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ashleykaryl

macrumors 6502
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Jul 22, 2011
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I am currently using a Mid 2010 Mac Pro with Mojave and I won't try to make it run Catalina. It is still an excellent computer, but I won't be able to use it forever and I'm likely to replace it with a new Mac Mini. Given that any new Mac Mini is going to ship with Catalina I wondered if it would be capable of running Mojave somehow for 32-bit legacy software. My initial thought was that this may be possible through a VM or external startup drive, but I don't know if new Macs may have minimum OS requirements.
 
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If you hurry, it's unlikely that it will be shipped with Catalina.

Another option is to find one sitting in a stock for a long time, those are still likely to have Mojave installed. Apple can't update OS on Macs it can't get hands on.
 
Yes I have thought about that. There is also a chance though Apple could release an updated Mini in 2019 with better spec, so I am weighing up the options. My original plan was to keep the Mac Pro as a backup running Mojave but being able to boot from an external drive or VM would take up a lot less space and keep it all on the same machine.
 
Yes I have thought about that. There is also a chance though Apple could release an updated Mini in 2019 with better spec, so I am weighing up the options. My original plan was to keep the Mac Pro as a backup running Mojave but being able to boot from an external drive or VM would take up a lot less space and keep it all on the same machine.

I do not think we will see Mac mini refresh this year.

But, in the end, if you get Mac mini with Catalina installed out of factory, then you are out of luck with anything but VM.
 
If Mojave and associated software would actually work with a VM on a future Mini that doesn't sound like a bad option.
 
Buy a Mini with Mojave. Change the Mac Mini T2 settings to medium security -> Allows any version of signed operating system ever trusted by Apple to run:

29285-47130-005-Security-Settings-l.jpg
 
Assuming no internal hardware changes (and I wouldn't expect any), if 2018-design Minis start shipping with Catalina pre-installed, it will probably be possible to "downgrade them" back to Mojave.

But it will require a complete erase/re-install.
And -- you'll need a copy of Mojave with which to do this.

I would suggest creating a "virgin install" of Mojave on an external drive.
That is to say, install it, but DON'T "use it", except to create perhaps 3 "dummy accounts" (such as temp501, temp502, temp503).
Then put a copy of CarbonCopyCloner onto it.

Now you have a "clonable copy" of Mojave, which can be cloned over to any Mac capable of booting Mojave.

The problem with archiving an installer may be ... what happens if the copy you have "chokes" during the installation?

This WILL NOT HAPPEN with a cloned virginal copy.
Just "clone it and go".

Perhaps the easiest solution:
Buy the new Mini NOW. It will come with Mojave on it.
(actually, that's what I did. I plan to continue to live in the "32-bit" Mac world for the next 7-8 years).
 
I am currently using a Mid 2010 Mac Pro with Mojave and I won't try to make it run Catalina. It is still an excellent computer, but I won't be able to use it forever and I'm likely to replace it with a new Mac Mini. Given that any new Mac Mini is going to ship with Catalina I wondered if it would be capable of running Mojave somehow for 32-bit legacy software. My initial thought was that this may be possible through a VM or external startup drive, but I don't know if new Macs may have minimum OS requirements.

If you purchase a refurbished Mac Mini 2018 of any model from Apple, it will come with the stock OS that it first came with, even if Apple released a new OS, meaning that it came first with Mojave and it will be refurbed with Mojave as the T2 chip is signed with that. If you buy brand new, however, it may come with Catalina. New and refurbed Mini are virtually indistinguishable aside from the cheaper discounted price.
 
As a first step I've made a USB installer of Mojave. I am a bit wary of refurbished Macs because I have a theory based on past experience that repaired Macs are never right.

It's not just the 32-bit apps that might be a problem, since all apps apparently need to be notarized by the developer to work on Catalina, so you may have a perfectly functioning 64-bit app in Mojave that is blocked in Catalina if that step has not been taken by the developer. This sounds like a bigger update than it initially appears with a focus on security.

Regarding a new Mini I am almost certain there won't be any major changes. My hesitation is partly that there may be a speed bump in October or early next year, plus there may be some minor modifications that remove any design gremlins found in the 2018 model. A 2019 model might also see an extra year of OS compatibility over a 2018 model.

Looking at those T2 security settings it might even be possible to maintain that on High for the most part, then drop temporarily to medium when you just need to a VM or external drive.

I really have no problems using Mojave for my general work and in theory I could keep going like this for a couple years, however the Mac Pro processors will no longer receive microcode updates and the internet is generally becoming more risky, so having a T2 chip with the latest OS is probably a good step.
 
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It's unclear how and what the T2 security chip will do if you roll back to an unsigned Mojave copy; meaning that what you made with the USB installer is an unsigned Mojave copy. The T2 security chip design was to prevent booting from an unsigned operating system, either from an external drive or from a network boot. You can bypass this security feature by setting it to medium or low, but you'll lose a number of security benefits when future software demands it and with the T2 protection, some software may inadvertently be blocked even if, as you said, is capable of running in 64bit. Sort of like the iOS devices; you can move forward but you can't roll back to the previous version easily. So if you start out with a signed Mojave copy, then updating to Catalina and onwards is best.

