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Jovian9

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Feb 19, 2003
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The title says it all. I'm a fan of both the Steelers and the Seahawks. Bettis has been a favorite player of mine for years and Holmgren is my favorite coach in the league.....so no bias here. I wanted a good game. Which it would have been had the officials not made such obvious bad calls against the Seahawks over and over again. 2 touchdowns were taken away from Seattle b/c of officials putting themselves in control of the outcome instead of the players. After the Colts game all we heard from Porter was the officials "cheated" trying to get the Colts to win the game.......well, do you think he'll make those comments again but state that it was for his team this time. I am a big fan of the NFL but this game has left an awful taste in my mouth....so much so that I'm going to try to not watch any NFL games next year. It will be hard, but after how horribly one sided the officiating was in this game, I might be able to do it.

Congrats Steelers, Bettis, and Cowher! I am glad they got one, just not in the way that it happened.
 
Jovian9 said:
The title says it all. .

hmmm... I didn't think it was THAT bad. The only call I don't get is the offensive pass interference call in the end-zone against the 'hawks. The Ben R TD was too close to call so I think the refs made the right decision there. The holding calls against the 'hawks that brought back a couple of big plays seemed justified to me..

I'll admit that I am a steelers fan though, so take that for what it's worth...
 
I agree entirely. Been saying this all during the game and all since.

The first steelers "touchdown" was clearly not. Ben didn't break the plane... it was close, but absolutely undisputable.

The "holding" call on the seahawks pass to the one... unacceptable. There was no holding... not even close on this one. That turned an almost certain 'hawks TD in to an interception.

Which brings us to the next bad call. The hit hasselbeck put on the steeler (forget who), and then gets called for a "low block" on the other steeler.

And then the off-sides on the steelers that resulted in a sack of hasselbeck.

The whole thing was a ****ing joke. The officiating this post season in general has been appalling, but it's a real shame to have the superbowl decided by bad calls. That Joey Porter (btw - just shut up Porter. Seriously -- Shut. Up.) rant after the colts game does indeed reek of irony now. There's no way the officials were letting "the bus" leave detriot without his title, I guess.

What really gets me is that in time, people will forget this and act like the steelers legitimately won that game. :rolleyes: oh, and let me say that I'm not a 'hawks fan, and had no particular interest in this game except that i'm a football fan in general. And from that perspective, this was a disgusting display of officiating.
 
Abstract said:
I say we banish the NFL forever and watch us some hockey, whaddaya say!!

Yey.... :D only because my home town has probably the best ice hockey team in the country. :D

I used to watch american football back in the '80's as it used to get coverage on Channel 4 on Sunday evenings... complete with 'Two Tribes' soundtrack and all :D but the lack of free flowing action, and far too much time stood around doing sweet F.A. killed my interest in it. I can appreciate why it's so popular though.
 
Frosting on a terribly officiated playoffs.

The NFL seemed to badly want the Patriots out, the Colts in and, when it finally came down to it, a Steelers win.

Let's hope the NFL isn't going the way of the NBA (which is about as rigged as wrestling).
 
I'm a fan of neither team, but I also agree 100% that the Seahawks had the game taken away from them by the officials. It's pretty sickening when you think about it.

In the end, the only real winners are the corporate sponsors, the networks, and the National Football League, who once again successfully turned a sporting event into a commercialized orgy.

To hell with the football.
 
I am a fan of neither team.
I thought it was a well officiated game.
The offensive pass interference on Darrell Jackson was valid because
he created separation by pushing off the defender. In the end, he could have avoided the penalty by not touching the defender.

Ben Roeschlisberger's touchdown was hard to tell from the replay. Leaving it as called on the field was the right choice.

Remember the Seahawks would have still been in the game if they hadn't missed 2 fieldgoals.
 
skubish said:
I am a fan of neither team.
I thought it was a well officiated game.
The offensive pass interference on Darrell Jackson was valid because
he created separation by pushing off the defender. In the end, he could have avoided the penalty by not touching the defender.

If you look closely, he began his scramble after he finished the route. Look at the defender this time. Note how HE pushed off at exactly the same instant. AND, there was no obvious seperation as the "pushoff" was all but devoid of any physical contact. Bad call.
 
well it was pretty obvious sometimes... i'm far from being a american football fan or something (i just watch superbowls) but the steelers first touchdown didn't cross the line for me...
through the whole game the referees seemed to be the center of the game which they shouldn't

that aside the game itself felt like i was watching the austrian football league (the other football) which is hardly a seal of excellence
 
Abstract said:
I can't. NFL isn't nearly as entertaining as AFL in Australia. There's really no competition, really --- NFL is boring in comparison.

