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With how well the M1 is performing, are Intel Macs just DOA at this point?

T

thelnnovator

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Original poster
Sep 15, 2014
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I just spent $4k in September, on a 16" MBP, i9 with 32GB and 5600m and I'm concerned that this device will just tank in value when the M1 or M2 take fully over. I'm debating if I should ask Apple to return or sell this machine before they become obsolete. I thought it was good idea to max out the last intel MBP given that it might retain it's value since it can run Bootcamp etc... but I just feel like maybe I overspent on a machine that will easily be decimated in stats by a cheaper computer in a years time.

Also, yes, I know I can use this computer and it'll be a great machine and I'm not that worried about the value, but I am wondering if maybe I should wait and pick up the M1 / M2 16" when it comes out and will decimate this machine.

Just wondering if people think the Intel Mac's wont have a market later on.
 
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It’s not even just the performance, the heat, noise and battery life is so much better that it’s even worth taking a performance hit in some work flows for these new machines. I’ve owned so many MacBooks recently and the heat and noise is unacceptable (due to how hot the Intel chips get). Same experience on windows laptops.
 
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If I had to hazard a guess, I would say that the Intel Macs are going to still be relevant about the same amount of time that the PPC Macs were during the switch to Intel in the first place. Maybe even a little less time, because I just read the benchmarks and the numbers are pretty convincing. 😨
You're maxed out with your MBP now but in 4 or 5 years you might start having trouble finding apps that run on x86 at all.
I wouldn't upgrade out of Intel until probably the M3 or whatever they end up calling it.
Have there been comparisons between the M1 and i9 or even i7 Macs?
Until we get one with a dedicated GPU though I don't know how compelling these ARM Macs are going to be.
 
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There is some unhealthy fetish with having a laptop that generates no heat. Apple isn't restructuring science here. They are innovating by creating an infrastructure that runs the same programs using less power draw. That could not be done under the design of intel chips.

You can't change the laws of thermodynamics. You can however work around them.

People need to stop looking at heat as some evil. It is necessary for any sort of higher energy state.

Once Apple begins trying to imitate higher tier GFX cards it will be interesting to see how little power draw they are able to establish while matching equal performance.

Let's see one of you guys push an XDR in bootcamp running SolidWorks or ANSYS with an M1. Not happening.

These recent chips have their place. They are able to read video codecs well, and they can run office apps. Aside from that, it is just a bunch of Apple fan boys on here justifying their purchase. However I find it humorous it requires one to now render their intel useless.

If that isn't the most prime example of toxic consumerism then I don't know what is.
 
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Maxwells_Equations said:
There is some unhealthy fetish with having a laptop that generates no heat. Apple isn't restructuring science here. They are innovating by creating an infrastructure that runs the same programs using less power draw. That could not be done under the design of intel chips.

You can't change the laws of thermodynamics. You can however work around them.

People need to stop looking at heat as some evil. It is necessary for any sort of higher energy state.

Once Apple begins trying to imitate higher tier GFX cards it will be interesting to see how little power draw they are able to establish while matching equal performance.
Click to expand...

There is nothing unhealthy about it, we have Intel CPU’s in recent years which go well beyond the TDP that these chassis can handle in a reasonable manner. M1 is reversing that trend. It’s all about performance per watt, and Intel screwed that up. Laptops shouldn’t get so hot that they become uncomfortable to hold or sound like a jet engine - I think that is a reasonable benchmark to work against, nothing unhealthy.
 
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expecting from workmachine that it will stay cold like 30C is foolish. The new Silicon chips may be faster, so ppls will put more load to them and more demanding aps... and then guess what will happen, the chip will start to generate heat as well...
 
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Ma2k5 said:
There is nothing unhealthy about it, we have Intel CPU’s in recent years which go well beyond the TDP that these chassis can handle in a reasonable manner. M1 is reversing that trend. It’s all about performance per watt, and Intel screwed that up. Laptops shouldn’t get so hot that they become uncomfortable to hold or sound like a jet engine - I think that is a reasonable benchmark to work against, nothing unhealthy.
Click to expand...
What exactly is performance my friend? Does it have a unit? Can it be derived?

A watt is a watt, and it generates the same amount of energy which is the same amount of heat no matter how to produce that watt of power.
 
thelnnovator said:
I just spent $4k in September, on a 16" MBP, i9 with 32GB and 5600m and I'm concerned that this device will just tank in value when the M1 or M2 take fully over. I'm debating if I should ask Apple to return or sell this machine before they become obsolete. I thought it was good idea to max out the last intel MBP given that it might retain it's value since it can run Bootcamp etc... but I just feel like maybe I overspent on a machine that will easily be decimated in stats by a cheaper computer in a years time.

