WMP 9: Open and on Mac this Fall

[Fukui]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Fool me once shame on you, Fool me 9,836 times shame on me.

........

I want to beleve this is the real deal but there is this little voice in me saying You’ll be sooooooorrrrrry

This is how they do things.
They "open" their specification to gain wide industry support (.NET, COM, Java, and now WMV) then once everyone follows they extend it beyond what the original spec called for and "forget" to release the enhanced/changed windows-only version, and since everyone is "hooked" on their formats, they just migrate towards MS' version because they have no choice, of course windows only....
...the sad thing is, it won't end after 9,836 times...

I just wish these slow MPEG slugs would just accelerate their work on MPEG-10 and apple would get off their @SSES and produce an awesome MP4 encoder..one better then FFMPEG or Mencoder...for FREE!

Thats how MS plays their game, and others will have to do the same if they want to survive.

 

[SiliconAddict]

Re: How is this bad news?

Originally posted by mstecker
I get no end of amusement from seeing the knee-jerk microsoft bashing around here.

[scratch]

I just don't get it.

Its not knee-jerked. Its experience with the whole "If it sounds to good to be true..." thing. I work with Windows day in and out. I watch the discussion boards on Microsoft.com I talk with MS employees 6 floors above where I work all the time. (I see them in the little cafeteria downstairs.) I'm a MS watcher. I want to know what MS is up to because it concerns the entire computer industry when they take a 90* turn.
Its practical experience with this company. They use any tactic, slime ball or legit, necessary to gain the advantage so it usually is a very prudent thing to think before jumping onto anything Microsoft releases to the masses.
Always ask the basic question "What is their angle?" Because Microsoft doesn't do anything out of the goodness of their heart. This isn’t bashing. This isn’t being a zealot. This is real world experience talking. And honestly Microsoft own behavior is the root cause of any lack of trust. They have a documented history of screwing over the completion and, as bizarre as it sounds, even their friends using dirtball methods as long as it makes them money.
Again fool me once......

 

[yoshi1013]

FINALLY!

I mean, as much as I think Windows Media video is a really sucky format that looks terrible and takes forever to load, it is at times a necessary evil that we must deal with.

I'm also tired of all the crap I have to go through to watch DivX files which use Windows media audio encoding. WMP 7.1 (Still on OS 9 here 🙁 ) sucks as an application too, what is it with crappy streaming media apps that take forever to quit?

 

[cubist]

Originally posted by Fukui
This is how they do things.
They "open" their specification to gain wide industry support (.NET, COM, Java, and now WMV) then once everyone follows they extend it beyond what the original spec called for ...
Thats how MS plays their game, and others will have to do the same if they want to survive.

Microsoft refers to this strategy as "Embrace and Extend".

 

[Photorun]

I refer to this M$ policy as "cluster and ***k"

 

[MacEyeDoc]

Re: How is this bad news?

Originally posted by mstecker
I get no end of amusement from seeing the knee-jerk microsoft bashing around here. A story in which

- Microsoft announces opening of its format
- Microsoft announces support of WMP9 for the Mac

gets more negative than positive ratings? Sure, you might like to see them make the standard more open, but how is this bad news? I just don't get it.

Let's see:

- Microsoft announces it is buying Virtual PC
- Many people knee-jerk bash them for this
- Others say we shouldn't be so quick to criticize Microsoft
- G5's ship!
- Virtual PC doesn't run on the G5's!!
- Microsoft has no immediate plans to upgrade Virtual PC!!!
- Suddenly, if you buy a G5, you have to also buy a WinTel box if you want Windows access (and the current VPC you paid for is no good to you) #%@*!!

I'm sure glad I didn't knee jerk bash M$ until I found out just how bad they were going to screw us.

BASH!!!

As other posters have said, you can never trust Microsoft.

 

[Fukui]

Re: Re: How is this bad news?

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
They use any tactic, slime ball or legit, necessary to gain the advantage so it usually is a very prudent thing to think before jumping onto anything Microsoft releases to the masses.
Always ask the basic question "What is their angle?" ....
This is real world experience talking. And honestly Microsoft own behavior is the root cause of any lack of trust.

Exactly, and this is how they lost me as a customer....not that I was ever satisfied anyways...

Suing and stealing from their own partners is not what I would call trustworthy computing.

 

[AidenShaw]

Blame Apple and IBM for a partial PowerPC implementation

Originally posted by MacEyeDoc
- Virtual PC doesn't run on the G5's!!

And why's that?

It's because Connectix coded Virtual PC to conform to the PowerPC "Book E" implementation, and then Apple adopts an IBM chip which is a partial implementation of "Book E".

The G5 fiasco rests solely on the shoulders of Apple and IBM, not on Connectix and certainly not on Microsoft (which purchased Virtual PC about 2 weeks before the G5 was announced).

Paranoia will destroy ya'

 

[sedarby]

Re: Blame Apple and IBM for a partial PowerPC implementation

Originally posted by AidenShaw
And why's that?

