Windows guy trying to understand Mac OS

[alexmartinpc]

1. About UEFI:
In Mac, it's called EFI, not UEFI.
The files are stored in a hidden partition on the HDD/SSD name "EFI". If you can unhide it, you can open the files, study it, make changes. This is where people like Dosdude1 worked to create their patchers to install newer MacOS on unsupported Macs.
On an USB instaler, there is also a hidden EFI partition, which by default can only be seen by the iMac SMC+NVRAM (BIOS equivalence in PC).

2. About Windows on Mac machines:
You can create a WindowsToGo disk (still remember how to do, don't you?), plug it in the MBP. You will have a working Windows 10 64bit machine.
It will lack some drivers, which can be installed using BootCamp 6, and a few drivers require BootCamp 4.
BootCamp 4 USB can be created using the BootCamp Assistant in your current Mac.
BootCamp 6 can be downloaded somewhere on the Internet. Google for it.

And Windows guy, can you tell me what kind of fancy upgrades you have done on a 13" Windows Laptop, with solderd CPUs? Not very many, I guess. The same will applied to the MBP 13" you are holding.

I just laid my hand on my first Macs several months ago. I would stay away from a laptop thing if dreaming of upgrades.
Find some old Mac Pro or iMacs, and you will get your PC expertise ramming.

And to my experience, installing Catalina to a basic model 2009 MBP or iMac or MacPro is just as easy as installing Windows 10 on a Core 2 Duo PC/Laptop.
After creating an USB installer, you just need to boot it up and let the machine do it jobs, click mouse here and there. Things done. There are actually nothings to write home about.

The hard part is to create a proper USB installer, which dosdude1 has done for us.

Yeah, I thought for a moment about installing W10, but since it's an Apple product, the customer likes Apple and expects Apple, even though I'm sure I can configure W10 to make him love it as much or more than his macOS, and I read about possible problems with drivers, WiFi or whatever, I decided to install Catalina instead. Came out fine.

I don't know why the tone with the "fancy" updates, I indeed wanted to swap the CPU but then I saw it was soldered, so it was not worth the effort. The RAM was horrible, not matching sticks, then the HDD, some ports were not working correctly... I made his MBP so much better and fixed everything. Fantastic job.

I don't know if you read correctly, but this is not my laptop, and the customer did not buy it to upgrade it in the future. I simply saw the opportunity to upgrade it and make it so much better, so I did. Not sure why you recommend me now to buy iMac if it has nothing to do with the topic.

Installing Cataline definitely is harder than installing W10. First, it's not "official", so you have to spend time reading all the extra stuff besides the official way of updating macOS. Second, your average Apple/Windows customer barely knows what is an OS, let alone create a bootable USB, or what in heavens disk format means, or file system. For us experts that have been doing this for many years, it's easy peasy, but for others that have used all their life the PC/Mac just as tools to work, it's something that they completely ignore. So, we exist, to do the job. They will be good at something that we aren't. Definitely it's something to write the customer about, because I can put this very example, my customer does not know anything about all this stuff, and he's so excited because of everything I fixed, installed and upgraded.

For a mechanical engineer it's easy peasy to calculate the stress-strain analysis for a given structure and "it's nothing to write home about". Guess what? Companies pay them hundreds of dollars because they don't understand anything about engineering, so it's a very complicated issue they don't understand at all.

 

[Nguyen Duc Hieu]

Yeah, I thought for a moment about installing W10, but since it's an Apple product, the customer likes Apple and expects Apple, even though I'm sure I can configure W10 to make him love it as much or more than his macOS, and I read about possible problems with drivers, WiFi or whatever, I decided to install Catalina instead. Came out fine.

I don't know why the tone with the "fancy" updates, I indeed wanted to swap the CPU but then I saw it was soldered, so it was not worth the effort. The RAM was horrible, not matching sticks, then the HDD, some ports were not working correctly... I made his MBP so much better and fixed everything. Fantastic job.

