Woman, 92, dies in shootout with police

[Dont Hurt Me]

Yes, too much control by the government is bad.



Now, and I'm sorry, this is just mho. But that is %^&*ing stupid
While we're at it, legalize drunk driving, cigarettes for little kids, and just go ahead and toss out any sort of rules on who can own a gun. Heck, hand them out at play grounds. The world is better when everyone gets to do whatever they want


I can't say it for smoking, but at least guns and alcohol can be used safely, and even have benefits. There is no safe way or benefit to cocaine. I'm sorry. Have you ever seen someone on that sh*t?!!!
Perhaps you are quite the wisend old man, but you don't strike me as having any experience with drugs and the lifestyle it brings

No whats Stupid is shooting little old ladys for the drug war thats stupid. Big Brother isnt going to solve societys problems by making a law for everything you do. Your drug war is a failure. Legalize it you can control it, keep it under ground and more cops,little old ladys and others will be killed for nothing. Just look at prohibition or look at why weed is illegal. Has nothing to do with weed and everything to do with mexicans that our govt is letting in by the millions. Politicians love people that cant think further then their next spin phrase.

 

[Earendil]

Most illegal drugs can be used safely

You have got to say more than that, because what you said after is no counter point. If by used "safely" you mean in such tiny doses that you don't feel anything than yes (but still no earthly benefits). However the only reason people use them is for the effect they have on brain and/or body, and at those levels just about every last one of them is either toxic to your body, or impairs your mental and decision making abilities. The only good argument for any of them is as a pain killer, and even that can only be applied to some of them.

Personally I think they should make getting drunk illegal, because it does far far far far more harm than good. The only good it does is as a way of getting people sexually loose, and as an escape from ones own life and responsibilities. However at least that one isn't highly addictive (though alcoholism has destroyed many families and many people).

they were all (except crack which we all know was created by the CIA) once legal and available typically without a prescription.

And doctors got many WWII soldiers hooked on morphine because it was handed out like candy before they new about it's highly addictive qualities. However I don't think that's a reason for a 14 y.o to be able to purchase a shot down at the quicky mart.

Using the logic that "it once wasn't illegal" can be used to strip away every single law.

Historically what has typically driven the US to make various substances illegal is not the danger they pose, but instead latent if not blatant racism and classism.

I would be very interested in some good reading on the subject from notable authors or publishers. In my wide reading I have come across very little that said that that is a "typical" practice for making substances of any kind illegal. I know of a few small cases, but that doesn't mean you get to apply it to every case, nor does it mean it isn't a good idea to begin with, even if it was also used for evil.

for those that beleive everything that is spewed out by the government, please do some independentt research, investigate many differing views. Then, and only then, accept what you decide is most reasonble.

If I was one of those blind believers I wouldn't be having this conversation with you

All governments and beurocracies have vested interests that are not necessarily what are best for the public. Accepting everything any government or agent therof says does not make you a good American or citizen, contrary to what the current administration would have you beleive, it makes you a lazy sheep, one of the things that the founders of this country feared most. Today we have the right to bear arms specifically because the founders of this country (as imperfect as they were) realized that citizens of any country can often times be easily swayed, and that democracies, even democratic republics such as our own, can and do slip into dictatorships and autocracy such as the Weimar Republic.

Um, yes, all well and good. It is only a matter of time before the US falls, and I'll do my part to delay that. However you didn't address my point, and that is that painting it black and white is a horrible solution.

Just because you *think* the government is using the law against illegal drug use in the US does not mean that the law is in fact a bad idea. Nor does it mean that we need to turn a complete 180 degrees and make everything perfectly legal. Prescription drugs are an example of highly addictive and dangerous drugs, but they are regulated by those people that know all the effects, and can rely on a doctor to teach you about them before you use them. Now don't get me started on the FCC, and the system is far far from perfect. But making it all legal is a very bad idea imo. The day the US does that is the day I leave.

Have you watched a good guy and friend go down hill and throw his life away, start robbing and stealing just to feed his addiction? You watch that and get back to me on legalizing it.

~Tyler

 

[Earendil]

No whats Stupid is shooting little old ladys for the drug war thats stupid. Big Brother isnt going to solve societys problems by making a law for everything you do. Your drug war is a failure. Legalize it you can control it, keep it under ground and more cops,little old ladys and others will be killed for nothing. Just look at prohibition or look at why weed is illegal. Has nothing to do with weed and everything to do with mexicans that our govt is letting in by the millions. Politicians love people that cant think further then their next spin phrase.

Alcohol and weed are tame little kittens compared most of the drugs out there.
No, it's a shame an old lady was shot, but it happens. People die in all kinds of stupid ways while someone is trying to do some good for the world.
And btw, if you had a gun, and I started unloading a clip and you and your buddies, all of you were shot, you don't think you'd fire back?

