Windows sucks cause of Virus/Spyware... a legitimate argument??

Discussion in 'macOS' started by sukanas, Apr 23, 2008.

  1. sukanas macrumors 6502a

    sukanas

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    Nov 15, 2007
    #1
    im a happy and firm believer in the os x
    of course there will always be this lame and childish better of "oh osx is better than windows"
    the common one i keep hearing is that mac will never have viruses and spyware like windows


    well ive been a windows for the past 6 years.. and i've never had a problem w/ virus... in a sense, isnt the virus problem the person's fault for watching too much porn?
     
  2. Tallest Skil macrumors P6

    Tallest Skil

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    #2
    Well, that and the fact that Windows is bloated with legacy code, code for legacy hardware, code for legacy peripherals, and just generally loose coding systemwide.
     
  3. Quillz macrumors 65816

    Quillz

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    #3
    Honestly, the biggest reason Windows is so suspectible to viruses is because it has 90%+ market share. Too many stupid people installing every file they find on the Internet. The biggest reason Linux/Mac OS X don't have nearly as many viruses is because they have practically no market share. Yes, they have very secure kernels, but also remember that Mac OS X and Linux have always been designed to not be run everyday as an admin. With Windows, the idea of *NOT* being admin at all times is really something that's new. Vista is the first consumer release of Windows that uses sudo-like commands.
     
  4. clevin macrumors G3

    clevin

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    #4
    no, honestly, most windows have this or that AV installed, and also honestly, nobody really knows how many real dangerous viruses are affecting Vista at all.

    Again, this has nothing to do with porn.

    Legacy hardwares are being used by people, so are legacy peripherials, and should be supported somehow, if apple can't do it, should those users all spend $$$ to get a new computer or just goto hell? not everybody is that rich. lol
     
  5. Eidorian macrumors Penryn

    Eidorian

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    #5
    Run Windows in a limited user mode and see how many nasty things happen.
     
  6. Tallest Skil macrumors P6

    Tallest Skil

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    #6
    Serial printers and PS/2 keyboards need to be destroyed. This is 2008, not 1995.

    ...aaand there's no exasperation emoticon.
     
  7. clevin macrumors G3

    clevin

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    Aug 6, 2006
    #7
    I doubt thats the issue here. OSX supports legacy HP photo Smart 1000. how old is that?

    Its not a real issue, and its not a big problem, OSX has 2G printer drivers, to talk about bloat by peripherals of windows......;)

    people don't give up legacy code for a reason, look at apple in 1990's, hung to that legacy OS classic code almost to death, even with no market share.

    Not to mention the reality is windows has 95% market share, vista has 13%, there is really very few reason to scratch it as of now.

    Then look at the app compatibility problems caused by upgrade from Tiger to leopard. and thats not even close to a drastic change... scratch windows and build a totally new OS? that compatibility issue must be 10000 times bigger......
     
  8. HLdan macrumors 603

    HLdan

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    Aug 22, 2007
    #8
    I certainly don't mean to insult you but when you bring up things like getting viruses because of too much porn that sounds sort of immature, or a response from someone quite young in age.
    People get viruses from the passing of office email, installing software from someone's CD, downloading from any number of places on the web that have nothing to do with porn.
    Please open your mind a bit in regards to viruses, people generally use the term "virus" even if they are speaking in terms of spyware and I'm certain that you have been a victim of spyware because it's virtually impossible to avoid it in Windows on the web. I don't think anti-spyware programs will waive you from any of it.

    For the record, I think you may have misunderstood, it's not that Macs will NEVER get viruses it's the fact that there are no known viruses or spyware that affect Macs. That's a great selling point for Macs.
     
  9. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

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    #9
    Oh, please. The "security by obscurity" excuse for why MacOS X has no viruses is both shop-worn and discredited. Having been born yesterday, you may still be young enough to think that you are smarter than everyone else, but you are not. Entirely too many Windows computers have been infected before their owners completed setup for the first time to put all of the blame on "stupid users."
     
  10. clevin macrumors G3

    clevin

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    Aug 6, 2006
    #10
    "stupid users" is a interesting word, did you see how many people invoke "stupid users logic" to defend safari's lack of anti-phishing measures?

    Its quite unfair to wrap windows altogether and not to admit that vista has much more security improvement.

    Also, nothing is shop-worn and discredited, with limited market share (still!) of OSX, everything you can do is guess and assume, and that is not enough to discredit anything. Not to mention the infamous PWN2OWN contest, where OSX was shot down first.
     
  11. yadmonkey macrumors 65816

    yadmonkey

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    #11
    Yes, it's a legitimate argument, but it shouldn't be blown out of proportion. If you stay on top of it, a PC shouldn't ever be compromised by viruses or spyware. That means having good AV protection and making sure it's constantly up to date. Unfortunately keeping a secure machine in Windows is not always an intuitive process.

    As for this "security through obscurity" thing, it's a truly ridiculous notion. There's a big difference between 10% market share (millions of users) and NO viruses. Anyone who thinks that the Mac OS is not inherently more secure doesn't know what they're talking about. At the same time, anyone who thinks that Apple couldn't be doing more to secure their platform also is in the dark about security.
     
