Would an ARM Mac be compatible with an egpu?

[james948]

Is it possible for a hypothetical ARM Mac to use an external GPU?
Would it need a custom GPU for the arm processor or possibility It would work happily with something like the blackmagic.?

EDIT:
this isn't a purchasing decision; it's a technical question. I'm just wondering about the possibilities. It seems odd that Apple would begin doing the work with Egpus only to transition to ARM if, for technical reasons, an arm chip wouldn't work with an NVIDIA or AMD gpu.

I didn't know where to post this but figured the MBP forum might be a healthy place to get some tech knowhow.

 

[Closingracer]

There isn’t one so how would anybody know ?

 

[keysofanxiety]

Apple are beginning to push eGPUs, so for the hypothetical machine I would imagine that this is a feature they would support before releasing the product. Whether or not it would be backwards compatible with existing hardware is another matter.

With regards to the graphics card, I imagine they'll be making their own cards as well, as they currently do in iOS devices. If they're making the plunge to a different processor, they'll likely go the whole hog.

In terms of the specific hardware for what is required for the eGPU to work, I haven't the foggiest.

It's all hypothetical after all. I certainly wouldn't make any purchasing decisions based on answers in this thread.

 

[maflynn]

I kind of think that goes against the grain of what apple may want to achieve with an ARM based laptop. Since this all but mythical, trying to foresee compatibility of a component on an unannounced, unreleased product is difficult.

 

[james948]

Yeah sorry this isn't a purchasing decision; it's a technical question. I'm just wondering about the possibilities. It seems odd that Apple would begin doing the work with Egpus only to transition to ARM if, for technical reasons, an arm chip wouldn't work with an NVIDIA or AMD gpu.

I didn't know where to post this but figured the MBP forum might be a healthy place to get some tech knowhow.

 

[Falhófnir]

I don’t see why it wouldn’t be - especially as it would be entirely in Apple’s hands as the ones designing the chips for these machines.

 

[chrfr]

Is it possible for a hypothetical ARM Mac to use an external GPU?
Would it need a custom GPU for the arm processor or possibility It would work happily with something like the blackmagic.?

EDIT:
this isn't a purchasing decision; it's a technical question. I'm just wondering about the possibilities. It seems odd that Apple would begin doing the work with Egpus only to transition to ARM if, for technical reasons, an arm chip wouldn't work with an NVIDIA or AMD gpu.

I didn't know where to post this but figured the MBP forum might be a healthy place to get some tech knowhow.

There's too many variables for anyone to know. One big one is that Thunderbolt is an Intel technology.

 

[james948]

There's too many variables for anyone to know. One big one is that Thunderbolt is an Intel technology.

That’s a really good point.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

Is it possible for a hypothetical ARM Mac to use an external GPU?
Would it need a custom GPU for the arm processor or possibility It would work happily with something like the blackmagic.?

EDIT:
this isn't a purchasing decision; it's a technical question. I'm just wondering about the possibilities. It seems odd that Apple would begin doing the work with Egpus only to transition to ARM if, for technical reasons, an arm chip wouldn't work with an NVIDIA or AMD gpu.

I didn't know where to post this but figured the MBP forum might be a healthy place to get some tech knowhow.

There would be no problem. TB3 could be licensed and adapted. Apple and Intel made the original Lightpeak standard together. Just need Metal apps that use the eGPU.

Hypothetically an iPad with a Thunderbolt 3 port could utilise slide into an eGPU dock to become a desktop computer.

 

[Ploki]

I don't think I have ever saw ARM cpu paired with a desktop GPU.

 

[Nermal]

I don't think I have ever saw ARM cpu paired with a desktop GPU.

The old Iyonix machines had a regular GeForce card.

 

[Cashmonee]

I suspect if (and that is a big IF in my opinion right now) Apple moved to ARM for computers, they would also be building the GPU to go with it as they do with the iOS devices. That would likely negate the need for any other GPU in Apple's eyes. On top of that, presumably one of the major drivers for moving to ARM would be to have as much hardware built in house as possible. So, my prediction would be that we would see eGPU's go away with the adoption of ARM.

To be honest, ARM or not, eGPU's feel out of character for Apple and I do not think they are seen as a long term solution. If anything, eGPUs could be seen as an indication that an ARM switch is coming and Apple is simply using a band-aid to hold them over until they are making their own CPU and GPU. They really have painted themselves into a corner relying on AMD for GPUs and Intel for CPUs. Neither company is really delivering lately in those two arenas.

 

[Howard2k]

I don’t see why it wouldn’t be - especially as it would be entirely in Apple’s hands as the ones designing the chips for these machines.

By the same token, why would they? Isn’t the GPU part of the SOC today? And I don’t think there are performance concerns?

 

[Falhófnir]

By the same token, why would they? Isn’t the GPU part of the SOC today? And I don’t think there are performance concerns?

This is true, I don’t know what sort of dark alchemy they’re doing to get in the region of 1.4Tflops of performance (if it truly is comparable to an Xbox one S) out of an iGPU on a 7w chip but that’s not far off of an Nvidia GTX 1050 (1.8) which is slightly better than the Radeon pro 560...