I don't know if you read correctly, but this is not my laptop, and the customer did not buy it to upgrade it in the future. I simply saw the opportunity to upgrade it and make it so much better, so I did. Not sure why you recommend me now to buy iMac if it has nothing to do with the topic.

Installing Cataline definitely is harder than installing W10. First, it's not "official", so you have to spend time reading all the extra stuff besides the official way of updating macOS. Second, your average Apple/Windows customer barely knows what is an OS, let alone create a bootable USB, or what in heavens disk format means, or file system. For us experts that have been doing this for many years, it's easy peasy, but for others that have used all their life the PC/Mac just as tools to work, it's something that they completely ignore. So, we exist, to do the job. They will be good at something that we aren't. Definitely it's something to write the customer about, because I can put this very example, my customer does not know anything about all this stuff, and he's so excited because of everything I fixed, installed and upgraded.

For a mechanical engineer it's easy peasy to calculate the stress-strain analysis for a given structure and "it's nothing to write home about". Guess what? Companies pay them hundreds of dollars because they don't understand anything about engineering, so it's a very complicated issue they don't understand at all.

I'm sorry, but maybe my standard of expertise is a little high. Even though I'm a novice user of PC and Mac, I still think of you as "an above average user and/or hobbyist" in the world of Mac/PC building/repairing, rather than the word "expert" you have used. If you can do the job and make the living out of it, you are called "professionals", but you are nowhere near the expert level I expect.

Experts to me are the ones who can:
- Unlock EFI password (equivalence of BIOS password) on an iMac by desoldered the firmware chip, put it to a programmer, and rewrite the ROM.
- Rewrite the Vbios on the EEFROM chip of a PC video card, to make it work on a Mac Pro
- Create patchers to install Mac OS on unsupported machines.
- Wrote the fancy Open Core program, to install Mac OS on normal PC parts.

And AFAIK, none of them name themselves as "experts", they call themselves "repairers" or "hobbyists".

So we are at a very different standards here about "expert"

 

[chucker23n1]

I don't know if you read correctly, but this is not my laptop, and the customer did not buy it to upgrade it in the future. I simply saw the opportunity to upgrade it and make it so much better, so I did. Not sure why you recommend me now to buy iMac if it has nothing to do with the topic.

I mean, I don't know the third party, but it sounds like you want to alter the machine to flex a nerd muscle, not because your customer(?!) asked you to.

Installing Cataline definitely is harder than installing W10. First, it's not "official", so you have to spend time reading all the extra stuff besides the official way of updating macOS.

But Windows 10 isn't officially supported on that model either: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201468

 

[alexmartinpc]

You got it wrong mate.

When you say "I'm an expert", you want to say "expert at something". You seem to think that a profession is to be "an expert", just like that. Hi, my name is John and I'm an expert. Not such a thing exists. Not even if you say "I'm an expert at PCs" works. What that even means? The PC world is huge, are you an expert about configuring PCs? Installing software? Making backups? Repairing MoBos? Making PC's fast? What?

Everyone, except you, probably got it right, I'm an expert at: analyzing PC components and see if an upgrade here or there is going to be noticeable by the user, an expert at diagnosing all kind of errors in PC, all kind of slow downs, an expert at mounting, configuring and creating custom PCs, and I can go on.

I did not want to mean "hey, the expert is here" to brag about it, but more like "hey, I know a lot about PC's, but always worked with Windows, I'm repairing this MacBook and this is the first time messing around macOS. Gimme a hand about equivalents between the OSs and stuff". Everyone got it except you, that stuck in the word "expert" and got triggered somehow. I'm gonna reply to you though.

