wobble and tilt, do the hokey pokey

stubeeef

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Aug 10, 2004
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Link

To add new theories to those discussed here, an ongoing debate/education for those of us curious as to mechanisms of the enviornment.
 

jsw

Moderator emeritus
Mar 16, 2004
22,910
41
Andover, MA
Interesting article. When I clicked to view the thread, I thought that it was about yet another new app to take advantage of the new PB accelerometers. ;)
 

Nickygoat

macrumors 6502a
Dec 11, 2004
992
0
London
I remember doing this in Geology about 10 years ago. It wasn't referenced to the Earth's orbit though. This and vulcanology were the only things I liked in Geology. I'll throw in the theory that the Earth 'flips' every so often (I forget the time frame) and it becomes fascinating. A what if? game if you like :)
 

miloblithe

macrumors 68020
Nov 14, 2003
2,072
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Washington, DC
Interesting article. This part confused me though:

"Earth's axis is currently pointing at the North Star, Polaris, but it is always rotating around in a conical pattern. In about 10,000 years, it will point toward the star Vega, which will mean that winter in the Northern Hemisphere will begin in June instead of January. After 20,000 years, the axis will again point at Polaris."

How would a 1.5 degree change shift the winter all the way to June? Wouldn't the earth essentially have to tilt to the opposite slant, so that the southern hemisphere is angled where the northern hemisphere is angled now to switch the seasons?
 

stubeeef

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Aug 10, 2004
2,702
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Nickygoat said:
I remember doing this in Geology about 10 years ago. It wasn't referenced to the Earth's orbit though. This and vulcanology were the only things I liked in Geology. I'll throw in the theory that the Earth 'flips' every so often (I forget the time frame) and it becomes fascinating. A what if? game if you like :)
Ya earth polar flips, magnatic field changes and other phenomzs are very interesting, need a unified theory to make it all interact, getting too many parameters for my 3mhz brain to process!

With lowering magnetic fields as the earth is presently experiencing combined with increased solar output which is happening, makes for a warm place to be sure. Add co2, wobble, and pig/cow methane and the next thing you know the only snow skiing will be on mars' poles!
 

Nickygoat

macrumors 6502a
Dec 11, 2004
992
0
London
miloblithe said:
Interesting article. This part confused me though:

"Earth's axis is currently pointing at the North Star, Polaris, but it is always rotating around in a conical pattern. In about 10,000 years, it will point toward the star Vega, which will mean that winter in the Northern Hemisphere will begin in June instead of January. After 20,000 years, the axis will again point at Polaris."

How would a 1.5 degree change shift the winter all the way to June? Wouldn't the earth essentially have to tilt to the opposite slant, so that the southern hemisphere is angled where the northern hemisphere is angled now to switch the seasons?
Ignore the part about it pointing towards Polaris. In 13000 years Polaris will not be, as is now, the North Star due to the Precession of the Equinoxes. Polaris will be in a different place entirely. Summer in what is now winter will occur because of the direction the Earth is pointing towards the Sun. See here for a long winded explanation. It does have a nice diagram though :p
 

miloblithe

macrumors 68020
Nov 14, 2003
2,072
28
Washington, DC
OK. I see. So what changes the season is the orientation of the earth's angle not really the angle itself, in a sense. I was kind of thinking that for the earth's seasons to switch like that the tilt would have to go from like 24 degrees to negative 24 degrees (in any given position in the orbit around the sun). I guess the way they are thinking of the 24-22.5 is in relation to the earth itself, not the sun (although in reference to the sun as 90 degrees).

Just different ways of thinking about the math.
 

Nickygoat

macrumors 6502a
Dec 11, 2004
992
0
London
miloblithe said:
OK. I see. So what changes the season is the orientation of the earth's angle not really the angle itself, in a sense. I was kind of thinking that for the earth's seasons to switch like that the tilt would have to go from like 24 degrees to negative 24 degrees (in any given position in the orbit around the sun). I guess the way they are thinking of the 24-22.5 is in relation to the earth itself, not the sun (although in reference to the sun as 90 degrees).

Just different ways of thinking about the math.
Yeah. The angle of rotation is around an imaginary line running from pole to pole. The Earth rotates around this line. This is in addition to the rotation of the Earth's orbit around the Sun which causes the seasons we have now to fall where they do. in winter the Northern Hemisphere is slightly further away from the sun than in Summer - hence cooler weather and longer shadows. and also why magnetic North changes every so often. The original link also mentions that global warming might have an effect on speeding up a new ice age. Though whether that is true or not is anybody's guess - I've also read plenty of articles saying the opposite.
 

stubeeef

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Aug 10, 2004
2,702
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Nickygoat said:
I've also read plenty of articles saying the opposite.
Ah the exactness of science! Gotta love it, but the questions are just too much fun and the theories to good to imagine.

While I believe that the mechanisms for global warming are more natural than man made, I am positive that the man made parts are still bad.

I enjoy reading about magnetic fields, polar shifts, solar cycles, and the like. I still only understand the articles written in crayon, but enjoy them none-theless. I love the theories that are 180degrees from popular thought, just the idea of a scientist going out on a limb to publish those is fun to see and experience.
 

Nickygoat

macrumors 6502a
Dec 11, 2004
992
0
London
stubeeef said:
Ah the exactness of science! Gotta love it, but the questions are just too much fun and the theories to good to imagine.

While I believe that the mechanisms for global warming are more natural than man made, I am positive that the man made parts are still bad.

I enjoy reading about magnetic fields, polar shifts, solar cycles, and the like. I still only understand the articles written in crayon, but enjoy them none-theless. I love the theories that are 180degrees from popular thought, just the idea of a scientist going out on a limb to publish those is fun to see and experience.
It's like the flat earth theory. The two best ones (for me) are Bjorn Lomborg telling all the environmentalists they're idiots and James Lovelock guru of Friends Of The Earth and of the Gaia movement saying that nuclear power was the answer :p
 
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