Words of wisdom -- think twice before choosing your SSD

How are you so fluent in English? Are you a native speaker? I am amazed.

LOL :eek: *blush*, but I'm not German (and I'm not a native English speaker either). I just watched a lot of Cartoon Network when I was a kid.

The SATA controller in the new mbp is faster than the one in the old model.
Anandtech has reported about this.

That's good news, could you please post the link ?
 
from my experience, OCZ pushes out a lot of SSDs that I consider still in the experimental stage. I had a lot of problems with them and was tired of having to do so many firmware flashes.
 
If you read my first post carefully, this is exactly why I was so induced to buy the OCZ V LE. I even posted the same Anandtech link as you. But, and its a big but, dreams got shattered when I read the OCZ forum posts and the mod's replies.

The test results for the new MacBook Pro with SSD shown at barefeats.com aren't theory, they are fact. The OCZ rep (as you quoted him) is FLAT OUT WRONG. And barefeats.com is an incredibly well-respected site. Robert has been specializing in Mac speed testing for more than two decades. I'd trust Robert's results over just about any other site any day of the week.

You can believe whatever you want to believe. But I'm telling you, reaching sequential read/write speeds of 250MB/s in one of the new MacBook Pros is actual FACT using even 1-year old SSD technology.

Mark
 
I like to live on the edge and got the Crucial C300.
Been fine so far. Stellar performance in Xbench. ;)

Robert (barefeats) has told me that XBench isn't the best tool to use to test SSD speed. He recommends QuickBench 4.

Mark
 
The test results for the new MacBook Pro with SSD show at barefeats.com aren't theory, they are fact. The OCZ rep (as you quoted him) is FLAT OUT WRONG. And barefeats.com is an incredibly well-respected site. Robert has been specializing in Mac speed testing for more than two decades. I'd trust Robert's results over just about any other sites any day of the week.

You can believe whatever you want to believe. But I'm telling you, reaching sequential read/write speeds of 250MB/s in one of the new MacBook Pros is actual FACT using even 1-year old SSD technology.

Mark

Huh ? He was replying to Mac users having really low drive speeds with the current firmware. How can technical support be wrong ? Even if he is wrong, it still doesn't change the fact that people on Macs were complaining about their performance with the Vertex LE. Who guarantees me that I won't be one of them ? I'm happy to know about the improved SATA speeds on the new MBP though.
 
That is the funniest statement I've read today! You must be pretty new to computer hardware and technical support departments. :)

Mark

I know you like your OCZ SSD but I don't need funny words to go nuts over it. Like I said, true or not, he was replying to many people on Macs having serious speed problems on the Vertex LE drives. What he says doesn't change the fact that people actually are having problems. That's all I care about. Also, the V LE doesn't have Garbage Collection and OCZ doesn't mention this on their PDF brochure.

No I'm not new to computers, I'm old enough to be your father when it comes to hardware. But there's no company to my knowledge that would publicly tell 'lies' about their own products to make them sell less. The very notion itself is really idiotic.

One more time. I'm not saying OCZ drives are bad. I've never tried them so I'm no one to judge. However, given these facts, I'd rather spend my hard earned money on something that's proven and widely used as a reference. We're not talking about buying match-sticks or bubble-gum. Its the same thing what Anand has to say as well. Is Anand "flat out wrong" too ? :)
 
Huh ? He was replying to Mac users having really low drive speeds with the current firmware. How can technical support be wrong?

Very easily.

In particular, OCZ technical support saying "oh, that's not a problem with our problem, that's a problem with Macs", is clearly talking about something he doesn't necessarily have any way to know.

How would the OCZ rep know about Apple reducing drive performance?

For that matter, given that other drives run MUCH faster on the Mac, how is that Apple's fault?

I don't see any evidence that he'd be qualified to know about the issue, let alone that he's right about it.
 
Very easily.

In particular, OCZ technical support saying "oh, that's not a problem with our problem, that's a problem with Macs", is clearly talking about something he doesn't necessarily have any way to know.

How would the OCZ rep know about Apple reducing drive performance?

For that matter, given that other drives run MUCH faster on the Mac, how is that Apple's fault?

I don't see any evidence that he'd be qualified to know about the issue, let alone that he's right about it.

He probably has no idea what he's talking about. In my 5 months as a Vertex owner, any time a Mac-specific issue cropped up we always got "go talk to Apple about it" in their forums.
 
In general, I do not advise anyone to purchase a Vertex LE. I have heard from one of our suppliers that they are expecting the Vertex 2 this month still, which will give almost the same performance, but which is expected to be cheaper.
 
I know you like your OCZ SSD but I don't need funny words to go nuts over it. Like I said, true or not, he was replying to many people on Macs having serious speed problems on the Vertex LE drives. What he says doesn't change the fact that people actually are having problems. That's all I care about. Also, the V LE doesn't have Garbage Collection and OCZ doesn't mention this on their PDF brochure.

No I'm not new to computers, I'm old enough to be your father when it comes to hardware. But there's no company to my knowledge that would publicly tell 'lies' about their own products to make them sell less. The very notion itself is really idiotic.