Okay, so you're going to respond with "They shouldn't have been there at all". Well how about your friend invites you over to his house, whoops, you walked up to the wrong, house, mistake.

The cops did not go in there intending to kill an old lady. And the old Lady probably didn't intend to shoot cops. However mistakes were made, and this time people died. Get over it. There are more important deaths happening in this would for far more senseless reasons to be worried about a single death compared to the many saved by those people who devote their life to keeping us "safe". Even if it isn't your definition of safe, it is my definition of safe, and I'll continue to vote in a way that gives me that level of safety. I'd suggest if that bothers you, that you move to Costa Rica with the rest of the people sick of Governments. Personally I think half of them are kooks, but interesting ones, and the weather is nice down there.

~Tyler

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

We need to choose do we want a country of freedom,liberty and personal responsibility or do we want a fascist police state monitoring everyone and everything they do? I didnt say hand out drugs to kids, I said legalize and control them like alcohol or tobacco. At the moment keeping it all under ground empowers the drug dealers & the control freaks and prison makers. Legalize them and both are out of business.

Drug war is a failure, we can do better by pumping $$$ into education & people rather then prisons. Stupid is as stupid does and breaking into a little old ladys home for this is stupid.

 

[Earendil]

We need to choose do we want a country of freedom,liberty and personal responsibility or do we want a fascist police state monitoring everyone and everything they do?

Personally I'd rather have something in the middle, not paint it black and white.

I didnt say hand out drugs to kids, I said legalize and control them like alcohol or tobacco.

I think your words were:
"Control freaks will allways try to push their control on others."
*snip*
"Legalizing drugs would eliminate this stupidity and would give true control over drugs but that wouldnt build the politicians police state now would it?"

At the moment keeping it all under ground empowers the drug dealers & the control freaks and prison makers. Legalize them and both are out of business.

Not really. Drug dealers will still be able to sell it cheaper than any government agency or FCC section company could.
And Prisons will still house all the idiots that actually use the stuff and go do something stupid. Besides, half the crimes committed because of cocaine and the like are due to robbery in order to get the money to buy the stuff, or killing for it.
Making it "legal" to do both of those will help neither of them. All it would allow is for the distributors to more opening distribute.

Drug war is a failure, we can do better by pumping $$$ into education & people rather then prisons. Stupid is as stupid does and breaking into a little old ladys home for this is stupid.

Me might be able to do better with education. I'd guarantee that there is indeed a better way of doing it. But having society and our government condone the use of such drugs by legalizing them and selling them is a huge step backwards. How in the world are we going to teach our kids not to use drugs if the government as well as peer influence is telling them it's okay? Not to mention access will be far easier, rules or not. It's not like it's a real challenge to get alcohal if you're under 21

And it does sound bad, breaking into an old ladies home.
But would you condone breaking into a thugs home who is selling your kids crack?
What difference does sex or age really make?

 

[Earendil]

It seems some of you have a problem with drug control and the way the government uses that issue, and think the solution is it legalize drugs.

I think you have a problem with the government, and that dealing with the drug issue isn't going to solve your problem with the government.

 

[poopyhead]

Have you watched a good guy and friend go down hill and throw his life away, start robbing and stealing just to feed his addiction? You watch that and get back to me on legalizing it.

~Tyler

I have and do know several people who have and do use illegal substances, but I have never known anyone who has started robbing or stealing to feed their addiction. I have seen peoples lives destroyed in part due to meth, but I would argue (as 2 of them did) that the drugs were not the cause of their problems they were instead what was turned to for solace when no answers existed to difficult questions and situations. Drugs are more of a symptom to a problem and not a problem in and of themselves.

Further, for 3.5 years I went to a top 20 University. At that school I knew more people who used drugs regularly than at my current institution and strangely enough all of the drug users I knew had at or near genious IQs. Most of them graduated with GPAs above 3.0, and several of them went on to some of the finest medical and law schools in the country. The vast majority of the drug users I know (only speaking from my own experience) are amazingly successful extremely intelligent individuals. In fact most of the people I know and have known who use drugs do not simply use them as an escape, but instead see them as a way of expanding and testing perception. Given that my experiences are the opposite end of the socio-economic spectrum than the typical crack head, I cannot answer to the drug culture at large, but I am willing to bet that there are more people who use drugs and do not destroy their lives than people who do.

 

[benthewraith]

If we were to legalize drugs, what should be allowed to be legalized and what shouldn't? Ecstasy is very dangerous, an overdose would shut down the hypothalamus, terminating the body's temperature regulation. That wouldn't be a good thing. There's a reason drugs are against the law, and that is because a significant portion of them can potentially cause damage the first use and be killed.

Government control? Hell, the government can't control prescription drug abuse. Drugs such as oxycontin, hydocodone, and versed are out on the streets each day. An overdose with any of these can be fatal. Who do you think will stand to benefit from the legalization of marijuana? The people who are growing them right now. Do you know what they find in the average marijuana bag?