Are you one of the Australians who was hanging out at my dad's house?
 
QCassidy352 said:
What really gets me is that in time, people will forget this and act like the steelers legitimately won that game.

heck I'll do it right now. the steelers won the game fair and square.

1) I don't think it was offensive pass intereference on Jackson most because his arm was NEARLY fully extended so it would be hard to "push off". I can see what the officials saw, and why they called it, it wouldn't have been my call but I see it.

2) You have to look at the big ben rushing touchdown with the right perspective according to the NFL rules, since it was ruled a touchdown on the field, was there conclusive evidence to prove that it wasn't a touchdown? NO. I"m not sure he got there either personally, but the process was properly followed.



This whole thing about the refs giving the steelers giving them the game is BS. Lets take that big ben rushing TD off the board, fine. The Randel EL HUGE PASS, and the Willie Parker HUGE RUN, give the steelers 14 ... 14-10 still wins the game. Mike Holmgren didn't call a great game, especially in the fourth quarter.
 
Let's not forget about this moment....in the 2nd half when Seattle is driving to take the lead.....
quoted from ESPN analyst Sean Salisbury at this link:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs05/news/story?id=2320619

Turning point:
This game turned on four nonsequential plays. The first was when Hasselbeck completed a pass to the 2-yard line only to see it overturned by a phantom holding call that never should've been called. Then Hasselbeck threw a terrible interception that killed the momentum of this team. To add insult to injury, he was flagged on another bogus call during the runback when he was simply trying to make a tackle. Finally, the backbreaker of this sequence was the Antwaan Randle El touchdown pass to Ward on a trick play that completely fooled the Seahawks' secondary.
ESPN Analyst Sean Salisbury

The drive that could have resulted in a Seattle touchdown and lead was stalled by an awful holding call. This pushed Seattle back instead of being on the Steelers 2 yard line. This forced Seattle into passing mode which resulted in an interception. The officials then made an awful call against Hasselbeck when he tackled the guy who intercepted his pass. The call they made claimed he blocked someone below the knees (which is illegal to do to anyone but the guy with the ball.....which is exactly the person he hit....so it was legal). This put 15 yards on the end of the interception which put the Steelers in the middle of the field. If you had listened to John Madden and Al Michaels all evening they kept saying the Steelers loved trick plays but only when they were in the middle of the field. The officials gave the Steelers the perfect opportunity to try the Randle El pass coming off of a saved touchdown and an interception. They had nothing to lose with that play being in the middle of the field with the lead.
Just another example of the officials deciding how the game went instead of the players.
 
QCassidy352 said:
The first steelers "touchdown" was clearly not. Ben didn't break the plane... it was close, but absolutely undisputable.
No friggin way. Saw the game in HD, with a DVR. Watched it multiple times. He clearly broke the plane. All you have to cross is the first part of the goal line - the edge of the white.
QCassidy352 said:
The "holding" call on the seahawks pass to the one... unacceptable. There was no holding... not even close on this one.
Oh there was certainly a hold there. The only thing that prevented a sack was the O-lineman hooking his arm up under the defender. The only argument you could make was that there's holds on every play, did that one have to be called. But that one DID have to be called, because it would've been a sack without the hold.
QCassidy352 said:
Which brings us to the next bad call. The hit hasselbeck put on the steeler (forget who), and then gets called for a "low block" on the other steeler.
This has more to do with a weird NFL rule than anything. It's been called on the Steelers in the past. If you block one player with a low dive like that, even if it's an attempt to tackle the ball-carrier, it's a penalty.

I notice that you take exception with the officiating but fail to comment on the play that led to the only Seahawks touchdown. There was a Seahawks player who blocked Roethlisberger in the back on the interception return. If that block is called, ball is around midfield and, I would argue, Seattle never gets that touchdown (Probably just another missed field goal.)

Much as you might want to talk about the officiating, the game was decided on the field. You can't blame the officials for the longest run in Superbowl history, or for the pass off the reverse. And even if Ben had been stopped on the goal line (which he wasn't), they would've gone for it on the next play and Bettis would be in for the touchdown. And the officials didn't cause the woefully inept management of the clock by the Seahawks, or the two touchdown passes out of bounds.

The Steelers had some pretty bad calls go against them in the playoffs - but the difference was, they still managed to win.
 
Kwyjibo said:
1) I don't think it was offensive pass intereference on Jackson most because his arm was NEARLY fully extended so it would be hard to "push off". I can see what the officials saw, and why they called it, it wouldn't have been my call but I see it.