  12. cohibadad macrumors 6502a

    cohibadad

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    Jul 21, 2007
    #12
    XP is much more vulnerable. Vista does not appear to be anywhere near as vulnerable as XP. I don't really like the Windows Sucks/Mac OSX discussions. If security is a major concern, Vista, OSX or Linux are all way ahead of XP. Using reasonable security precautions the only virus I ever had with XP was when I stupidly clicked on an email attachment that seemed to be from my work ISP while distracted talking on the phone and I contracted a klez. My bad but the OS was vulnerable to an easy virus. My kids contracted every malware/adware/spamware known to man on our XP machines until I switched over all machines to Mac. I personally feel fine using XP or Vista for what I need them for, but I couldn't do anything to keep my machines the kids used from constant maintenance. No longer a problem with OS X. I used to connect an isolated test machine to the internet at work without AV or firewall. The Windows 2000 machine got so hacked. I left my Leopard server on my DMZ without firewall for months and little snitch on to see any malicious activity. Nothing. Nothing scientific but clearly XP/2000 were inferior to the current modern OSs in terms of security. People should choose an OS they like and not bother with the which one sucks arguments.
     
  13. HLdan macrumors 603

    HLdan

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    Aug 22, 2007
    #13
    Although I agree with most your argument this part I don't. Vista is not any more secure than XP if you really think about it. Vista has more security measures built in for the user such as the UAC but the system itself isn't more secure like the Mac OS X system is because of it's Unix core.
     
  14. applefan69 macrumors 6502a

    applefan69

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    #14
    Dont try to tell me Vista's kernel wasn't improved from XP's.

    Im positive it was. So im sure, microsoft made some security changes to the kernl in vista.

    Now about OS X's security... im aware that maybe one of the reason OS X doesnt have a virus problem is cause they arent the target, due to low marketshare. BUT I can confidently say if OS X did become the target... it would do a MUCH better job then windows ever did at keepin the computer as secure as possible.

    Why?! Simple... because Unix is a magnificent core... in 2000, when steve jobs announced OS X, and demonstrated it, and said it'd use Unix based kernel. That is possibly the smartest thing he did in his career. I dont wanna sound like some unix lover, but i strongly stand by it.
     
  15. dejo Moderator

    dejo

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    #15
    Honestly, most? Got some proof to back up that claim?
     
  16. Mac OS X Ocelot macrumors 6502a

    Mac OS X Ocelot

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    Sep 7, 2005
    #16
    I'm not purporting to be in any way right, but it just seems to me that the argument that OS X doesn't have viruses or spyware simply because it has less marketshare can't be true because there are users and someone out there would at some point attempt to make one, especially since the marketshare is rising (I know, it's still tiny) and is quite high on campuses. I have absolutely no doubt that the low marketshare helps, but viruses aren't a business and people don't not (double negative intentional) write them because of cost-effectiveness. People write viruses because they're *******s and because they like the challenge. The only reason I can think where it would be a factor is if every single hackz0r out there doesn't bother learning mac's framew0rkz because "mac sucks," but then wouldn't you want to take it down anyway? But I'm probably wrong.
     
  17. dringkor macrumors member

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    Jan 8, 2008
    #17
    Mac OS X Leopard is UNIX. I am, by profession, a UNIX admin. I know how to secure a UNIX server, and in the seven years at my current job I have yet to deal with a virus or other security breach. I have, however, had to deal with Windows admins, and perhaps it's simply anecdotal, but in my experience they generally do not know how to secure their servers. That is because, while UNIX makes rational sense to me and other UNIX lovers, and has in fact been refined over the past 30 years, Windows seems to baffle even Windows professionals who must get re-certified every time Microsoft updates their OS and changes everything around.

    You don't have to surf porn or visit websites or even do anything at all to be vulnerable to attack when you run Windows. Here's a funny story. At work I use Linux. Linux does everything I need to do except one thing, which is to access the company's trouble ticket system called Remedy. So I used a product called VMWare to install Windows XP in a virtual machine running on my Linux laptop. This virtual Windows was never used for anything other than Remedy. No websites visited. No nothing. But it caught viruses. Not the Linux host machine, but the virtual Windows machine.

    Viruses are just part of life when you run Windows. It's not because of Windows' market share, or questionable websites visited. It's just that a Windows machine, on a network -- even a virtual Windows machine on a "protected" corporate network -- is inherently insecure.

    When I was a kid and became interested in computers, one of the things they said about computers was that they don't make mistakes. Nowadays, people just assume computers "mess up." Computers are finicky, they crash and lose your files, and everyone just assumes it's par for the course. But it's not. It's just Microsoft. People should be fired for choosing Microsoft.

    Someone here said that if you keep on top of it and update your Windows computer with current anti-virus software then you shouldn't have to worry. Personally, I prefer not having to do anything special in order not to have to worry, and instead like to spend my computer time on my own terms.

    That's why I bought a Mac.
     
  18. kiwi031 macrumors member

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    Mar 10, 2008
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    New Zealand
    #18
    Windows and Viruses..

    Back in 2003 I bought a brand new XP computer...

