Other way round, please: If Apple does not care to open macOS to non-Apple hardware, then don't buy Apple.
For me, I use Intel Macbooks. With windows.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Windows 11
- Thread starter AutomaticApple
- Start date
-
- Tags
- windows 11 windows11
- Sort by reaction score
For me, I use Intel Macbooks. With windows.
As I said, I use Garmin and Apple nor Google do anything in particular to support watches that aren't their own. But it works great with either. And that's due to Garmin's efforts and that's why I buy their stuff.
Microsoft confirms Windows 11 August 2025 Update issues, rolls out emergency fix
I'm glad I hold off on updating - and this is the reason why. I hold off on windows and macos updates.
I'm glad I hold off on updating - and this is the reason why. I hold off on windows and macos updates.
This seems like an Enterprise issue so hopefully it won't affect most users.
Apple has kind of an emergency fix in beta right now for Sequoia. It opened up just after the previous one was released.
I suspect that I have 2025H2 installed as I've had Windows updates recently on my virtual machines.
This looks like you can’t even install the update. I’ll have to check on our W11 systems at work (we don’t have many) to see if they got this months update.
MS my finally be fixing windows dark mode - Windows Central
Now if they only removed the windows 3.1 dialog boxes from windows 11
Now if they only removed the windows 3.1 dialog boxes from windows 11
One should appreciate that Microsoft did not break very old transactions that practically nobody uses any more.Now if they only removed the windows 3.1 dialog boxes from windows 11
In Apple's world it would have been dumped without any replacement after three years.
Mainly once, to setup a database client.
90% of software installers use an XP-style configuration, so it does not really rag out of the frame...
the hits keep on coming for MS/Windows 11
The latest Windows 11 security update could be nuking SSDs — what you can do to avoid disastrous data loss
The latest Windows 11 security update could be nuking SSDs — what you can do to avoid disastrous data loss
This could explain a number of posts in the Lenovo subreddit on updates bricking laptops.
I don't use my Yoga in this way. It's more of a thin client to access cloud services. The SSD is user-replaceable too which is a nice benefit.
Windows updates have always been notorious for causing all kinds of chaos! Lol. Every number of Windows I can remember has had at least a couple bad updates that borked hardware. This is a rich tradition in MS history. We should all be thankful for the nostalgia!
I enjoy Windows but the entire update process is and has been a joke for years. Compared to how a Mac updates Windows PC'S are really clunky and outdated. You have Windows update. Then in the settings you have Windows driver updates that might come from a vendor. You have to go into the update settings to even see if there is an update and then you have to select it and update. Then there is the OEM's app for updates which installs important driver updates. This can be clunky as well to know if your PC is actually fully up to date and install all of the updates. This app may not have end to end encryption or be secure in any way. Some PC'S have had malware installed in these apps. Lenovo had an instance over a decade ago.
Between OEM updates and Windows updates and the sub menus it can get very convoluted very quickly. If you are not tech savvy it can compound these issues. The lack of very strict security on the installation and download of drivers and other software puts a huge security gap in all PC'S. It can be mitigated and as of yet this vector of attack has rarely been used and never to deliver malicious attacks.
Contrast that to a Mac. You get one update from one source. It has all the drivers and OS updates in one package. It is all secure. There are not multiple places to update just one. The Mac update system is vastly more simple and secure than Windows. I rarely hear about a Mac update bricking hardware. I can't even think of an example? Sure Apple makes all the hardware but that is also sort of the point. I am not trying to say that MacOS is better than Windows in some stupid blank statement. It is just in this area they have a lot of work to do and have to secure and streamline the process and work with OEM's to do it. Windows should handle all updates and OEM'S should deliver drivers to MS which can verify the code and then deliver across all devices that need it.
As far a broken updates it is another area MS should fix.
I would much rather have Microsoft address all the inconsistencies and issues that have plagued Windows for years than give us another version with Window dressing and not much else.
I enjoy Windows but the entire update process is and has been a joke for years. Compared to how a Mac updates Windows PC'S are really clunky and outdated. You have Windows update. Then in the settings you have Windows driver updates that might come from a vendor. You have to go into the update settings to even see if there is an update and then you have to select it and update. Then there is the OEM's app for updates which installs important driver updates. This can be clunky as well to know if your PC is actually fully up to date and install all of the updates. This app may not have end to end encryption or be secure in any way. Some PC'S have had malware installed in these apps. Lenovo had an instance over a decade ago.
Between OEM updates and Windows updates and the sub menus it can get very convoluted very quickly. If you are not tech savvy it can compound these issues. The lack of very strict security on the installation and download of drivers and other software puts a huge security gap in all PC'S. It can be mitigated and as of yet this vector of attack has rarely been used and never to deliver malicious attacks.
