will move in the same direction, i.e., forcing macOS to only run apps that are from the MAS?
Apple can do what they want, It's their computer/brand/eco-system

Totally do-able, and would wipe out half of malware infections for certain/shady apps on MacOS, despite Apple's improvements for security it so to speak, and the only reason why you don't see ransomware on iOS much because u cannot install a version of Transmission.

It would take developers by surprise, sure... but no different than saying "You need to upgrade your app in order for it to be listed in the App Store for iOS 11, and any apps not updated will be removed.."

It's Apple... You could say too much would break on Mac, compared to iOS, but your ARE in the eco-systemm
 

Fancuku

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Now on workstations, Mac has a much larger marketshare.
This is laughable.
It may be true for audio/video people but for anything else workstations are Dell, HP or Lenovo and it is not even close.
[doublepost=1500859206][/doublepost]
I think that 10s is to stop the ChromeBook bleed Microsoft's OEM's compete in the same price brackets that ChromeBooks dominate. The schools and companies can still use all the same management software they already have and hand students or employees something virtually unbreakable.

While I had the lock down fears when 10.7 hit they haven't really locked it down further but that makes sense since to don't compete with ChromeBooks nor does Apple present an enterprise solutions.

Google is going to eat Microsoft if they don't watch out.
I too think that 10S is being made for cheap low power laptops to compete with Chromebooks. MS wants a bigger share in the education market.