MP 1,1-5,1 Windows on an cMP running OCLP Monterey

[pullman]

Greetings and salutations

I hope this isn't an overly stupid question, but I'm beginning to see a need to run my fairly old film scanners from within Windows on my cMP3,1.

When I bought this Mac in 2008 I played around with Boot Camp a bit and from searching it seems that's still around these days. But I also see other options like VMware Fusion and Parallels.

What would be the benefits and drawbacks on using these options (and are there perhaps others?) on such an old machine which is running Monterey via OCLP?

I'd hate to break my install going blind into this....

Thank you very much in advance
Philip

 

[noirflou]

Greetings and salutations

I hope this isn't an overly stupid question, but I'm beginning to see a need to run my fairly old film scanners from within Windows on my cMP3,1.

When I bought this Mac in 2008 I played around with Boot Camp a bit and from searching it seems that's still around these days. But I also see other options like VMware Fusion and Parallels.

What would be the benefits and drawbacks on using these options (and are there perhaps others?) on such an old machine which is running Monterey via OCLP?

I'd hate to break my install going blind into this....

Thank you very much in advance
Philip

You might also consider simply getting an application that supports your old scanner: VueScan from https://www.hamrick.com: it might support your scanner and you will then be able to use it with Monterey.

Regards,
PG

 

[tsialex]

Vmware Fusion is not compatible with MacPros earlier than MacPro6,1 since at least Big Sur and Fusion 12, when the XSAVE instruction started to be required, so, no go. I never used Parallels, so I'm not sure about the hardware requirements and if any excludes MacPro3,1. You'll probably need to go bare metal.

Your best bet is to install Windows 10* via CSM/Legacy to a dedicated SATA SSD, via Windows Install app. Btw, the thread is not a wiki where you get the solution on the first post, but a work in progress, the Windows Install app was developed over the course of the thread and will require some reading.

Installing Windows 10 in Legacy/BIOS mode in cMP with Boot Camp Assistant

Installing Windows 10 in Legacy/Bios mode in classic Mac Pro is easy. The latest and easiest solution is to use Windows Install software. If you want the manual approach please read below. You will have to use a modified Bootcamp assistant, which I attached to this post or make your own using...

forums.macrumors.com

Windows Install - Browse Files at SourceForge.net

Windows Install files. Full list of files for Windows Install, Installing Windows from macOS. Suitable for Hackintosh and Macintosh

sourceforge.net

You can boot Windows CSM/Legacy directly via the Apple native BootPicker and won't mess with your OC/OCLP install at all, you'll completely bypass it via the native BootPicker.

*recent builds of Windows 11 (24H2 and later) require SSE4.2 instructions, only available with Nehalem and Westmere Xeons of MacPro5,1.

Since consumer Windows 10 versions support ends on October 14, 2025, my advice is to install Windows 10 IoT LTSC 2021, works fine and fast with a MacPro3,1 and will have security updates support until January 13, 2032.

Windows 11 IoT LTSC like any other Windows 11 24H2 and newer release of Windows 11 also require SSE4.2 and won't work with your MacPro3,1.

 

[pullman]

Thank you very much Alex, I am very grateful. I'll look into this straight away. It's a temporary solution until I get a replacement Mac for this ageing 3,1 but if I can get this to work I'd be very happy indeed.

cheers
philip

Vmware Fusion is not compatible with MacPros earlier than MacPro6,1 since at least Big Sur and Fusion 12, when the XSAVE instruction started to be required, so, no go. I never used Parallels, so I'm not sure about the hardware requirements and if any excludes MacPro3,1. You'll probably need to go bare metal.

Your best bet is to install Windows 10* via CSM/Legacy to a dedicated SATA SSD, via Windows Install app. Btw, the thread is not a wiki where you get the solution on the first post, but a work in progress, the Windows Install app was developed over the course of the thread and will require some reading.

Installing Windows 10 in Legacy/BIOS mode in cMP with Boot Camp Assistant

Installing Windows 10 in Legacy/Bios mode in classic Mac Pro is easy. The latest and easiest solution is to use Windows Install software. If you want the manual approach please read below. You will have to use a modified Bootcamp assistant, which I attached to this post or make your own using...

forums.macrumors.com

Windows Install - Browse Files at SourceForge.net

Windows Install files. Full list of files for Windows Install, Installing Windows from macOS. Suitable for Hackintosh and Macintosh

sourceforge.net

You can boot Windows CSM/Legacy directly via the Apple native BootPicker and won't mess with your OC/OCLP install at all, you'll completely bypass it via the native BootPicker.