Contrast that to a Mac. You get one update from one source. It has all the drivers and OS updates in one package. It is all secure. There are not multiple places to update just one. The Mac update system is vastly more simple and secure than Windows. I rarely hear about a Mac update bricking hardware. I can't even think of an example? Sure Apple makes all the hardware but that is also sort of the point. I am not trying to say that MacOS is better than Windows in some stupid blank statement. It is just in this area they have a lot of work to do and have to secure and streamline the process and work with OEM's to do it. Windows should handle all updates and OEM'S should deliver drivers to MS which can verify the code and then deliver across all devices that need it.
As far a broken updates it is another area MS should fix.
I would much rather have Microsoft address all the inconsistencies and issues that have plagued Windows for years than give us another version with Window dressing and not much else.
Apple does third party driver updates in house? Like if I have a razer mouse, it gets updates from Apple without having to have their Synapse installed?
I have to install Logitech software if I want my extra mouse buttons to work on macOS so I don't think that they include third-party drivers.
So wouldn't it be the hardware vendors fault that the hardware drivers provided by WU are out of date or have issues?
I think that some of the hardware vendors want you to install their software management applications so that you see their products from time to time and maybe offer you new products. You typically have to set up an account to use the additional features of the hardware and this gives them the opportunity to send you ads.
I'm seeing it more and more as a business model on Windows and macOS if you want to use their hardware.
I guess I am thinking that macOS gets driver/kernel updates "right" because there is no variation in the hardware to mess up. Windows doesn't get that luxury, and when they try to offer convenience features (like updating chipset drivers or gpu drivers via Windows Update) they get skewered when things go wrong.
That's always been the case. If you do all the hardware, you have tight control over what hardware gets added. Windows is inherently third-party hardware.
But third-party hardware is a problem on Macs too. I had a DisplayLink device on either Leopard or Snow Leopard and an update broke it and the vendor said that it's fixed in the next release of macOS which I didn't want to run. macOS updates have broken the software I use in the past and I had to roll back using Time Machine until my vendor issued a fix.
My process when a new macOS update comes out is to test it on my laptop with my software. If all goes well, then I update my iMac Pro and Mac Studio. I can live with one system getting hosed as I can just restore it while using the others. I can run on my Windows desktop or laptop too. I think that the odds of both operating systems breaking my software at the same time is infinitesimal.
If you can't afford downtime, then you need to test new releases and maintenance updates before using or releasing and this usually implies additional, redundant hardware.
Apple does have a lot of drivers pre installed in the OS for some common hardware just like Windows. For more specialized hardware from 3rd party vendors traditionally the vendor provides a driver for the hardware for Windows and Apple?? A lot of 3rd party peripheral's all have their own drivers for both OS now.
I never said anything about 3rd party drivers if you read my post. It was all about how basic hardware drivers of a Windows laptop are delivered separate from main Windows updates which can be confusing for some users. I also stated that the delivery of these drivers is generally insecure vs. Apple which delivers everything in one place and all in one update package.
Apple has always encouraged it's customers to buy accessories and 3rd party items through the Apple store where you can generally trust that it will be compatible with your device. If you go outside of what is Apple approved 3rd party hardware (they have a list) then you run the risk of incompatibilities. This is a long established history with all apple devices. That being said, I have found personally that most 3rd party items I buy work with my Mac even if they don't say they do. There are some printers I still have issues with. So I buy something that I know will work. Similar to PC's, no? They have 3rd party hardware that may not work with Windows or some that is Windows specific or optimized like gaming mouse, etc.
Since a Razer mouse is hardware specifically designed and optimized for WIndows OS and gaming I would not have any expectation of software/hardware support from Apple. I would imagine a lot of the features would not work or work as well as in Windows-it is a ridiculous expectation in my opinion. Since it is not Apple hardware they will obviously not update it and I never ever made such a claim.
However, if you have a Mac and airpods and a Apple pencil or Apple anything it will automatically connect and updates are generally handled seamless in the background. All Apple branded hardware works amazingly well together. If you own anything by Apple you understand this. Apple branded peripheral's, monitors, etc. may cost more than PC counterparts but generally it is well made and designed and lasts a long time.
A PC is very different. Heck, if you build your own then you have a bunch of different companies warranties to potentially deal with. Firmware updates for most PC's handled outside of Windows Update service is insecure for their own hardware in the PC.