One more time. I'm not saying OCZ drives are bad. I've never tried them so I'm no one to judge. However, given these facts, I'd rather spend my hard earned money on something that's proven and widely used as a reference. We're not talking about buying match-sticks or bubble-gum. Its the same thing what Anand has to say as well. Is Anand "flat out wrong" too ? :)

Again, believe what you want to believe. I've spent enough time in the OCZ forums to know that their technical support folks don't know the answer to every question and frequently post inaccurate information. And believing "the collective" is even more ridiculous. If you believed "the collective" here in this forum, you wouldn't buy a MacBook Pro because the screen would be so yellow it would look like urine. :)

When I got my Vertex last year, according to "the collective" over on OCZ forum, I would have sleep issues galore and it would crash frequently. A year later, nothing could be farther from the truth. ZERO sleep issues and only a single hiccup that was under the original firmware and was cured with a firmware update. Yet, there are still idiots out there running the 1-year old firmware going around spewing how they have nothing but problems.

The Intel is not a bad choice. But your reason for switching is based upon a comment by an OCZ rep that led you to believe you'd never achieve 250MB/s performance in your new MacBook Pro. THAT IS WRONG!

Mark
 
Again, believe what you want to believe. I've spent enough time in the OCZ forums to know that their technical support folks don't know the answer to every question and frequently post inaccurate information. And believing "the collective" is even more ridiculous. If you believed "the collective" here in this forum, you wouldn't buy a MacBook Pro because the screen would be so yellow it would look like urine. :)

When I got my Vertex last year, according to "the collective" over on OCZ forum, I would have sleep issues galore and it would crash frequently. A year later, nothing could be farther from the truth. ZERO sleep issues and only a single hiccup that was under the original firmware and was cured with a firmware update. Yet, there are still idiots out there running the 1-year old firmware going around spewing how they have nothing but problems.

The Intel is not a bad choice. But your reason for switching is based upon a comment by an OCZ rep that led you to believe you'd never achieve 250MB/s performance in your new MacBook Pro. THAT IS WRONG!

Mark

The "collective" doesn't matter ? :eek: Now you're starting to sound downright silly ! So there's no need for forums ? No need for people posting their experiences, problems or complaints ? Customers who are sharing their issues know nothing ? Everyone is lying ? Everyone is flat out wrong ? Its just a big conspiracy right ? Just because you own an OCZ SSD yourself ? That's the most narrow-minded crap I've heard in a long time. You're in denial. You just won't let it be that something you own can give trouble to other people.

Since you're opining that OCZ customer support are all lying donkeys, let's put it this way: I would not recommend anyone to buy the products of a company whose tech support doesn't even know their own product. When something does go wrong with a purchase, they won't be able to provide any reasonable service.

People complain about yellow screen because they do have yellow screens. They have spent tons of money on what they have bought and won't settle for anything less than what they expect. When the issue did plague Apple's iMacs, Apple did eventually get it fixed, offered refunds and complimentary rebates to frustrated customers. You, on the other hand, are saying complaining customers are a bunch of ignorant monkeys and whatever issues they have hardly make sense.

Amazing !
 
What about the C300? Is it still having firmware problems like I've found on the forums? :confused:

It uses the SandForce controller too. Apparently there are some kinks they are still working on. Anand talked about the drives developing extremely high write latencies (almost / more than 1 second). You can read about it here (scroll down to the table in the middle of the page).
 
I agree i would only go with Intel right now. Unless Seagate/WD or Hitachi come out with their SSD's then that would be great.
 
The test results for the new MacBook Pro with SSD shown at barefeats.com aren't theory, they are fact. The OCZ rep (as you quoted him) is FLAT OUT WRONG.
He's not as there are a lot of people backing up the numbers they have. I think there might be some differences in benchmarking the ssd. The Sandforce controller is not so easy to benchmark due to the way it works. The Sandforce controller depends heavily on data compression unlike other ssd's.

And barefeats.com is an incredibly well-respected site. Robert has been specializing in Mac speed testing for more than two decades. I'd trust Robert's results over just about any other site any day of the week.
Yes and they can get it wrong as well. Using benchmarks is one thing but they are only really useful when you do them all on the same system to make sure there aren't any other things that could influence the benchmark. Letting users benchmark their own machines and turning those results in a graph makes the graph completely useless. I wouldn't trust results just because someone has some reputation, I'd still look at what they are and what they are trying to say. I like to do my own thinking and so should a lot of other people. Check out different reviews and bechmarks and try to interpret what they're about and what they're trying to say. Don't solely rely on one person like OCZ, Barefeats, some guy on some forum or whoever/whatever.