This whole thing about the refs giving the steelers giving them the game is BS. Lets take that big ben rushing TD off the board, fine. The Randel EL HUGE PASS, and the Willie Parker HUGE RUN, give the steelers 14 ... 14-10 still wins the game. Mike Holmgren didn't call a great game, especially in the fourth quarter.
There is your problem right there. That offensive pi call doesn't get made and that gives you a 14-14 tie. Even with the Ben TD (where I still say the plane was not crossed, but the evidence doesn't conclusively say anything - so yes the play unfortunately stands), a 21-14 game is very different from 21-10. With those extra 4 points, Seattle doesn't have to chuck it to the end zone every snap, forcing the Steelers to play the field. As it stood, as long as the recievers were blanketed deep, the Seahawks could only chew up the clock with short yardage plays. That, and the blown offsides call changed the game.

The luckiest person at the game? Hines Ward. This was a year when there was no MVP. Not a single stand out performance in my mind. Until the last two drives, I would have given it to Hasselbeck...
 
I have no problem with the Roethlisberger touchdown. I don't think it should have been called a touchdown, but it was. And since it was I think the official had to uphold it after the review.
But the Seahawks should have had a touchdown at the end of the half. The analysts were calling it the "Michael Vick Rule" where kicking the pilon should have counted as his 2nd foot being in when he caught the pass. Why the officials missed that and the replay booth didn't have them review it on such a close play is beyond me.
 
It's always foxed me why the NFL doesn't adopt the rugby rule for a touchdown -- i.e. the ball must be touched down to score. Would remove all arguments about 'breaking the plane'.

Seeing as how it's called a touchdown, maybe this was once the way it was played -- anybody know, and if so when and why it was changed?

Another rugby rule that would improve the US game would be for the conversion kick to be taken in line with where the touchdown was scored. This would introduce a new level of skill, badly needed as the vast majority of conversions from centre field are scored. It would also reward touchdown scorers who are free or good enough to go in 'under the posts'.
 
Another article about the terrible officiating....this time from ESPN Senior Writer Michael Smith:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs05/columns/story?columnist=smith_michael&id=2320683

Game's third team upstaged Steelers, Hawks

DETROIT -- Three weeks ago, after the Steelers held on to upset Indianapolis, Joey Porter was unhappy about the overturning of Troy Polamalu's fourth-quarter interception that could have sealed the win much earlier. Believing that deep down the league preferred Peyton Manning and the Colts to win, Porter publicly criticized the game officials, asking them not to "take the game from us."

Well, the Steelers can call it even now, as the officials who performed well enough throughout the season to earn the privilege of working Super Bowl XL performed Sunday as though they were trying to make it up to the Steelers by giving them the game -- not just any game, but the biggest game. And, yes, this time the other guys, the Seahawks, cried conspiracy, only not quite as loudly as Porter.

"You know, that's what happens when the world is against you," one Seahawk said after the 21-10 loss at Ford/Heinz Field. "No one wanted us to win. They wanted Jerome Bettis to win and go out a hero, and they got it."

Seattle had its share of goats: in particular, tight end Jerramy Stevens, who dropped four balls, and kicker Josh Brown, who missed two field-goal attempts. Almost to a man, the Seahawks pointed the blame finger at themselves for converting only one of three red zone attempts (when they had been the best in the league in that area, scoring a touchdown on 71.7 percent of their trips inside the 20-yard line); for allowing Ben Roethlisberger to improvise and complete a 37-yard pass to game MVP Hines Ward to the 1; for giving up a 75-yard touchdown run to Willie Parker; and for getting beaten by a trick play on Antwaan Randle El's pass to fellow receiver Ward for a touchdown, a first in Super Bowl history. If you read between the lines, though, they pretty much spelled out in bold letters that they had plenty of help in handing Pittsburgh its fifth Lombardi Trophy.

Namely, the boys in black and white.

"Those things are out of our control," Seahawks quarterback Matt Hasselbeck said of the three major penalties that helped change the game completely. Not saying the outcome of the game would have been any different, but for sure it would have been a different game. "That's the way [the officials] called them," Hasselbeck continued. "The Steelers played well enough to win tonight, and we didn't. They should get credit. It's disappointing, it's hard, but what are you going to do?"

Here's what referee Bill Leavy's crew did, point blank: It robbed Seattle. The Seahawks could have played better, sure. They could have done more to overcome the poor officiating. We understand that those things happen and all, but even with all the points Seattle left on the field, there's a good chance the Seahawks would have scored more than the Steelers if the officials had let the players play.