Your "experts" example are so random you should be ashamed of even trying to discuss it with logic. Anyways, hey, I took my $150 multimeter, the MacBook was not charging, plus the battery was not working. Well, apparently, I had to check that out. Everyone can say "hey, the battery is not working", but only an expert can say it for sure and tell you the reason. I used my multimeter to read measurements in the circuit. I had to have knowledge about electricity and electronics to surely say the the battery was not working correctly, but the problem was also in the mobo.
Am I an expert now?
Nah, no code.
I diagnosed the mobo and found one pin was not doing correct contact. I re-soldered the whole port with my $130 soldering iron station. I do have to know how to solder, takes some time to do it correctly.
Am I an expert now?
Oh, not yet?
Ah, damn it, I did not write any software or coding, I guess I'm a failure. Oh wait!
I used my PC to create a VM of Catalina to check if one thing I was experiencing with the MacBook was normal or not. I had to open Command Prompt and type some stuff. I also had to know how to configure a VM and make it work with macOS.
Can you gimme my expert card now?
I also fixed some aesthetic bumps in the case. I also made a custom plastic layer for the magsafe connector because the grey layer was all corroded and the contact was not perfect. That counts as an expert?
No luck. Oh, then, how about I send to you the work I did during my software engineering years? I used mostly java and made games and everything, even used Unity and made an apk. Am I an expert now? No luck I guess.
Is Louis Rossmann an expert? That guy that repairs MacBooks?
All I see is Louis following premade schematics that he did not design, solder here and there, check for some V values and job done. Besides, all the work is being done by the multimeter, schematics given values and tools. He is worthless I believe.

When you finish the official test to become an expert at PCs, let my know, I want my certification in order.

 

[chucker23n1]

Is Louis Rossmann an expert?

Well, at driving YouTube traffic, anyway, yes. At repair, well, maybe.

 

[alexmartinpc]

I mean, I don't know the third party, but it sounds like you want to alter the machine to flex a nerd muscle, not because your customer(?!) asked you to.



But Windows 10 isn't officially supported on that model either: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201468

What? And now this guy attacks my way of working?
So all the chill and good vibes suddenly disappeared in this forum?

This is WAY beyond the topic and the discussion, but no, I do not flex any nerd muscle because I want to. There's no reason your tone should be so retarded. Since I happen to know a lot about hardware and when do you need it, yes, I was planning to upgrade this P7550 because it's quite old and in CPU power, whatever I can improve in an old machine is going to be very noticeable. First, I investigate about the compatibility, then I ask the customer or friend if they want to pay X for the upgrade. Then I noticed it was soldered and I passed. So, to answer your retarded question, no, I do NOT put any new hardware that is useless just because I can.

If Louis Rossmann is not an expert at repairing MacBook, as your "may be" dumb thing tries to hide, you 2 guys attacking me should start a company, cause I'm sure it's gonna be the best one in the whole universe. Full of real certificated experts and no useless hardware.

 

[chucker23n1]

this guy attacks my way of working?

[..]

no reason your tone should be so retarded

[..]

to answer your retarded question

[..]

your "may be" dumb thing

Maybe take a break or something.

 

[alexmartinpc]

...but it sounds like you want to alter the machine to flex a nerd muscle, not because your customer(?!) asked you to.

May be try to not call people you don't even know scammers, or that take advantage of their customers, or that lie to them, or whatever retarded thing that sentence is trying to say. Besides being a customer, he is also a very good friend of mine, trusts me 100%, and I had a conversation with him about everything. So, if those are the kind of sentences you are going to post, idiotic and mean assumptions of something you are fully ignorant, get out. Go talk to the other guy giving away expert accreditation if you are that bored and have such an imagination.

 

[Madonepro]

It's not about being welcome here, it's about saying the name of the product and being able to identify the model. If a client calls me and says "hey, I have a MBP and it's not turning on". I have to ask, yeah, which one. And the lame part comes: "it's a 15" early 2012".

My point is Apple should call them MacBook Pro 2, MacBook Pro 6, MacBook Pro X, etc... stating the date of the release as the model number is such a bad thing. You have the iPhone X Max, the Motorola Moto 7 Pro, the ASUS tablet 5T, etc... since they have very few products compared to other companies, the name is the easiest thing to do, yet years later, we are still with the "mid 2009" thing.