The people growing them in S. America will just get richer, and who do you think works for them? Who tends to the marijuana fields?

 

[killr_b]

i stand corrected, however ive heard many times from notable professors the term novogenarian, which may have its roots elsewhere than the usa.

I also stand corrected, as it would be incorrect to spell color with a 'u' in America, it is correct in England.
I always forget people online can be from anywhere.
My bad?

 

[killr_b]

You have got to say more than that, because what you said after is no counter point. If by used "safely" you mean in such tiny doses that you don't feel anything than yes (but still no earthly benefits). However the only reason people use them is for the effect they have on brain and/or body, and at those levels just about every last one of them is either toxic to your body, or impairs your mental and decision making abilities. The only good argument for any of them is as a pain killer, and even that can only be applied to some of them.

Personally I think they should make getting drunk illegal, because it does far far far far more harm than good. The only good it does is as a way of getting people sexually loose, and as an escape from ones own life and responsibilities. However at least that one isn't highly addictive (though alcoholism has destroyed many families and many people).

And doctors got many WWII soldiers hooked on morphine because it was handed out like candy before they new about it's highly addictive qualities. However I don't think that's a reason for a 14 y.o to be able to purchase a shot down at the quicky mart.

Using the logic that "it once wasn't illegal" can be used to strip away every single law.

I would be very interested in some good reading on the subject from notable authors or publishers. In my wide reading I have come across very little that said that that is a "typical" practice for making substances of any kind illegal. I know of a few small cases, but that doesn't mean you get to apply it to every case, nor does it mean it isn't a good idea to begin with, even if it was also used for evil.

If I was one of those blind believers I wouldn't be having this conversation with you

Um, yes, all well and good. It is only a matter of time before the US falls, and I'll do my part to delay that. However you didn't address my point, and that is that painting it black and white is a horrible solution.

Just because you *think* the government is using the law against illegal drug use in the US does not mean that the law is in fact a bad idea. Nor does it mean that we need to turn a complete 180 degrees and make everything perfectly legal. Prescription drugs are an example of highly addictive and dangerous drugs, but they are regulated by those people that know all the effects, and can rely on a doctor to teach you about them before you use them. Now don't get me started on the FCC, and the system is far far from perfect. But making it all legal is a very bad idea imo. The day the US does that is the day I leave.

Have you watched a good guy and friend go down hill and throw his life away, start robbing and stealing just to feed his addiction? You watch that and get back to me on legalizing it.

~Tyler

Ok. Number one. Have you ever done any drugs?
You can definitely take reasonable doses of any illicit drug and get super farking faded.
OMG, and the reason you feel different is that they are all toxic and poisonous.
Hence the phrase, "pick your poison."
Number two. We've know about the addictive nature of opiates since ancient China.
Number three. Legal doesn't mean "for children." Nice leaping 'what if' there.
Number four. Just because you haven't read about it doesn't mean it isn't true or possible. Just because someone in politics does it doesn't mean it's right. Your youth is showing…
Number five. Have you seen the ranking of America in the world? We are behind the Dutch, who have extremely 'laxed drug laws, in every area but GNP.
Number six. So, you forgot what Jefferson said about revolution?
Number seven. You let your friend become what he is. And the fact that drugs are illegal lead him to more illegal activities? Maybe that wouldn't have happened if he could find a crowd to roll with that did drugs responsibly.
Number eight. When you see a sign that says "legalize it" read "decriminalize it" 'cause that's what we mean. It can be regulated and taxed just like everything else. Then we make money instead of spending it.

Oh, and the difference between alcohol and pot is this:
You ever heard of a stoner beating his wife 'cause dinner wasn't ready on time?
Personally, I'd trade in cigs and beer for weed.

Peace out,
B

 

[killr_b]

*snip*
Not really. Drug dealers will still be able to sell it cheaper than any government agency or FCC section company could.

Here in California we have prop 24, the legal use of marijuana for medical research.
A pound of weed on the street averages $3,600.
A pound of weed when the owner of the canabis club buys it for distribution to patients is $1,000.
You gotta remember that the big dealers at the top have to account for lost income on confiscated products.
The pot farmer I met said if he could sell it legally it would be about $500/ lbs. Some pay that for an ounce now, which is 16x the price.

 

[Earendil]

I love the point by point syste,, makes it a no brainer where I put the html quote boxes

Ok. Number one. Have you ever done any drugs?
You can definitely take reasonable doses of any illicit drug and get super farking faded.
OMG, and the reason you feel different is that they are all toxic and poisonous.
Hence the phrase, "pick your poison."

You admit to them being poison
Yes, I have taken a few of them. If by "responsible" you mean nothing bad can come of it, than yes. However That wasn't what I said or my point. My point is that there are little to no benefits to body, mind, or society, and there is great potential harm to mind, body, and society.

