Woodcrest Processor in the PowerMac?

[Anonymous Freak]

edit: i'm a basterd, seriously i've been makeing nasty posts, dont know what thats about so i'll think of something constructive

to people saying you'll update when the next gen of woodcrest comes out i really wouldn't until intel comes out with cpu's with the equivalent of hypertransport and an on die memory controller, as your not going to get much of a performence increase unless you get more cores.

Well, Intel won't move to an on-die memory controller for a while. They just prefer the chipset method. (It means that you can support newer memory technologies without major redesigns and reimplimentations of the core processor. Look how long it's taking AMD to come out with DDR-2 support...) But, Woodcrest should have a front side bus up to 1.33 GHz, much better than Xeon's current 800 MHz (or even Pentium Extreme Edition's 1.06 GHz.) That's 667 MB/s faster than the quad G5's FSB, and only 133.3 MB/s slower than the dual 2.7. (Although I believe Woodcrest will still use a shared FSB between sockets. Intel won't move to separate socket FSBs for a couple more revs, probably mid '07. But, again, this will be a chipset thing, so existing procs won't require any new setup for it, just a new chipset.)

 

[corywoolf]

No, not like that...

I smell the cube coming back, only this time with an aluminum case like that so it doesn't crack.

(I would do a mockup, but my photoshop skills are limited. Curse you 4.0.1! )

Well they will have to make it larger then the mini, somewhat customizable, and be smaller/different looking then the PowerMac. I am thinking Aluminum case that holds up to 2 hardrives and up to 4 GB RAM. It would come stock with a DL SuperDrive and 2.40 Ghz Conroe 4 MB Cache ($316). One model, priced at $999. BYO Monitor, Keyboard, & Mouse.

 

[DavidCar]

... Although I believe Woodcrest will still use a shared FSB between sockets. ...

Woodcrest/Glidewell systems will have a dual independent bus to the processors, and four banks of fully buffered DIMMs. (see this image) I think the memory throughput is expected to be about 17 GB/sec.

http://www.2cpu.com/review.php?id=109&page=3

The news today is that Woodcrest is expected in June. That would coincide with the expected release in about a month of an HP Dual Woodcrest workstation that was hinted at in my earlier post.

So would Apple be tempted to introduce a Dual Woodcrest workstation before WWDC if it was ready to go?

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31316

 

[danielwsmithee]

So would Apple be tempted to introduce a Dual Woodcrest workstation before WWDC if it was ready to go?

I think Apple would release them new Mac Pro's as soon as they are ready. They seam to want to transition to Intel as fast as possible. The faster they get them out the more pressure it puts on Adobe to get their Pro Apps ready.

 

[DavidCar]

Jun Woodcrest PMac, Jul Conroe iMac, Aug Merom PBook

I think Apple would release them new Mac Pro's as soon as they are ready. They seam to want to transition to Intel as fast as possible. The faster they get them out the more pressure it puts on Adobe to get their Pro Apps ready.

I agree. If Apple follows the Intel schedule noted in the Inquirer, we could see Woodcrest PowerMacs in June, Conroe iMacs in July, and Merom Powerbooks in August. I don't think they would want to see others getting ahead of them in using the latest chips.

One question I have is whether the new PowerMacs (I can't get used to saying Mac Pro) will need a graphics card made for it, or whether it could take any PCIExpress PC graphics card. I expect it would be an advantage to be able to use any card, but I don't understand the low level details.

 

[danielwsmithee]

One question I have is whether the new PowerMacs (I can't get used to saying Mac Pro) will need a graphics card made for it, or whether it could take any PCIExpress PC graphics card. I expect it would be an advantage to be able to use any card, but I don't understand the low level details.

I would assume they will suport a subset of all the available PCI-Express cards. Hardware wise any would work it is just a matter of whether or not there is a driver available. I would bet on X1600,X1800,GeForce 6600, 7800 GT, Quadro FX 4500, and possibly X1900.