*recent builds of Windows 11 (24H2 and later) require SSE4.2 instructions, only available with Nehalem and Westmere Xeons of MacPro5,1.

Since consumer Windows 10 versions support ends on October 14, 2025, my advice is to install Windows 10 IoT LTSC 2021, works fine and fast with a MacPro3,1 and will have security updates support until January 13, 2032.

Windows 11 IoT LTSC like any other Windows 11 24H2 and newer release of Windows 11 also require SSE4.2 and won't work with your MacPro3,1.

 

[pullman]

Thank you PG. I have used Vuescan since 2008 but recent inexplicable rudeness by Ed Hamrick has made me decide never to use or recommend that software again.

You might also consider simply getting an application that supports your old scanner: VueScan from https://www.hamrick.com: it might support your scanner and you will then be able to use it with Monterey.

Regards,
PG

 

[tsialex]

Thank you very much Alex, I am very grateful. I'll look into this straight away. It's a temporary solution until I get a replacement Mac for this ageing 3,1 but if I can get this to work I'd be very happy indeed.

cheers
philip

My advice for you is to start with bog standard Windows 10 Pro that you can download the ISO directly from Microsoft and learn the install process via Windows Install app, after you sucessfully install Windows 10 Pro, you'll move to the Windows 10 IoT LTSC 2021 for the long run - different ISO that is not available from the standard Microsoft download page.

One very important thing. IoT LTSC Windows like any other Enterprise Windows versions do not have the pesky app installation from Microsoft so called partners that Microsoft have been forcing down the throat of all non Enterprise consumers, just this make it extremely worthwhile. You'll never know what Microsoft will install to your Windows in the next reboot with the consumer Windows versions, I was too tired of removing games and photo/video editors every week.

You can get the OEM licence of Windows 10 IoT LTSC 2021 for around $15 or less with several vendors and while you are doing tests you can use massgrave.dev to activate it.

I did everything in the last few months and if you need, I can point you to tech documents and videos about the whole process.

 

[pullman]

This is brilliant, thank you so very much. I'm in the process of going through the thread above to get my head around the installation process.

I do remember having to carry out regular house cleaning of Windows installs so Windows 10 IoT LTSC 2021 sounds almost too good to be true 😂

My advice for you is to start with bog standard Windows 10 Pro that you can download the ISO directly from Microsoft and learn the install process via Windows Install app, after you sucessfully install Windows 10 Pro, you'll move to the Windows 10 IoT LTSC 2021 for the long run - different ISO that is not available from the standard Microsoft download page.

One very important thing. IoT LTSC Windows like any other Enterprise Windows versions do not have the pesky app installation from Microsoft so called partners that Microsoft have been forcing down the throat of all non Enterprise consumers, just this make it extremely worthwhile. You'll never know what Microsoft will install to your Windows in the next reboot with the consumer Windows versions, I was too tired of removing games and photo/video editors every week.

You can get the OEM licence of Windows 10 IoT LTSC 2021 for around $15 or less with several vendors and while you are doing tests you can use massgrave.dev to activate it.

I did everything in the last few months and if you need, I can point you to tech documents and videos about the whole process.

 

[pullman]

Hi Alex

I thought I'd come back in this thread as I've decided to go the Windows 10 route instead of virtualisation. I've also re-read the long Windows Install thread which makes me think the process is straightforward enough (famous last words).

I'm looking for licences for Win 10 IoT LTSC 2021 you mentioned, but I only find "Enterprise" versions. Here in the Netherlands, there's this one for instance:

Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2021 - ProductSleutels.nl

Talen: Alle talen | 32/64 bits Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC (Long-Term Servicing Channel) - Digitale licentie *Is het de IoT-versie van LTSC? Deze licentie kan een geïnstalleerde IoT-versie activeren, maar de versienaam zal bij succesvolle activering veranderen in niet-IoT. Dit betekent dat de...

www.productsleutels.nl

Would that be the correct lightweight, unbloated version of Win 10?

I'm thinking to remove all peripherals including the internal Sonnet Tempo Pro card I use for Monterey OCLP, and put that boot drive in one of the bays. Then I'll put the new "Windows" SSD in another bay, formatted exFAT GUID.