The advantage to Windows over a Mac is much more flexibility in hardware choices and much more legacy software compatibility and it is the only major dominant computer gaming platform. You have Steam which works well on multiple platforms but by a wide margin if you want to game or even do crazy GPU related stuff then Windows and Windows hardware has an advantage. I love Mac's but even with ****** Intel performance an Nvidia dedicated advanced top of the line GPU is always going to best a Mac and for less money. You can max out ram on Windows a lot cheaper and many times even in laptops the SSD is user replaceable. You can wipe Windows put CHromeOS, Linux, BSD, etc and run what you want. Macs don't love Linux too much. Some of us prefer how Windows works in certain ways to Apple. Fonts on MS are smoother than Macs, better scaling. There is a lot more. So I am not trashing Windows.
I would like Microsoft to see the problem and fix it sort of like what Android did when fragmented updates were a huge mess on Android. Google took more control over the update process and streamlined things so less and less was dependent on the OEM's. MS needs to manage all firmware and OS driver updates in one place and in one update for each Windows config. Make OEM's submit firmware updates then MS could verify the code for security and compatibility which would benefit everyone. If MS handled all firmware updates for the laptop or desktop hardware it would eliminate all the issues I brought up and bring better parity between MacOS and Windows 11.
For now this particular issue has been a thorn in my side in all my Windows machines that does make me nervous. I have bought PC desktops and laptops since the 90s until present day so I have a long history and experience dealing with setting up a new PC or troubleshooting hardware and software issues. Drivers and OEM's don't have a good reputation. Say I buy a new PC laptop. Now I hang onto it for a few years. After year one some OEM's will stop updating hardware drivers even as new versions of Windows are released. Some may go 2 or 3 years of firmware updates but almost all in my experience stop updating drivers after 3 years or at some point. This is a huge issue in of itself that I could have another post altogether. Add that most of these OEM's don't have any added security like end to end encryption and secure signed files. So most of the time this is not an issue but if a bad actor wanted to exploit these vectors of attack and alter the firmware to be malicious there would be no way for a user to know and firmware changes could render the OS insecure and open a back door. The chances of something like that happening are probably slim but they are none with Apple. So that for me is a big consideration as I am a bit old school with security.
Apple has a long list of it's own annoyances but on this issue they did things the right way. I know it is a much harder challenge for MS since there is so much more hardware compatibility to deal with but this would be an investment in the operating system most people won't know or see but it would be the proper and better evolution of MS windows in my opinion. I would rather have this improvement instead of some new UI element IMHO.
Try getting the latest intel drivers for your GPU from Intel and then run Windows update. Windows will remove that driver and install an old one. Rinse and repeat. It is a huge issue. Of course if Windows ever attempts to update a 3rd party driver from Nvidia or AMD good luck. It shouldn't be that way though. This feature should really get fixed. If MS won't fix it then they need a standard for apps on Windows that deliver serious drivers to the OS and hardware/firmware. A standard for security to know updates are delivered securely from the OEM to the device, a standard to notify Windows update not to override a OEM driver from the OEM. Some other features I am not thinking of.
Apple doesn't have a firmware update problem at all since they have designed all the hardware for all of their devices and it is a long pipeline that maximizes a long product cycle to boost profits in production over time. Obviously Apple has an advantage in this area because of the limited amount of hardware they have to support and the fact all of it they designed unlike MS.
Surface products are different. In fact, the MS surface line of products is exactly what I am talking about. All software AND firmware updates, driver updates are all handled by MS. All updates are in one place in one update package. They are securely delivered and signed by MS. They are updated almost the same as how Apple does. If you have ever had a Surface product one of the best things about it is the optimization of Windows with the hardware and the seamless updates. I love Surface products if I could afford them. They are the example MS should extend to all OEM's. If it costs MS to do it and do it right they may have to charge more for Windows? But they need to do it because firmware updates on all other PC's besides Surface are a mess!
Windows 11’s yearly ’25H2′ update enters its final preview stage
There doesn't seem to be many updates that get my juices flowing, just minor items, like improvements to the settings app, start menu changes. The one thing that could be helpful, is quick machine recovery. MS always lagged behind Apple in re-installing, recovering, repairing windows.
There doesn't seem to be many updates that get my juices flowing, just minor items, like improvements to the settings app, start menu changes. The one thing that could be helpful, is quick machine recovery. MS always lagged behind Apple in re-installing, recovering, repairing windows.
Microsoft confirms Windows 11 version 25H2 will have no new features — it actually removes some, and will be available soon
So I didn't think there were many new features, it looks like there's no new features. Kind of disappointing the more I think about it, though if the changes in H2 make windows 11 a more stable OS and improve performance, I'll be happy
So I didn't think there were many new features, it looks like there's no new features. Kind of disappointing the more I think about it, though if the changes in H2 make windows 11 a more stable OS and improve performance, I'll be happy