Also, yes, I know I can use this computer and it'll be a great machine and I'm not that worried about the value, but I am wondering if maybe I should wait and pick up the M1 / M2 16" when it comes out and will decimate this machine.

Just wondering if people think the Intel Mac's wont have a market later on.
Click to expand...
People still buys and uses 2013/14 MacBook Pro's. Just because it's a shift, that doesn't mean that your apps would slow down and make your machine obsolete. You would use it like you bought condition/performance wise for at least 4-5 years. Don't worry.
 
My guess is that if you want to sell your laptop, you'll need to find a buyer. Consumers will prefer a laptop with better battery life while a professional might value compatibility with Intel. But my bet is that the professional who needs Intel compatibility is going to buy a new machine, and expense it, as opposed to dealing with a used one. So you are left with consumers, who don't care about the M1 v Intel CPU, but will care about the 5 hour battery life vs 20 hours.
 
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Maxwells_Equations said:
Once Apple begins trying to imitate higher tier GFX cards it will be interesting to see how little power draw they are able to establish while matching equal performance.
~
If that isn't the most prime example of toxic consumerism then I don't know what is.
Click to expand...
I don't think Apple is going to get close to matching dGPU performance with this SoC thing they're doing. GPUs make a lot of heat doing what they do best.

All the M1s so far are Baby Town. Gimme one with PCI slots 😬
 
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I am utterly shocked at how well the Apple Silicon Macs are performing. I picked up a 13" M1 MBP while my 16" MBP is being repaired. I am seriously considering selling my 16" when I get it back. Now granted, I did a fresh start on the 13". Trying to restore from Time Machine failed miserably (endless login loading). My TM only goes back a few months but the image itself dates back 4+ years. I will try with a fresh 16".

But the battery is better than anything I've ever seen, it stays cool, it handles a heavy load well.... The $1400 13" is at least AS GOOD as my $2800+ 16".

The only downside is that I would like a discrete GPU.

Edit: I stand corrected. The M1 GPU shreds the GTX 1050.
 
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I bought a 2018 i7/32GB/1TB Mini in March. It should last 6 years.
2012 i7 I bought in 2014 lasted almost 6 years.
LOL.

That said, I can and need to fire up three CentOS 8 VMs with 4 cores and 4GB RAM and they are totally usable.

M1 can't do that, yet, and it will be a while before AARM64 become really mainstream enough for RedHat and Ubuntu (and FreeBSD) to consider them first-class citizens.

So, it was the best choice back then (too many problems reported with external displays with the 16" MBP, at least at that time) and would still be the best choice now.

Buying something is always a point-in-time decision.

If you wait, something better will come along and if you wait even longer, something even better will come along.
At that point, you should realize that you don't really need the thing you intended to buy and should direct your attention elsewhere.

But, these CPUs are the first shot, the lowest tier - and the hype is already surreal.

Whatever comes next - it will be interesting.
 
thelnnovator said:
I just spent $4k in September, on a 16" MBP, i9 with 32GB and 5600m and I'm concerned that this device will just tank in value when the M1 or M2 take fully over. I'm debating if I should ask Apple to return or sell this machine before they become obsolete.
Click to expand...
I don't think the problem with your 16 is the M1. The problem is that the 16 is not well-designed in some respects to begin with, i.e. heat management and lack of dedicated AC-in at proper wattage, that create obstacles to leveraging the processing power for which you shelled out $4k. Apple Silicon offers a way for future models to correct these disadvantages, though as others mentioned, the proof will be in the pudding whether power draw stays low if/when four displays are attached, and, as I'll throw in, the M1 has lots of inherent bad design for pro computers that Apple merely priced into our expectations in advance by inflicting iPad-ness onto 4th and 5th gen MBPs.

Anyway my take is that if you're unhappy with the fans or if you're experiencing battery drain during charging due to intensive use, you need a new machine. If not, you don't need one, but feel free to get it anyway.
 
thelnnovator said:
Just wondering if people think the Intel Mac's wont have a market later on.
Click to expand...
Sure there will remain a market - but the real question is how much demand there will be and how it compares to the available supply.