You can believe whatever you want to believe. But I'm telling you, reaching sequential read/write speeds of 250MB/s in one of the new MacBook Pros is actual FACT using even 1-year old SSD technology.
But not in every other MacBook Pro. There are quite a lot of people who are benchmarking on old MBP's, not the new ones. The topic on the OCZ forum started on 19-1-2010, way before the introduction of the new MBP's! There have also been quite some problems regarding sata in MBP's, Apple even pushed out a new EFI so people could use the 3 Gb/s speed instead of the 1.5 Gb/s it had. There have been numerous discussions about this in numerous different forums like macrumors and Apple Discussions. I.o.w. it's also a fact that Apple has had quite a lot of sata speed problems in the past. And they weren't the only ones (a lot of people have experienced strange problems because ssd's can be too fast for the sata controller which overheats which in turn causes strange problems).

I think stating that either OCZ or Barefeats are flat out wrong is actually flat out wrong. They have simply different results so you need to ask the question "why?" instead of pointing your finger at someone. Apart from the fact that those sequential speeds are not that important because you're using it in a desktop (well, a notebook). It's the random speeds that matter the most in that case and they don't exceed the sata 1.5 Gb/s speeds yet. Whether you're getting 200 or 250 MB/s does not really matter. Some people tend to forget that.

Very easily.

In particular, OCZ technical support saying "oh, that's not a problem with our problem, that's a problem with Macs", is clearly talking about something he doesn't necessarily have any way to know.

How would the OCZ rep know about Apple reducing drive performance?
Because Apple screws up the EFI and doesn't fix it. The early 2008 MBP has the hardware for the 3 Gb/s sata speed but it is stuck at 1.5 Gb/s. All the other notebooks with the same chipset can do 3 Gb/s without any problems but the early 2008 MBP can't. They've also got some problems with newer MBP's and sata as we've seen. I think they're had this in the back of their minds when they were pointing at the Macs. OCZ is in fact not the only one doing that. A lot of hardware manufacturers have got some issues with Macs. It might not be true in this case but I can see why they'd say something like that.

Mind you, any ssd with a Sandforce controller should be handled as if it were beta software. It's a completely new technology and we have no idea what it does in reality. It may also come with a lot of problems regarding speed and stability which most likely will get fixed in future firmware updates. In fact, this also applies to other ssd brands because the ssd market is relatively new.
 
are the ssd's offered with the macbook pro (under configuration) good? worth the money?

The 512GB model is. It may not be the fastest but it's the cheapest especially with a discount and will be under the famous Mac warranty and customer care and is guaranteed to work, obviously.
It's what I will get, whilst there are some good stores in the UK, all the drives cost more, in fact the OCZ and Kingston and a Corsair are the only other 512GB SSDs I can find. And they have no guarantee to work correctly do they?

Not worth the hassle in my mind.
You also won't be able to extend the warranty on an aftermarket SSD to 3 years. Not easily anyway.
 
But not in every other MacBook Pro. There are quite a lot of people who are benchmarking on old MBP's, not the new ones. The topic on the OCZ forum started on 19-1-2010, way before the introduction of the new MBP's! There have also been quite some problems regarding sata in MBP's, Apple even pushed out a new EFI so people could use the 3 Gb/s speed instead of the 1.5 Gb/s it had. There have been numerous discussions about this in numerous different forums like macrumors and Apple Discussions. I.o.w. it's also a fact that Apple has had quite a lot of sata speed problems in the past. And they weren't the only ones (a lot of people have experienced strange problems because ssd's can be too fast for the sata controller which overheats which in turn causes strange problems).

I think stating that either OCZ or Barefeats are flat out wrong is actually flat out wrong. They have simply different results so you need to ask the question "why?" instead of pointing your finger at someone. Apart from the fact that those sequential speeds are not that important because you're using it in a desktop (well, a notebook). It's the random speeds that matter the most in that case and they don't exceed the sata 1.5 Gb/s speeds yet. Whether you're getting 200 or 250 MB/s does not really matter. Some people tend to forget that.


Because Apple screws up the EFI and doesn't fix it. The early 2008 MBP has the hardware for the 3 Gb/s sata speed but it is stuck at 1.5 Gb/s. All the other notebooks with the same chipset can do 3 Gb/s without any problems but the early 2008 MBP can't. They've also got some problems with newer MBP's and sata as we've seen. I think they're had this in the back of their minds when they were pointing at the Macs. OCZ is in fact not the only one doing that. A lot of hardware manufacturers have got some issues with Macs. It might not be true in this case but I can see why they'd say something like that.

It's actually the mid 2009 unibody refresh that has the "broken" Sata 3gbps controller/wires. I have one and had to "downgrade" from 1.7 to 1.6 firmware to Sata 1.5gbps speeds so my Intel G2 ssd can work correctly without constant beachballs. The first gen unibody (2008) were actually pretty much problem free. And the Intel G2 is constrained by Sata 1.5 speeds. Apple has never fixed this problem and their answer is "we don't support 3rd party SSD's" BS. People have tried everything including making homemade sata wires (the 2009 refresh sata wires are much thinner than the 2008 unibody's leaving some to try using thicker cables which did fix a few, but not all, btw mine didn't improve) I'm very happy that Apple went to the much more reliable Intel Sata controller on the new 15/17 MBp's
 
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