It's because Connectix coded Virtual PC to conform to the PowerPC "Book E" implementation, and then Apple adopts an IBM chip which is a partial implementation of "Book E".

The G5 fiasco rests solely on the shoulders of Apple and IBM, not on Connectix and certainly not on Microsoft (which purchased Virtual PC about 2 weeks before the G5 was announced).

Paranoia will destroy ya'

Not paranoia just history. Microsoft bought Connectix for a server product. Virtual PC just happened to be included. A G5 version is supposed to be available within a year, IIRC. Microsoft has a terrible PR problem now and this does not help matters. The solution of "buy a cheap wintel box" is not viable for laptop users who need to use a single application or two. So now they get to carry 2 laptops. Not paranoid just concerned for the future.
Microsoft has earned the right to be bashed.

 

[MacEyeDoc]

Re: Blame Apple and IBM for a partial PowerPC implementation

Originally posted by AidenShaw
And why's that?

It's because Connectix coded Virtual PC to conform to the PowerPC "Book E" implementation, and then Apple adopts an IBM chip which is a partial implementation of "Book E".

The G5 fiasco rests solely on the shoulders of Apple and IBM, not on Connectix and certainly not on Microsoft (which purchased Virtual PC about 2 weeks before the G5 was announced).

And how concerned was Microsoft about this ? From what I could tell, there was nearly zero concern. Apple undoubtedly had to make some concessions to use the IBM chip, and with Motorola being the worst supplier of chips any computer company could imagine, I don't blame them. Still, the lack of enthusiam by MS to support VPC on the G5's helps illustrate the point that they do things when it is to their advantage, even if, and perhaps especially if, it is disadvantageous to someone else.

 

[midiman]

tell me exactly why allowing VPC to remain unusable on G5's helps microsoft? Not only do they lose the revenue from the app, but the licensing from whatever version of windows. Remember, MS does not make cpu's, just the operating system(for now, anyway), so a mac user running windows on their mac is just as good as a pc user doing the same. Not that I'm any particular fan of M$, but come on, have a little common sense!

 

[AidenShaw]

Re: Re: Blame Apple and IBM for a partial PowerPC implementation

Originally posted by MacEyeDoc
And how concerned was Microsoft about this ? From what I could tell, there was nearly zero concern.

Where are these reports of "zero concern" ?

Think about what would have happened here. Was MS one of the first partners to get a prototype G5 for testing? I'd guess not.

How many engineers do you suppose work in the MacBU on Virtual PC for Mac? Probably not enough that they could drop everything and do a quick rewrite of some core components of VPC/Mac to support the G5, and still meet other plans and commitments.

Don't you suspect that the VPC/Mac team was blind-sided by the G5 issue, and "next major release" was the only reasonable timeframe for support? If you don't believe that, you probably have no experience in a good-sized software development environment.

 

[Mudbug]

well, in my opinion, it's probably going to take these motion picture folks 6-12 months to realize the speed and quality of WM9 sucks.

It only took me about 2 seconds, but I don't have martinis at lunch.

well, not usually. 🙂

 

[bluedalmatian]

Is this the unexpected software announcement that was supossed to occur today? 😉

 

[montecristo]

While Microsoft may not have intentionally made VPC incompatible with G5's, withholding VPC from the G5's helps Microsoft in (at least) two ways:
1. G5's are a superior computer. You can imagine that there are many Wintel users who are deciding to buy a new computer and a G5 is a very good option. But as a switcher, you would have to make sure you can run everything you need for home or for business. VPC is supposed to help make switching easier. But if VPC doesn't work on a G5, people would be a little less likely to switch. Sure, a Windows PC and a Mac using VPC is still one Windows license for M$, but ultimately, it is just a little less control they have, in the long run, of the operating system market. Microsoft knows that once people see that they have other options for OS, they will see that they have other options for a lot of other markets in which Microsoft competes.

2. They save money on having to develop software that won't work smoothly.😉

I agree that in the long run, they will have to develop a VPC that will work on G5s, but they are not going to make it any easier for people to switch. People will have to decide to swtich to Macs despite the VPC incompatiability, and then when Microsoft sees that more and more people are switching, then they release VPC for G5s, in which case they look like a savior, and rake in all the money from licensing Windows on VPC.....They win now, and they win later.

 

[legion]

Actually WMP9 on Windows is pretty good (easy, straight forward, great lookup features and auto indexing of your music files.) Of course, I don't use WMA or any such microsoft format, but the player itself is really quite good.

WMP on Mac though is horrible. It's a piece o' crap with no real functionality. When Mac users see WMP9 running on my laptop, they're always wondering what it is, etc. When I tell 'em it's WMP, they always leave a little confused because of the crap MS puts out to the Mac users.