 

[DavidCar]

I would assume they will suport a subset of all the available PCI-Express cards. Hardware wise any would work it is just a matter of whether or not there is a driver available. I would bet on X1600,X1800,GeForce 6600, 7800 GT, Quadro FX 4500, and possibly X1900.

Including ATI All in Wonder or professional FireGL cards? I expect such options would be of interest to the right people.

 

[Anonymous Freak]

Woodcrest/Glidewell systems will have a dual independent bus to the processors, and four banks of fully buffered DIMMs. (see this image) I think the memory throughput is expected to be about 17 GB/sec.

That's the one. Thanks for digging up the info!

 

[Lollypop]

I would assume they will suport a subset of all the available PCI-Express cards. Hardware wise any would work it is just a matter of whether or not there is a driver available. I would bet on X1600,X1800,GeForce 6600, 7800 GT, Quadro FX 4500, and possibly X1900.

Going to be a stupid question, but why was it so hard for the initial hacked versions of windows XP to run with the native graphics enabled, the drivers were available? Isnt the versions of the ATI cards on new macs somehow optimized for EFI? If this is the case cant we asume that its more than just drivers?

One thing I have noted about the diagram listed above is that there is only a single 16x PCIe graphics slot, if apple goes with woodecrest, wont they be then hurting their market with the currend dual graphics craze going on?

 

[G5power]

Mini Tower

Well they will have to make it larger then the mini, somewhat customizable, and be smaller/different looking then the PowerMac. I am thinking Aluminum case that holds up to 2 hardrives and up to 4 GB RAM. It would come stock with a DL SuperDrive and 2.40 Ghz Conroe 4 MB Cache ($316). One model, priced at $999. BYO Monitor, Keyboard, & Mouse.

When / If that happens, I am there!! That is the system I want to replace my MDD dual. I was waiting to get a new monitor at the same time & broke down over the weekend and ordered the 2405fpw. So far with just a few minutes to check it out I love it! Can't wait to get a new Apple Mini Tower to go with it.

 

[DavidCar]

Going to be a stupid question, but why was it so hard for the initial hacked versions of windows XP to run with the native graphics enabled, the drivers were available? Isnt the versions of the ATI cards on new macs somehow optimized for EFI? If this is the case cant we asume that its more than just drivers?

One thing I have noted about the diagram listed above is that there is only a single 16x PCIe graphics slot, if apple goes with woodecrest, wont they be then hurting their market with the currend dual graphics craze going on?

Great questions about the graphics cards in my opinion. I have no idea if the firmware on the cards has to be OSX compatible or not, or optimized for EFI.

About the PCIe slots, I note where it says "Configurable set of PCIe ports" and assume that Apple could configure them as necessary.

Also, the FSB in that diagram (which dates back to October) should be 1333 Mhz.

 

[steve_hill4]

anyone who seriously thought apple would use conroe in the powermac is retarded, seriously why would apple go from a quad G5 to a single dual core intel core, it would just look lame.

sseriously who said that conroe was the powermac cpu replacement, whoever did should be added to my retard hall of fame.

woodcrest -> powermac, xserve

conroe -> imac

yonah, merom -> macbook/macbook pro/mac mini

no the imac will not overheat with conroe not too long ago the imac had a 2.1GHz G5 in it the core duo is used at the moment as it's the only decent intel cpu.

I agree with your thinking, only if of course Conroe can be efficiently cooled without generating too much noise and effectively enough to avoid heat escaping. I did however assume it would be single dual core Conroe in the iMac and two of them in the PowerMac replacement.

This is the reason in many ways I am pleased to have a MBP for now and plan on a 20" iMac in 12-18 months. Home should then allow me to use a 64-bit dual core processor with power beyond any current consumer Mac or portable. Portable-wise would still suit me as it would then no longer be a main computer most of the time. If I moved into a career with access to an allowance for tech goodies, a nice 8-core Mac Pro would hopefully fit the budget.