    I plugged its ethernet cable into a router with a live ADSL connection...

    I then booted it up for the first time...

    After the initial setup was complete, the first thing I did was install an Norton Antivirus...

    Having been on for about 20 mins, without surfing the net, downloading any attachments or transferring files from my old computer...

    The computer had already caught the ILUVYOU virus!!!!!!! :D

    Thought that was relevant, not to mention a wee bit funny :)
     
  19. Eidorian macrumors Penryn

    Eidorian

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    #19
    Hopefully my earlier comment wasn't ignored but have any of you run XP in a limited user mode? It's a pain in the ass to try to do anything. You need to get out of the typical always running as administrator and idiot run anything/everything security arena. That's the majority of user experiences sadly.

    I had a retired couple that kept calling me up for house visits since the husband kept getting trojans on their freshly reinstalled XP machine. They were even running NOD32 but they couldn't seem to avoid them. The pay was incredible to help them not to mention the meals. I wasn't even going to suggest a Mac. I created an administrator account for their rarely seen son and two limited user accounts. I then instructed them to use their accounts to web browse and the son's to run Windows Update, etc. I even went to explain to them a lot of the security problems with Windows in layman's terms. They picked up rather quickly even if they weren't experts. They haven't called since.

    Vista makes some steps with the UAC and I expect it to be very annoying for most users expecting to run Window wide open with no restrictions. At least you're not on some corporate domains with draconian group policies.

    I enjoy OS X and I extol its virtues. Windows can be secure but it's set to be wide open since that's how it has always been.

    #3) With great power comes great responsibility.
     
  20. BlakTornado Guest

    BlakTornado

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    #20
    They'll pick up one day. Viruses will download from websites in DMGs, intolerant users will then install the software.

    In the day, we are pretty certain that we can go to almost any indie developer's website and download software that won't mess up our machines.

    I think the majority of people who would actually be effected by Mac OS X viruses would be people with this mentality. People who download things and install them without properly checking it out.

    But yes, malware won't be able to attack the heard of OS X like it can on Windows because of the Unix.

    Just because we're Mac users, it doesn't mean we're not susceptible to idiocy :p
     
  21. richard.mac macrumors 603

    richard.mac

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  22. donmei macrumors regular

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    Mar 8, 2007
    #22
    I'm a recent switcher and IT professional. While I'm not technically "current" I've got some history (Netware CNE and MS MCSE all in obsolete versions)

    I've never caught a virus while running any 32 bit windows OS.

    Why? Because I dont install things without knowing where they're from.

    And . and this is the MOST IMPORTANT REASON.

    I always run as a limited user, with no rights to install anything.
    At some point, we will all fall for a socially engineered piece of malware.

    At some pooint the email that says "look at the pictures of my baby", and is spoofed from a friends infected machine will actually appear to come from somebody who just had a baby.

    And when that happens, if you are running as an administrator, even in OSX, you are toast.

    So never, ever, run as admin, unless you need to.

    In all honesty, I dont yet understand why all the other malware doesnt affect a mac. I've heard people state some superficial reasons.

    Yes, unix is great. but what is it about unix that provides some degree of protection?

    Don
     
  23. Cryptic1911 macrumors member

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    Mar 11, 2008
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    Connecticut
    #23
    I'm a recent Mac switcher, but I'm an IT professional, and have used linux at home for the past couple years. I tried vista for a day, then nuked it and put linux on everything.

    The problem with Windows is the buggy legacy code and the amount of inept users that use it. They started off trying to be user friendly, which did work to a point, but what happened is they opened themselves up to way too many security issues and bad user practices. Now all of a sudden they are trying to section the OS off and keep users in a "protected" environment with Vista, but the users are complaining because all of a sudden its more work for them, and some things dont work properly.

    They painted themselves in the corner by not instilling user security and requiring the users to have SOME knowledge of what they are doing, and I think its going to be their downfall.
     
  24. Santa Rosa macrumors 65816

    Santa Rosa

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    #24
    I would say that your argument isnt a good one (this is to the OP) it is relevant but not a good arguement.

    Windows is actually a good OS its just when you start to use it thats when it all goes downhill. Thats where your Mac keeps chugging on which is my feeling as to why it is superior.

    Also having had to fix a Windows XP computer last night that had every bit of possible spyware, malware, adware, junkware, (you name it)ware on it doesnt bode well for liking the OS. If you look after Windows meticulosly it will serve you well, one mistake and then you are, as someone has already mentioned, toast!!

    There are so many different sides to the argument and things you can discuss so it is a very very very open ended topic.
     
  25. donmei macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2007
    #25
    Santarosa,
    all good points.

    I just purchased vmware workstation for win last night. My current version of winxp is terribly polluted. No viruses, just terribly slow after 1 year, so its time to reinstall.

    I'm hoping the vmware will help me. I can keep a pristine xp instance and clone it for use. when its polluted, I can "reinstall" windows in 3 minutes.

    right now I'm installing it over my old xp just to play.

    When I'm ready, I'll wipe the hd reinsttall a LEAN host instance of xp and then run in a full screen vm. Shoot, just for fun, I may try to get a virus. warez anyone?

    Don
     

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