The other nice thing (and I'm not advocating breaking "the law" here) is that there is a very simple registry hack (2 key changes, if you're familiar with Windows) to use the Fraunhofer MP3 encoder without paying the licensing fee and it also sets it as the default ripper in WMP9 so you don't have to deal with Microsoft formats anywhere (otherwise the WMP always will try to use WMA format) It seems that WMP9 already has the F. encoder, but it isn't activated until you get a key from Fraunhofer.


On the otherhand, be very cautious of MS... they have never conducted any business moves for the "good of mankind."

 

[Fukui]

Re: Re: Re: Blame Apple and IBM for a partial PowerPC implementation

Originally posted by AidenShaw
How many engineers do you suppose work in the MacBU on Virtual PC for Mac? Probably not enough that they could drop everything and do a quick rewrite of some core components of VPC/Mac to support the G5, and still meet other plans and commitments.

If those VPC engineers only worked on VPC, what would it have been they need to "drop everything" to fix VPC ??

They hired the entire mac VPC team.
I guess 200+ engineers aren't enough....
Come to think of it, why does MS need 200+ engineers to work on 4 buggy, slow and hardly updated applications???

 

[AidenShaw]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Blame Apple and IBM for a partial PowerPC implementation

Originally posted by Fukui
If those VPC engineers only worked on VPC, what would it have been they need to "drop everything" to fix VPC ??

Do you suppose that maybe they were already working on the "next major version", as well as support and bugfix issues?

Do you think that the "next major version" already had a work item to "rip up the guts of the emulator to support a new partial implementation of the PowerPC"?

And of course, of the "200+ engineers" in the MacBU (whether or not that number is accurate) - only a handful have experience and knowledge of VPC/Mac.

So, I think that the term "drop everything" is pretty accurate.

 

[areyouwishing]

MS is opening up WM so they don't have to develop the player anymore, they can just release another "codec" and make others develop for it. They get the best of both worlds, they are looking like a good guy "opening" their software and they don't have to develop the app anymore to support it.

 

[SiliconAddict]

*smack forehead* Silly me. I remember the parallels now.
Everyone remember that little company called Netscape right? How it was doing quite well and making a rather good browser. Along comes Microsoft and basically says me to. They release IE1 that was the biggest software POS ever created by Microsoft which is saying a lot. IE 2 wasn’t a whole heck of a lot better. Then IE 3 came on the scene. What was different with IE 3? Two things. First they shipped it with everything. Literally. I mean you bought MS office it was there. You bought a game from Microsoft it was on the CD. You bought a freaking mouse for god sake it was on the CD. You bought a PC magazine guess what came with it? Yep IE. And the real kick in the shorts to Netscape was that they charged for their product. How was Netscape expected to challenge a free product when their bread and butter was based off of Navigator? Answer: They weren’t.
Many a word has been typed on the net discussing Microsoft vs. Netscape. One of the most common arguments is that if MS wants to give away software for free that’s their business. But guess what is happening now that MS owns 90%+/- of the browser market? No new versions of IE for Apple. No new versions of IE for Windows. If you want IE you are going to have to buy a new version of Windows. Amazing what happens when there is no competent left.
As someone else pointed out there are massive parallels between the browser wars and this. Microsoft has been trying to push into the streaming media business for years with little success again Real Media and Apple. So how can MS make headway? Eat the costs and put it out for free or really cheap until they crush the competition and then reel everyone back in. So yes. Short run this is good for everyone. Long run you are selling your soul to Microsoft once again. But of course no one will realize this until its too late.
🙄

 

[Fukui]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Blame Apple and IBM for a partial PowerPC implementation

Originally posted by AidenShaw

And of course, of the "200+ engineers" in the MacBU (whether or not that number is accurate) - only a handful have experience and knowledge of VPC/Mac.

Like I wrote above, MS inherited the entire VPC mac team. VPC for mac and windows have SEPARATE teams. And if they for some reason neglected to check wether or not 970 was little/big endian compatible then its their fault for negligence. You can't tell me that for 6+ months they've been doing nothing but bug fixes? The update MS put out only fixed 4 bugs...4 BUGS after 6 months.

 

[daveL]

Re: Re: Blame Apple and IBM for a partial PowerPC implementation

Originally posted by sedarby
The solution of "buy a cheap wintel box" is not viable for laptop users who need to use a single application or two. So now they get to carry 2 laptops. Not paranoid just concerned for the future.
Microsoft has earned the right to be bashed.

But, but, but ... there are no G5 laptops, yet.

In any case, I sure hope MS doesn't take a year to provide G5 VPC support. I'd like to think G5 support will be one of the first things they do with VPC, but who knows?

 

[dmbream]

WWDC beta?

Did anyone get their hands on the WMP9 beta from the WWDC in May? One was not publicly released, though I recall reading about a demonstration of the software during one of the sessions. Anyone else remember that?

Fill us in.

 

[rotorblade]

A ploy!

This is just a ploy by Microsoft to get the EU off their back while attempting to get up close and personal with the entertainment industry so we can all get molested by their DRM strategy.

 

[midifarm]

Who cares?