Worry about the MAC system

feyn-man

macrumors regular
Original poster
Oct 24, 2007
234
0
Apple has sold so many copies of leopard. And also so many people transfer to MAC from windows.
That make me to worry about that the virus on MacOS will be more and more. We will never be safe!!!
 

l33r0y

macrumors 6502
Aug 7, 2007
288
0
Apple has sold so many copies of leopard. And also so many people transfer to MAC from windows.
That make me to worry about that the virus on MacOS will be more and more. We will never be safe!!!
  1. It's 'Mac' or 'Macintosh', not MAC :)
  2. OS X is based on Unix, which is *the* most secure operating system. It won't get less secure when more people use it.
 
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feyn-man

macrumors regular
Original poster
Oct 24, 2007
234
0
I run Windows and I'm not worried about viruses. :p
But there is no antivirus software on MAC. And that is exact one of the reasons lots of people choose a MAC.


  1. OS X is based on Unix, which is *the* most secure operating system. It won't get less secure when more people use it.
I don't think so. securty is just because that it's not the target of attack.
 
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Eidorian

macrumors Penryn
Mar 23, 2005
29,085
288
Indianapolis
But there is no antivirus software on MAC. And that is exact one of the reasons lots of people choose a MAC.
I can name off at least 4 right now.

1. McAfee VirusScan (Now 8.6 for Leopard)
2. Norton
3. Intego X4
4. ClamAV

Media Access Control?

I don't think so. securty is just because that it's not the target of attack.
Maybe you shouldn't download everything you see and run as an administrator. :p
 
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l33r0y

macrumors 6502
Aug 7, 2007
288
0
I don't think so. securty is just because that it's not the target of attack.
Nonsense. How many businesses use a unix based operating system for their servers. Answer? The vast majority. Windows is a target for viruses, malware etc. because it is an EASY target.
 
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feyn-man

macrumors regular
Original poster
Oct 24, 2007
234
0
Nonsense. How many businesses use a unix based operating system for their servers. Answer? The vast majority. Windows is a target for viruses, malware etc. because it is an EASY target.
Ok. Maybe you are right. Maybe I was not expressing myself well.
What I mean is:
When a virus producer is working, maybe just for fun. He just choose a system most popular in personal user before. But now, maybe a virus on macOS will be a more funny challenge.
 
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CashGap

macrumors 6502
Sep 15, 2007
411
0
Music City, USA
Let's see... what is Apple's market share... call it 10%.

How many viruses (Viri?) are out there... 1 million?

So... there should be 100,000 viruses for Mac, if "popularity" is what draws virus writers.

Instead there are... let me see... carry the seven... four gozinta twelve... roughly...

None.

So even if a doubling of Mac market share results in a quadrupling of Mac viruses, we should be OK.
 
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TheStu

macrumors 65816
Aug 20, 2006
1,245
0
Carlisle, PA
Ok. Maybe you are right. Maybe I was not expressing myself well.
What I mean is:
When a virus producer is working, maybe just for fun. He just choose a system most popular in personal user before. But now, maybe a virus on macOS will be a more funny challenge.
Apple 'prides' itself on the image that their system is indestructible, that they cannot get viruses, trojans, all that jazz. Don't you think that if you were a virus writer, you would want to try your damndest to infect Macs? It would be the Everest of the virus world. Screw infecting every Windows box under the sun, that has been done. Get half, heck, an eighth of the Mac boxes and you have guaranteed notoriety.

The security from obscurity argument is old, and invalid.
 
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feyn-man

macrumors regular
Original poster
Oct 24, 2007
234
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Instead there are... let me see... carry the seven... four gozinta twelve... roughly...

None.

So even if a doubling of Mac market share results in a quadrupling of Mac viruses, we should be OK.
Sorry, I totally don't understand. Could you explain it in detail?
 
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gauchogolfer

macrumors 603
Jan 28, 2005
5,555
5
American Riviera
Sorry, I totally don't understand. Could you explain it in detail?
There were viruses written for Macs back in the days of OS 8 and OS 9, when market share was even smaller than it is now. With OS X and its UNIX underpinnings, even with a larger market share there have been no viruses in the wild.
 