Will I be able to use the Magic keyboard and trackpad during the installation?

Thank you in advance
philip

My advice for you is to start with bog standard Windows 10 Pro that you can download the ISO directly from Microsoft and learn the install process via Windows Install app, after you sucessfully install Windows 10 Pro, you'll move to the Windows 10 IoT LTSC 2021 for the long run - different ISO that is not available from the standard Microsoft download page.

One very important thing. IoT LTSC Windows like any other Enterprise Windows versions do not have the pesky app installation from Microsoft so called partners that Microsoft have been forcing down the throat of all non Enterprise consumers, just this make it extremely worthwhile. You'll never know what Microsoft will install to your Windows in the next reboot with the consumer Windows versions, I was too tired of removing games and photo/video editors every week.

You can get the OEM licence of Windows 10 IoT LTSC 2021 for around $15 or less with several vendors and while you are doing tests you can use massgrave.dev to activate it.

I did everything in the last few months and if you need, I can point you to tech documents and videos about the whole process.

 

[tsialex]

Hi Alex

I thought I'd come back in this thread as I've decided to go the Windows 10 route instead of virtualisation. I've also re-read the long Windows Install thread which makes me think the process is straightforward enough (famous last words).

I'm looking for licences for Win 10 IoT LTSC 2021 you mentioned, but I only find "Enterprise" versions. Here in the Netherlands, there's this one for instance:

Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2021 - ProductSleutels.nl

Talen: Alle talen | 32/64 bits Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC (Long-Term Servicing Channel) - Digitale licentie *Is het de IoT-versie van LTSC? Deze licentie kan een geïnstalleerde IoT-versie activeren, maar de versienaam zal bij succesvolle activering veranderen in niet-IoT. Dit betekent dat de...

www.productsleutels.nl

Would that be the correct lightweight, unbloated version of Win 10?

Three things:

1. IoT LTSC is an Enterprise version of Windows.
2. Officially Microsoft only made available the English language version of IoT LTSC.
   
   The ISO you can get it here:
   
   
   

   Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 (English) x64 : Microsoft : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

   Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021Version 21H2 (OS Build 19044.1288)RetailMinimum system requirements:Processor: 1 GHz or moreRAM: 2 Gb (64-bit)Disk space: 20...

   archive.org
   
   For other languages you can do workarounds starting with the Enterprise LTSC ISO in your language, I've used this trick here:
   
   
   https://www.reddit.com/r/WindowsLTSC/comments/1i4az0i/installing_iot_in_a_language_other_than_english
   
   You will have to modify the ISO, if you gonna use the Enterprise LTSC one and Windows Install, this is the reason why I've written for you to start with the normal ISO without any license/trial first and learn how to install Windows 10 and then go for the IoT LTSC later. I'd buy the license only after everything is tested/running.
3. Buying the Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC IoT license itself, you will have to search vendors, but I just checked GVGmall and Windows 10 Enterprise IoT LTSC license are still being sold here.

I'm thinking to remove all peripherals including the internal Sonnet Tempo Pro card I use for Monterey OCLP, and put that boot drive in one of the bays.

I'd also remove any other disks that you are not gonna use, to avoid inadvertently messing up anything.

Then I'll put the new "Windows" SSD in another bay, formatted exFAT GUID.

I'm adding all the info about the usage of Windows Install app here, do not forget to select CSM/Legacy type of install.

The main thread that discuss Windows Install is here:

Installing Windows 10 in Legacy/BIOS mode in cMP with Boot Camp Assistant

Installing Windows 10 in Legacy/Bios mode in classic Mac Pro is easy. The latest and easiest solution is to use Windows Install software. If you want the manual approach please read below. You will have to use a modified Bootcamp assistant, which I attached to this post or make your own using...

forums.macrumors.com

SourceForge Windows Install project page:

Windows Install

Download Windows Install for free. Installing Windows from macOS. Suitable for Hackintosh and Macintosh. The Windows Install.app program allows you to install Windows directly from the Mac OS system. There is no need to create an installation flash drive.

sourceforge.net

There is a video about how to use it:

Will I be able to use the Magic keyboard and trackpad during the installation?

Only if you do not reset the NVRAM.

Since is one of the things that you probably gonna need to do, I'd use a wired keyboard/mice combo for the install phase.