Number two. We've know about the addictive nature of opiates since ancient China.

I stand by my statement that doctors were not aware that they were getting soldiers highly addicted to morphine.
And what exactly does this have to do with the counter point I was making with that statement?

Number three. Legal doesn't mean "for children." Nice leaping 'what if' there.

"legalize it" also doesn't mean "legalize it in certain conditions". Way to be nit-picky on english there

Number four. Just because you haven't read about it doesn't mean it isn't true or possible. Just because someone in politics does it doesn't mean it's right. Your youth is showing…

I believe I was open to sources on the matter. And I never said it wasn't possible. However I'm also not going to change my mind because an anonymous user on a Mac forum told me to. That user is however allowed to back of his statement with something if he likes. You are showing you lack of discrimination in sources of information.

Number five. Have you seen the ranking of America in the world? We are behind the Dutch, who have extremely 'laxed drug laws, in every area but GNP.

Yeah, we're "behind" Columbia too. What is you point here?
"everyone else is doing it, so should we". Please, you're being a little clique in your arguments for drugs now

Number six. So, you forgot what Jefferson said about revolution?

Yeah, and there are a few other things he said that I haven't memorized yet
Care to enlighten us with your own memorization skills, or are you just going to ask a vague question?

Number seven. You let your friend become what he is. And the fact that drugs are illegal lead him to more illegal activities? Maybe that wouldn't have happened if he could find a crowd to roll with that did drugs responsibly.

Oh yeah, it's my fault. What a horribly crule, untrue, and irrelevant statement to the point at hand
You don't know what I tried to do for my friend, you don't know who he is, where he came from, or the other influences in life. But I'll tell you right now, his life didn't %^&*ing improve after starting cocaine.

And I'm pretty sure his other influences were not telling him that it was going to ruin his life and make recovering from his problems a lot harder. I'm sure they fed him a bunch of sweet lies and misplaced truths. People normally don't up and start taking poison on their own, the idea and misinformation is placed there by the "crowd they roll with".

Number eight. When you see a sign that says "legalize it" read "decriminalize it" 'cause that's what we mean. It can be regulated and taxed just like everything else. Then we make money instead of spending it.

Yes, this has been said, and I have responded to it.
There is already a system in place to sell drugs to anyone that has the money. The profit margin is not small. If we actually put every drug through the FCC and put regulations on it, you really think the drug dealers will go home? No, they can undercut any government pricing and still sell to whoever they want. So what they are doing is still illegal, right? You haven't done anything but add a more expensive alternate route to getting drugs promoted by our own government.

Oh, and the difference between alcohol and pot is this:
You ever heard of a stoner beating his wife 'cause dinner wasn't ready on time?
Personally, I'd trade in cigs and beer for weed.

Hey, so would I. And I'm quite aware of the difference between downers and uppers, and the effects of alcohol and its history.
I've also heard of(and seen) stoners doing some other pretty dumb sh*t. There are a couple rocks and flowers sitting at a 90° elbow just before an 800ft cliff. Just guess what happened.

Peace out,
B

Stay Cool,
~Tyler

 

[Earendil]

Here in California we have prop 24, the legal use of marijuana for medical research.
A pound of weed on the street averages $3,600.
A pound of weed when the owner of the canabis club buys it for distribution to patients is $1,000.
You gotta remember that the big dealers at the top have to account for lost income on confiscated products.
The pot farmer I met said if he could sell it legally it would be about $500/ lbs. Some pay that for an ounce now, which is 16x the price.

Right. But there is huge money and huge profit margins on the way things are done right now. Partly because they can due mostly to the addictive qualities of most of the drugs.

You really don't think the street price has a little room to drop?
Here is an example for you: You can get prescription medication online or from other countries cheaper than in the US.

 

[thewhitehart]

Actually yes, I have been shot at.
There is plenty of time to think.
But I guess you weren't in line to serve America, so you wouldn't know.

THERE IS EVEN MORE TIME TO WALK AROUND THE HOUSE AND CHECK IT OUT BEFORE BREAKING THE DOOR DOWN, BEFORE ANY SHOTS ARE FIRED.

[

At some point after diligent surveillance, entry will have to be gained to a premise, and at any point you should have to expect a possible exchange of gunfire. You're in the army, I suppose you should know this. I can't speak for the wisdom in their methodology, I wasn't there. I can only guess that they had to enter the premise at some point.

If you honestly think there is time to stop and think about firing when you can identify your shooter at point blank range, whether you're a cop or a civilian, you must be nuts.

My statement had nothing to do with who had the right to fire, the cops or the old woman. My statement was in criticism of your preposterous idea that the police had a moment to think about firing when they were being shot at by someone standing a few feet away. Who posting here besides you would deny that?