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JimmyDThing

macrumors regular
Aug 23, 2007
208
0
Let's see... what is Apple's market share... call it 10%.

How many viruses (Viri?) are out there... 1 million?

So... there should be 100,000 viruses for Mac, if "popularity" is what draws virus writers.

Instead there are... let me see... carry the seven... four gozinta twelve... roughly...

None.

So even if a doubling of Mac market share results in a quadrupling of Mac viruses, we should be OK.
That's flawed logic. I understand what you're getting at, but the argument is that there's no point going after MacOS when Windows is the vast majority. 10% is nowhere near a majority, so 0 people who want to attack an OS that is not the vast majority times however many virus creators out there is still 0.

And for those of you saying there's no worry for Mac's, you are incorrect. There is a Trojan out right now that completely takes control of your Mac.

What you don't have to worry about on Mac is something seeping in without you having done anything. The Trojan I spoke of above requires you to install what claims to be a codec. There are almost none of these, but they DO exist. But as long as you're only installing things when you know what they are, you are safe. And even if you install things when you're not sure what it is... the odds are you are still safe. It's analogous to being struck by lightning... there are so few out there, that you're really not at much risk... yet.

I think the point of the author of this thread is, what if Mac becomes even more popular? With the failure of Vista, this is somewhat of a distant possibility. Then Mac becomes a target... no argument that MacOS is far more secure than Windows... but when the incentive is there, trust me, virus's will occur more frequently.
 
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Much Ado

macrumors 68000
Sep 7, 2006
1,533
1
UK
No nuclear bunkers have ever been burgled.

...and i'd guess that's NOT because there aren't many of them.
 
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DeaconGraves

macrumors 65816
Apr 25, 2007
1,291
0
Dallas, TX
If you're that worried about viruses on a mac, then get some anti-virus software. Problem solved.

The logic that people would try to write viruses for OS X as a challenge makes sense, but those who are really trying to exploit people's systems (id theft, etc.) probably aren't caring about the challenge and more about the quick buck. Windows is still the easier target and the more used OS.

Its the Ocean's 11 theory: breaking into a casino vault has its satisfaction (and much more exciting), but if it was really about the money they probably would have just robbed a jewelry store.
 
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feyn-man

macrumors regular
Original poster
Oct 24, 2007
234
0
That's flawed logic. I understand what you're getting at, but the argument is that there's no point going after MacOS when Windows is the vast majority. 10% is nowhere near a majority, so 0 people who want to attack an OS that is not the vast majority times however many virus creators out there is still 0.

And for those of you saying there's no worry for Mac's, you are incorrect. There is a Trojan out right now that completely takes control of your Mac.

What you don't have to worry about on Mac is something seeping in without you having done anything. The Trojan I spoke of above requires you to install what claims to be a codec. There are almost none of these, but they DO exist. But as long as you're only installing things when you know what they are, you are safe. And even if you install things when you're not sure what it is... the odds are you are still safe. It's analogous to being struck by lightning... there are so few out there, that you're really not at much risk... yet.

I think the point of the author of this thread is, what if Mac becomes even more popular? With the failure of Vista, this is somewhat of a distant possibility. Then Mac becomes a target... no argument that MacOS is far more secure than Windows... but when the incentive is there, trust me, virus's will occur more frequently.
just hit the spot.
 
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l33r0y

macrumors 6502
Aug 7, 2007
288
0
Let's see... what is Apple's market share... call it 10%.

How many viruses (Viri?) are out there... 1 million?

So... there should be 100,000 viruses for Mac, if "popularity" is what draws virus writers.

Instead there are... let me see... carry the seven... four gozinta twelve... roughly...

None.
LOL ;)
 
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Virgil-TB2

macrumors 65816
Aug 3, 2007
1,143
1
That's flawed logic. I understand what you're getting at, but the argument is that there's no point going after MacOS when Windows is the vast majority. 10% is nowhere near a majority, so 0 people who want to attack an OS that is not the vast majority times however many virus creators out there is still 0. ... And for those of you saying there's no worry for Mac's, you are incorrect. There is a Trojan out right now that completely takes control of your Mac. ...
Sorry Jimmy but I think you are just wrong here. :)

The "security by obscurity" argument is that the number of virii for an OS is relative to the exposure of the OS, and desirability of the attack in terms of credit and reward.