Edit: I would however like Apple to increase their range and bring out a mid-level Tower between the iMac and Mac Pro that had a single Conroe, (with two processor option), and was basically a lower spec Mac Pro. Ideal for those gamers who wanted to switch but considered an iMac too low spec and a Mac Pro too pricey, (not me, just what others always use as arguments).

 

[Mord]

conroe cannot run SMP, an SMP conroe is woodcrest, this needs to be in a public service announcement or something.

 

[steve_hill4]

Well they will have to make it larger then the mini, somewhat customizable, and be smaller/different looking then the PowerMac. I am thinking Aluminum case that holds up to 2 hardrives and up to 4 GB RAM. It would come stock with a DL SuperDrive and 2.40 Ghz Conroe 4 MB Cache ($316). One model, priced at $999. BYO Monitor, Keyboard, & Mouse.

Similar to what I was thinking. Maybe we have even missed something here, Mac Pro will be Woodcrest and PowerMac will go Conroe, (so the PM slips down the order a little and the MP comes in as an even higher end system). Whilst they are at it, bring back an even lower specced, cheaper Mac Mini and a lower spec iMac, (perhaps as the others go Conroe, keep one with a lower speed Yonah which should by then be cheaper too). That gives a Mac for pretty much every need and makes it hard for any person to complain about them being expensive and/or underpowered.

I know Apple like to keep their range slimmed down, but they need to do something like this to increase market share really.

 

[Mord]

apple is not going to keep the powermac it's mac pro only. even if they did a sub pro midrange headless mac it wouldent be called the powermac.

 

[electronboy]

Fantastic! Maybe they will include expensive memory (FB-DIMM) that can't even be fully utilized by the limited architecture. WICKED!

 

[steve_hill4]

apple is not going to keep the powermac it's mac pro only. even if they did a sub pro midrange headless mac it wouldent be called the powermac.

I know, (saying they are ditching the word Power), but let us cling to some hope.

 

[Mord]

such hope is futile.


as is resistence.

 

[dpaanlka]

Eight cores?? How expensive is that going to be?!! :-O

The Quad G5 costs enough as it is but an eight core machine, Intel or not will probably clock in at 1-2k extra on the quad's price. That's just getting ridiculous!!

I can think of computers much more expensive than that.

Go to http://www.sun.com/

 

[Anonymous Freak]

Going to be a stupid question, but why was it so hard for the initial hacked versions of windows XP to run with the native graphics enabled, the drivers were available? Isnt the versions of the ATI cards on new macs somehow optimized for EFI? If this is the case cant we asume that its more than just drivers?

Yes, it is more than just drivers. The two big hurdles for getting XP on an Intel Mac were:
1. Intel Macs use the new EFI instead of BIOS. They needed a 'Compatibility Support Module' to make EFI pretend it is BIOS. That is the big thing the onmac.net group did. (And what Apple released.)
2. Because Intel Macs use EFI exclusively, their video chip also contains the EFI firmware instead of a 'VGA BIOS'. The onmac group hacked together a basic VGA BIOS 'emulator' that enables only the most basic video support. ATI's drivers require a VGA BIOS on the card, and don't support direct EFI parts. Not sure how Apple did it. Since it doesn't require hacking the Windows install, I'm guessing that the firmware update added a VGA BIOS.

One thing I have noted about the diagram listed above is that there is only a single 16x PCIe graphics slot, if apple goes with woodecrest, wont they be then hurting their market with the currend dual graphics craze going on?

The chipset only has 16 lanes in the Northbridge, but you can add as many as you want on the Southbridge (or tacked onto the NB-SB link.)

 

[pilotError]

Inforworld Article - Intel plots path to 32-nanometer chips

Thought someone might be interested...

Intel claims that its new 65-nm, dual-core chips are three times more power efficient than their 90-nm, single core predecessors.

They are also more powerful. The new Conroe chip for desktops will be 40 percent faster than the Pentium D960, the new Merom chip for mobile PCs will be 20 percent faster than the Core Duo T2600, and the new Woodcrest chip for servers will be 80 percent faster than the Xeon 2.8 GHz.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/06/04/28/77871_HNintel32nm_1.html