I skipped the Mac Mini 2018 model and actually bought a used Mac Pro 5,1 as a stopgap measure. I didn't find the 2018 model inspiring as they are using the 8th gen Core i series CPUs and the iGPU on the 8th gen is uninspiring. The 10th gen Core i series CPU, however, is something else. And if the refreshed Mac Mini uses the 10th gen CPU, then I will be tempted to update to that Mini as the iGPU on the 10th gen is capable of doing AI stuff that some of my imaging applications are already taking advantage of with the PC version that supports the 10th gen Core i series CPU. Which means, I don't need to rely on my AMD RX580 to do the compute GPU work that my current AI imaging apps are using. Besides, the Mac Pro 5,1 with Mojave will receive security updates for a few more years; enough time to wait for the Mini to be refreshed with the 10th gen Core i series. Yes, the internet is a pretty unsecured place to be, but the micro-code worries with the Mac Pro 5,1 should be addressed at least with whatever security updates Apple can work with.
 
All good points and it would be useful to avoid needing an eGPU for a Mini. It has been suggested that an external power supply for the Mini would make space for a small dedicated graphics card, though Apple might think that makes the Mini a bit too good.

From what I've heard the top spec 2018 Mini is a bit faster than my computer, except on video performance. A lot of my work at present is not that demanding in terms of processor requirements, however I have a plan to start working with 4K video before long.

The main reason I moved on to Mojave was because there were various security updates for High Sierra that really seemed to mess up my computer and I wonder how long before the same thing happens with Mojave. It's worth remembering Apple will not be too concerned about how their updates run on 10 year old computers. Newer hardware should perform much better in that regard.
 
All good points and it would be useful to avoid needing an eGPU for a Mini. It has been suggested that an external power supply for the Mini would make space for a small dedicated graphics card, though Apple might think that makes the Mini a bit too good.

From what I've heard the top spec 2018 Mini is a bit faster than my computer, except on video performance. A lot of my work at present is not that demanding in terms of processor requirements, however I have a plan to start working with 4K video before long.

The main reason I moved on to Mojave was because there were various security updates for High Sierra that really seemed to mess up my computer and I wonder how long before the same thing happens with Mojave. It's worth remembering Apple will not be too concerned about how their updates run on 10 year old computers. Newer hardware should perform much better in that regard.

With video editing, there's time line editing and there's encoding time and you can't really compare the Mac Pro 5,1 against the Mini 2018 on equal basis. The reason is, the Pro allows a PCIe GPU which helps time line editing (FX, noise reduction, color grading) because it has more GDDR memory than the integrated GPU in the mini and also has more compute cores. And yet the Mini 2018 will simply smoke the Pro 5,1 is in the encoding time, namely h.264 and h.265 4k files using Quicksync and the T2 chip. When combined together, Quicksync and T2 chip can deliver many times faster encoding than even the fastest X5690 dual Xeon because Xeons don't have Quicksync. In fact, that's how I set my 4K video system up with both my Macbook Air (which has Quicksync) and my Mac Pro 5,1 which has the performance of a mid speced 2018 Mini, but has the RX580 for faster time line editing and my Mini acting as a server between the 2. For time line editing, I use the Mac Pro 5,1, but when I want to encode the movie into h.264, I would use the Air and have it encode the project file saved on the Mini server via Quicksync. I use Davinci Resolve which allows me to do this. In essence, I have the best of both worlds. I would rather prefer the new 10th gen Ice Lake if it's in the mini which will allow me to do away with the Pro 5,1 and the old Mini server for good, as the built-in GPU of the Intel Ice Lake is remarkably capable for decent 4K editing and faster 4K encoding than previous gen CPUs.
 
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What legacy software do you want to keep running? The best solution is buy a new Mac for the future and keep the old one for the legacy apps. You can put them on the same monitor and just switch inputs and maybe add another keyboard.
 
@marclondon I still use Photoshop CS6 that is 64-bit but has 32-bit components. Then there are apps I use a lot like Yummy FTP that is no longer available or supported and I read it will not work with Catalina, possibly due to the notorizing issue. The same may apply to other software, even if fairly recent and 64-bit enabled.

Just last week I was forced to ditch 1Password 6.8.9, because Safari 13 blocked access to the browser extension and that meant moving to version 7, which is a subscription deal. One way or another Apple is making substantial changes that may impact a lot of software and not just the old 32-bit stuff. Some apps like Mailhub and Trash it! appear in the system information as coming from unidentified developer. My guess is that will be a problem with Catalina.

Most likely all of this means keeping the Mac Pro, both for legacy software and as a backup, then moving to a Mini for the bulk of my work. That was very interesting what @iluvmacs99 explained about the differences in performances with each setup having pros & cons.
 
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