My guess is there'll be a more Intel macs available on the used market than there are people interested in buying them. If true, then your current Intel Mac likely won't ever be worth any more later than it's worth today. I'd also expect the potential resale value to drop faster now than it would've otherwise -- the reason being that Intel support will be closed-ended even if today we don't yet know for how long.
 
deeddawg said:
Sure there will remain a market - but the real question is how much demand there will be and how it compares to the available supply.

My guess is there'll be a more Intel macs available on the used market than there are people interested in buying them. If true, then your current Intel Mac likely won't ever be worth any more later than it's worth today. I'd also expect the potential resale value to drop faster now than it would've otherwise -- the reason being that Intel support will be closed-ended even if today we don't yet know for how long.
Click to expand...

Anything engineering related will remain intel.
 
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I have the same system as you and I bought it specifically because of Apple Silicon.

As for value, I can't say...I buy these things for productivity and not resale...if they fall in value they fall in value. As long as they run fast and reliability to help me make money, I'm okay with whatever the resale outcome is.

As for support, I think we're most likely going to get new OS' for years. It seems very possible that Intel Macs may get new OS' through 2024-2025 and security updates for even longer. This will probably not be like the PPC transition at all between several recent Intel Mac releases, AppleCare, how the entire computing industry still mostly revolves around x86-64, refurbished sales, how Apple now has to actually design/build rather than being able to purchase silicon outright, and Apple's recent trend of long periods of support.

As for performance, the M1 Macs are not comparable to the 16-inch with the 5600M. The next generation 16-inch will almost certainly surpass the 16-inch with the 5600M, at least with their higher spec configurations in regards to graphics performance given the 5600M is already yielding excellent efficiency that Apple has to match or beat with the flagship 16-inch's SoC. The next-next generation will then almost certainly surpass the next generation, and so on.

If the system you bought works well for you, helps improve your productivity, helps make you money, enables you to have the graphics performance you need, etc., it makes all the sense in the world to keep it. If not, then returning it might make more sense IMO. It's a lot more money if it doesn't have a clear purpose than if it serves you well and enables you to do the things you want to do. That's my opinion, at least.
 
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Maxwells_Equations said:
What exactly is performance my friend? Does it have a unit? Can it be derived?

A watt is a watt, and it generates the same amount of energy which is the same amount of heat no matter how to produce that watt of power.
Click to expand...
Yes but work produced by energy is not the same. That's proven by the metrics that the M1 chip can deliver over the Intel product. That means measurable results with less energy, and when scaled can mean an immeasurable difference to a company or individual running a rendering farm or data warehouse. Imagine AWS or Facebook's infrastructure and the amount of cooling that must happen, 24x7 to ensure the computers can run. Now imagine a smaller footprint, that can do more work, with an extremely lower thermal footprint. That can add up to millions and the M1 at its hottest is cooler than most intel chips of comparable speed while idle.
 
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Maxwells_Equations said:
Anything engineering related will remain intel.
Click to expand...
Those folks who are dependent on Windows only software will eventually be buying Windows PCs or dealing with some form of emulator. Won't occur overnight of course


Maxwells_Equations said:
What exactly is performance my friend? Does it have a unit? Can it be derived?

A watt is a watt, and it generates the same amount of energy which is the same amount of heat no matter how to produce that watt of power.
Click to expand...
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performance_per_watt#

Yes, a watt is a watt -- but the amount of computational work performed per watt will vary by CPU architecture/design/generation/etc.
 
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thelnnovator said:
I just spent $4k in September, on a 16" MBP, i9 with 32GB and 5600m
Click to expand...
Plenty of discussions about this already.
The is no 16" MBP with M1. So there's no replacement for your machine.
There's no M1 model with 32GB of RAM. If you open 20GB of files on your machine it will load it into RAM. If you do it on a M1 machine, it won't fit and will have to swap. The 5600m is faster than the integrated GPU on the M1 MBP.

Of course Intel machines will tank in value. Apple will leave Intel behind. So unless you bought a totally over-specced machine for what you do, you shouldn't worry too much. If you could have lived with a 13" MBP with Intel CPU and 16GB RAM in the first place, then why did you buy the 16" in the first place?

For what you have now, a replacement will likely arrive next year with an even better SoC, more memory and probably a re-design. So keep using your 16" for at least another year, maybe another year on top of that and then start to worry about something new.
 
I think what the OP is getting at has more to do with investment. They invested in a product that is no longer the future. Based on the entry level M1, there is a lot of reason to invest in what these chips will be able to do by this time next year.

I'm also skeptical. I need an iMac... badly. I'm tempted to purchase an Intel version for now, but I feel like it will be a poor purchase in less than a year.
 
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