In the biggest game of the year, the biggest game in sports, even, the officials were just a little too visible. In that regard, the Super Bowl provided a fitting conclusion to a postseason packed with pitiful performances by the game's third team. There were incorrect down-by-contact rulings in both NFC wild-card games; a touchdown that could have gone either way and should have gone the other way -- in favor of Tampa Bay -- in the Bucs' loss to the Redskins; the Patriots got no love in Denver in being hit with a bogus pass interference penalty and not catching a break on Champ Bailey's fumble at the goal line that looked as though it could have been a touchback; and, of course, the Polamalu play.

Still, what happened to the Seahawks wasn't the same as, say, New England going into Denver and playing badly (five turnovers) on top of the bad calls. Seattle gained almost 400 yards and turned it over just once.

You see, you can spend weeks -- and we did; two, in fact -- analyzing and dissecting matchups and giving each team the edge in certain areas and trying to figure out how the game is going to play out, but the two things you can't account for are turnovers and officials. The latter were the X-factor Sunday. Edge: Steelers.

It actually was a fairly clean game from a penalty standpoint, without a whole lot of yellow on the field -- 10 accepted penalties between the teams. Seven were against the Seahawks, though, a team that tied with Indianapolis for the second-fewest penalties (94) in the regular season. But those calls against the Seahawks stuck out like the Space Needle on the Seattle skyline.

Consider: The Seahawks lost 161 yards to penalties when you combine the penalty yards (70) and the plays the flags wiped out (91). By halftime alone, when it trailed 7-3, Seattle had had 73 hard-earned yards and a touchdown eliminated.

Hasselbeck hit Darrell Jackson with an apparent 16-yard scoring pass in the first quarter, but the play came back when Jackson was called for offensive pass interference. It was a touch foul. Jackson extended his arm, yes, but both players were fighting for position, and he didn't create any separation by doing so. It was like a referee calling a hand-check in a key moment of Game 7 of the NBA Finals.

The Seahawks had to settle for three instead of seven.

Still, that was early, and that one didn't change the game as much as did a holding call against Sean Locklear early in the fourth quarter with Pittsburgh leading 14-10. That one wiped out an 18-yard catch by Stevens that would have taken the ball to the 1. Locklear supposedly held Clark Haggans, so instead of first-and-goal at the 1 and the chance to complete a 98-yard touchdown drive and take a three-point lead, Seattle faced first-and-20 at the 29.

Three plays later, Ike Taylor picked off a Hasselbeck pass, and Hasselbeck went low to make the tackle on Taylor's return and was called for a 15-yard personal foul for a low block. The Steelers set up shop at their 44. That one right there made no sense.

Pittsburgh likes to run its trick plays in the middle of the field. Boom! Four plays later, from Seattle's 43, Randle El took a reverse and threw a sweet strike on the run to Ward. It was 21-10, and that was all she wrote. Everyone knows how important it is to play Pittsburgh with a lead or with the score tied. The Steelers don't lose when they're up by 11.

Eleven just so happens to be the total points taken away by bogus calls. Some penalties meant points; others meant field position. A holding call in the second quarter negated Peter Warrick's 34-yard punt return that would have started Seattle in Pittsburgh territory.

By contrast, the Steelers might have gotten a break on Roethlisberger's 1-yard touchdown plunge on third-and-goal in the second quarter. Leavy reviewed the play under the booth's orders, since it occurred inside the two-minute mark, and while still photos of an airborne Roethlisberger showed that the ball might have broken the plane of the goal line, he landed short of it and reached the ball over. It was close. Head linesman Mark Hittner didn't seem so sure of it, hesitating before signaling touchdown.

"I don't think he scored," Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren said.

It was that kind of evening for the Seahawks, who represent a town where residents know all too well that when it rains, it pours. If having what seemed like 90 percent of the 68,200 in attendance waving Terrible Towels wasn't enough to make Seattle feel as though it was playing on the road, the officials called it as though the Seahawks actually were.

Pittsburgh capitalized on its opportunities. And guys like Bill Cowher, Ward, Dan Rooney and The Bus are all very deserving of a championship -- and it's nice to see them win one -- but it would have been better had it not happened like this. It's like the Seahawks said: Not taking anything away from the Steelers, but keep it real.

"We had a touchdown taken away from us, the first one we scored," said Hasselbeck, who was measured in his words but clear in his frustration, "and then we had the ball at the 1-yard line, they called a penalty on us. That was unfortunate."