The relative exposure of an OS is it's market share, pure and simple. The poster you were replying to gave an iron-clad argument refuting your position. In terms of desirability, there are many security groups and high end businesses that use Macs that have tons of IP worth stealing. The users of Mac systems are also more likely to be wealthier folks whose personal information would be more valuable than the average Windows user. In terms of "cred," making a working virus for OS-X that actually did something dangerous would be the coup of the century!

Lastly, a Trojan is not a virus and while you did not claim it was, shame on you for making it seem like they are the same thing. Nothing anywhere, on any OS can stop you from installing a Trojan other than your self.
 
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JimmyDThing

macrumors regular
Aug 23, 2007
208
0
Sorry Jimmy but I think you are just wrong here. :)

The "security by obscurity" argument is that the number of virii for an OS is relative to the exposure of the OS, and desirability of the attack in terms of credit and reward.

The relative exposure of an OS is it's market share, pure and simple. The poster you were replying to gave an iron-clad argument refuting your position. In terms of desirability, there are many security groups and high end businesses that use Macs that have tons of IP worth stealing. The users of Mac systems are also more likely to be wealthier folks whose personal information would be more valuable than the average Windows user. In terms of "cred," making a working virus for OS-X that actually did something dangerous would be the coup of the century!

Lastly, a Trojan is not a virus and while you did not claim it was, shame on you for making it seem like they are the same thing. Nothing anywhere, on any OS can stop you from installing a Trojan other than your self.

First... my apologies for not making clear that Trojan's are not virii... I thought that was common knowledge.

Second... let me respond to your "security by obscurity" claims. Yes... security groups and high end businesses use Mac's... but they, by nature, will be more secure and going after a non-majority, more secure group is just nonsense. Yes... many wealthier people use Macs... but then again Wealthier people tend to be less novice in terms of computer use.

And lastly, let me make clear that I do not believe OS-X to have any security issues at this point in time; I believe it to be vastly superior to Windows when it comes to security especially. I'm just saying that you cannot throw out the "security by obscurity" argument completely. And that the argument that 10% market share means 10% of the virii. No... that's not how it works. The OS with the vast majority of users (and thusly the vast majority of novice users) is the only OS really worth going after.

The truth is... you shouldn't have THAT big an issue with virii on a Windows PC... it's not that hard to avoid them if you know how to use a computer and the internet properly. And furthermore, as OS-X is much more secure, you REALLY shouldn't have to worry about security because not only is it more secure, but there isn't anything out there. I'm simply saying that the possibility for the existence of OS-X targeted virii is possible if more and more people keep switching to Mac. Will any ever exist that actually do something? I have no idea... I don't write or get virii, nor do I ever plan on doing either. But to act as though you know for a fact that OS-X is the end-all-be-all of OS security is naive.
 
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gauchogolfer

macrumors 603
Jan 28, 2005
5,555
5
American Riviera
And that the argument that 10% market share means 10% of the virii. No... that's not how it works. The OS with the vast majority of users (and thusly the vast majority of novice users) is the only OS really worth going after.
....
But to act as though you know for a fact that OS-X is the end-all-be-all of OS security is naive.
That's not what anyone here has said.
Another example for you, for a huge installed base not having virus problems like Windows, is UNIX-based servers. There are many Apache webservers out there, but how many viruses targeted for those have you seen? In fact, Apache servers are the most common webservers in existence, more than Microsoft IIS servers. Yet, they get compromised much less frequently.
 
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feyn-man

macrumors regular
Original poster
Oct 24, 2007
234
0
That's not what anyone here has said.
Another example for you, for a huge installed base not having virus problems like Windows, is UNIX-based servers. There are many Apache webservers out there, but how many viruses targeted for those have you seen? In fact, Apache servers are the most common webservers in existence, more than Microsoft IIS servers. Yet, they get compromised much less frequently.
I think good habits will be more helpful for security. but more and more windows user are switching to MAC, and also their habits in using computer. For example: use administrator login every time, install whatever they found from internet, and so on. All that, of cause, give much more chance to spread for virus.
 
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