Yes, I know Cwerdna, my model is MacBookPro5,5, but people do not use at all that name, so it's like it doesn't exist. Their new 2020 MBP should be called something like "MacBook Pro X 15" or you could go like every other company and call it "MacBook Pro XR450T". Even their actual identifiers would work, as long as Apple refers to the using that, so people start to use it as well, and when someone tells me "Hey, I have a MacBook Pro 8,0" I know already the model and all.

Agree to disagree, it's nice the way it is, it's simple, and that's why we like it. For most it's enough to say 2015 MacBook, and unlike Windows computers, those that look after Mac's don't have to trawl through masses of tech manuals to find out the config.

 

[chucker23n1]

At some point, generational numbers become ridiculous, and the iPhone is fast approaching that. Do you have an iPhone 23 or 21? Much better: do you have the 2025 iPhone, or the 2027 one?

 

[clueless88]

The naming of the Mac OSes does not seem to have much logic as well. At least android has an irritatingly cute nomenclature for their versions.

 

[throAU]

Someone asked why I would even need to enter UEFI. Well, UEFI is a great way of checking if the system is recognizing every single piece of hardware, specially after an upgrade of RAM, SSD or whatever, without the need to load the OS. Besides, then you double check that everything that was recognized in the UEFI, is in the OS running.

On upgradable macs (and probably others, i haven't tried it on a non-upgradable one yet) the EFI has diagnostics

Use Apple Diagnostics to test your Mac - Apple Support

Apple Diagnostics, formerly known as Apple Hardware Test, can check your Mac for hardware issues.

support.apple.com

 

[throAU]

OK, I'm facing this issue:

I've just downloaded it from Chrome, the USB process went well, so the log said, how is it I'm getting this error?

If this machine is very old and has not been upgraded in a long time you may run into several issues:

1. the digital signature on the installer you are using is out of date and apple no longer sign it. resolution: set the clock back on the machine from the installer using the terminal. set it to some time in 2009 or whenever the version of macOS you are trying to install was current
2. the EFI may not be new enough to use APFS. solution: don't use macOS that requires APFS until you've gone through the older installer(s) to get the machine running so the efi can be updated.

I recently had to try resurrect a similar age mac, at 10+ years old i would not spend too much time on it unless your time is worth nothing - i doubt you'd use a PC from 2009 by choice so don't expect too much from a decade plus old dead mac.

 

[clueless88]

If this machine is very old and has not been upgraded in a long time you may run into several issues:

1. the digital signature on the installer you are using is out of date and apple no longer sign it. resolution: set the clock back on the machine from the installer using the terminal. set it to some time in 2009 or whenever the version of macOS you are trying to install was current
2. the EFI may not be new enough to use APFS. solution: don't use macOS that requires APFS until you've gone through the older installer(s) to get the machine running so the efi can be updated.

I recently had to try resurrect a similar age mac, at 10+ years old i would not spend too much time on it unless your time is worth nothing - i doubt you'd use a PC from 2009 by choice so don't expect too much from a decade plus old dead mac.

It appears from post #43 and earlier that the OP added RAM and installed an SSD and did indeed successfully roll back the date on this MBP and was able to get Catalina running on it and was pleased with its performance.

Not sure about the OP, but by choice, one of the machines that I am using is a desktop PC with a phenom II hex core processor that was purchased in 2010 from Costco--it came with windows 7 but went to Windows 10 when MS offered the free upgrade (definitely runs better on 10 than 7)--I only swapped out the original 1TB HD with a 500 GB Samsung SSD. It boots up very quickly and it serves me well--don't have a lot of graphics or processor intensive needs/programs. The nice thing about a company that makes software that run on machines made by other companies is that there is a consideration of including a wide range of processors, graphics chips/cards, sound cards/chips, other components and that legacy drivers are included when MS rolls out an updated OS. Unlike Apple, MS doesn't build in anything to prevent one from moving to a new OS--they give minimum requirements (sometimes very optimistic ones) and it is up to the consumer to see if they want to give it a whirl or throw in the towel and go with a newer PC/laptop.

 

[alexmartinpc]

Yes, I did the clock trick and the installation went fine. Right now is fully working with Catalina, fast and fluent.