"I thought they were offside [on the play Locklear was called for holding]," center Robbie Tobeck said. "I thought we had a free play on because they had two guys come across. You know, that's the game. In a game, there's situations you have to overcome, and all night long we didn't do a good job of overcoming those things, and that's something we've done all year."

In the offseason, 31 teams will be back at the drawing board, evaluating what they need to do to knock off the Steelers in the fall. After the postseason they just had, Mike Pereira and the NFL's crew of officials would be wise to take a long, hard look at themselves. It's a real shame when, on the game's biggest stage, the major players aren't players at all. We saw too much of the third team in Super Bowl XL and not enough Seahawks and Steelers.

Michael Smith is a senior writer for ESPN.com.
 
Kwyjibo said:
Lets take that big ben rushing TD off the board, fine. The Randel EL HUGE PASS, and the Willie Parker HUGE RUN, give the steelers 14 ... 14-10 still wins the game. Mike Holmgren didn't call a great game, especially in the fourth quarter.
Yeah but if you agree that the offensive pass interference wasn't really a good call, then it is 14-14, not 14-10.

Frankly, I won't say that the Steelers didn't deserve to win. They made the big plays when they needed it and I congratualte them on that. I do think that having as many important plays called back against Seattle has to take the wind out of your sails a little.

Seattle wasn't robbed, but I don't feel like it was exactly a fairly called game.
 
Mustafa said:
It's always foxed me why the NFL doesn't adopt the rugby rule for a touchdown -- i.e. the ball must be touched down to score. Would remove all arguments about 'breaking the plane'.

Seeing as how it's called a touchdown, maybe this was once the way it was played -- anybody know, and if so when and why it was changed?

Another rugby rule that would improve the US game would be for the conversion kick to be taken in line with where the touchdown was scored. This would introduce a new level of skill, badly needed as the vast majority of conversions from centre field are scored. It would also reward touchdown scorers who are free or good enough to go in 'under the posts'.
That is a great idea. I would actually love to see those rules put in place.
 
Mustafa said:
Another rugby rule that would improve the US game would be for the conversion kick to be taken in line with where the touchdown was scored. This would introduce a new level of skill, badly needed as the vast majority of conversions from centre field are scored. It would also reward touchdown scorers who are free or good enough to go in 'under the posts'.
This would only extend as far as the hash marks, as the ball is placed on the nearest one if a play ends outside of them.

However, there is an issue of points being scored. The best way to describe it is that the series of possessions leading to a score has now ended. Thus a new series (consisting of one play) has begun. All new series of possessions begin in the center of the field. Erego, the ball must be place in the center of the field for all point after attempts. To do otherwise would create inconsistancies in the game. Would the punter free kick from a hashmark after a safety, even though doing so would punish the recieving team?
 
hell it was the worst superbowl i had watched in a long time

Grey's Anatomy was the most exciting thing of the day for me.
 
Mustafa said:
Another rugby rule that would improve the US game would be for the conversion kick to be taken in line with where the touchdown was scored. This would introduce a new level of skill, badly needed as the vast majority of conversions from centre field are scored. It would also reward touchdown scorers who are free or good enough to go in 'under the posts'.

I'm kind of confused by this rule ... but I don't think it would work in the NFL. People like to see complex plays and reverses ... I don't want to reward coaches who push it up the gut, thats not entertaining. I don't want to see more QB sneaks, I want naked bootlegs and so forth, but maybe I'm alone.

Back to the officiating. I have a clear stance on this and it wasn't reflected in my original post. Under no circumstances do I think that the officials decide the game. I have never in my life seen such a circumstance. To me the bottom line is that any team always has a chance to score more points. This probably sounds oversimplified. I've seen a lot of bad officiating this past year in general, and sometimes it breaks my heart but theres nothing I can do. Stretching across all sports, 2005 Men's Basketball National Championship game wasn't called exactly fairly in my opinion. 2005 World Series had some obvious questionable calls. The Big Ten ref's aren't calling an even game in my opinion especially when Illinois is on the road, if you're going to be oversensitive on fouls then call it the same way for both sides. Now these playoffs and superbowl ... I think overall you guys are right, but even in all these months of bad calling, I can't look to a single game and say hey, they scored as much as they could in every opportunity and they still lost the game.

Seattle did not play a great game, they've played better. They tried to over stretch their kicker beyond his ability and to me they barely established their MVP ... he had a decent game but I don't think they used him properly. Steelers got a little luck, and some better coaching in my opinion. The steelers relied on what they had ... good game from willie parker, minimal passing from big ben ( I realize he has his on and off games, but the offense didn't seem to rotate around him in this game), solid D, and the trick plays that got them there.
 
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