 

[northernmunky]

Apple are not going to transition to ARM for laptops/desktops, its just silly conspiracy theories doing the rounds. I suppose its possible in terms of creating a lower spec cheaper affordable netbook style Mac, but for doing real work they'll never reach the performance of the Intel chips and too many concessions will have to be made. Also as someone correctly pointed out, Thunderbolt is an Intel technology which is why you dont see it on AMD machines at all.

 

[Howard2k]

Also as someone correctly pointed out, Thunderbolt is an Intel technology which is why you dont see it on AMD machines at all.

Intel allows anyone to use it. It hasn't been widely adopted but AMD could certainly use it if they chose to.

 

[Cashmonee]

Apple are not going to transition to ARM for laptops/desktops, its just silly conspiracy theories doing the rounds. I suppose its possible in terms of creating a lower spec cheaper affordable netbook style Mac, but for doing real work they'll never reach the performance of the Intel chips and too many concessions will have to be made. Also as someone correctly pointed out, Thunderbolt is an Intel technology which is why you dont see it on AMD machines at all.

I tend to agree that Apple is not going to move to ARM and that the rumors are nothing more than rampant speculation, but I do not think it is because ARM will not be fast enough. ARM chips already compete with lower end Intel chips on benchmarks.

To me the issue is support. If Apple transitions away from X86, it will bring back the days of limited app support. They would give up Boot Camp and you would potentially see an exodus of developers that currently are multi-platform. Part of what made the transition to X86 successful was the fact that they were moving to the mainstream architecture.

I think more likely we will see iOS devices start to occupy the lower end of the Mac market. iPads or iPad-like devices will begin to replace things like the MacBook in Apple's lineup, with the ultimate goal being to replace all of the computers with iOS and to eventually retire macOS. Also crazy rampant speculation of course.

I just do not think it is a wise investment to move macOS to ARM when all indications are that the desktop OS's are on their way out for consumers. Microsoft already sees this and is moving away from Windows. I think we will see Apple do the same with macOS.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

I tend to agree that Apple is not going to move to ARM and that the rumors are nothing more than rampant speculation, but I do not think it is because ARM will not be fast enough. ARM chips already compete with lower end Intel chips on benchmarks.

To me the issue is support. If Apple transitions away from X86, it will bring back the days of limited app support. They would give up Boot Camp and you would potentially see an exodus of developers that currently are multi-platform. Part of what made the transition to X86 successful was the fact that they were moving to the mainstream architecture.

I think more likely we will see iOS devices start to occupy the lower end of the Mac market. iPads or iPad-like devices will begin to replace things like the MacBook in Apple's lineup, with the ultimate goal being to replace all of the computers with iOS and to eventually retire macOS. Also crazy rampant speculation of course.

I just do not think it is a wise investment to move macOS to ARM when all indications are that the desktop OS's are on their way out for consumers. Microsoft already sees this and is moving away from Windows. I think we will see Apple do the same with macOS.

I have not seen anyone say ARM will completely replace x86 or that macOS will be dumped. It’s not going to happen. Instead we can see diversity. x86 on the desktop and a x86 + ARM on mobile.

On the laptop side Intel has disappointed very badly and we are nowhere close to avoiding throttling issues in slim form factor. It was a problem in their last quad core and even worse in their current six core.

On a performance per watt basis ARM is soo far ahead it is silly. We must remember ARM began as a desktop CPU and has been respected for years. If Apple clocked the current Ax series to close to Intel clock speeds they would not only demolish Intel on benchmarks but still be sipping less energy.

macOS won’t be dumped. Instead there will probably be a toggle in the Notification Center that converts the interface from touch interface a la iOS to cursor interface a la macOS.

Boot Camp won’t go anywhere either because there is Windows for ARM that Microsoft is putting a lot of resource into.

 

[deadworlds]

I have not seen anyone say ARM will completely replace x86 or that macOS will be dumped. It’s not going to happen. Instead we can see diversity. x86 on the desktop and a x86 + ARM on mobile.

On the laptop side Intel has disappointed very badly and we are nowhere close to avoiding throttling issues in slim form factor. It was a problem in their last quad core and even worse in their current six core.

On a performance per watt basis ARM is soo far ahead it is silly. We must remember ARM began as a desktop CPU and has been respected for years. If Apple clocked the current Ax series to close to Intel clock speeds they would not only demolish Intel on benchmarks but still be sipping less energy.

macOS won’t be dumped. Instead there will probably be a toggle in the Notification Center that converts the interface from touch interface a la iOS to cursor interface a la macOS.

Boot Camp won’t go anywhere either because there is Windows for ARM that Microsoft is putting a lot of resource into.

Windows for ARM does exist but it’s not used very much being that the apps made to run on ARM architecture are few and far between. Thus windows ARM has failed to gain much traction.

 

[Cashmonee]

I have not seen anyone say ARM will completely replace x86 or that macOS will be dumped. It’s not going to happen. Instead we can see diversity. x86 on the desktop and a x86 + ARM on mobile.

On the laptop side Intel has disappointed very badly and we are nowhere close to avoiding throttling issues in slim form factor. It was a problem in their last quad core and even worse in their current six core.

On a performance per watt basis ARM is soo far ahead it is silly. We must remember ARM began as a desktop CPU and has been respected for years. If Apple clocked the current Ax series to close to Intel clock speeds they would not only demolish Intel on benchmarks but still be sipping less energy.

macOS won’t be dumped. Instead there will probably be a toggle in the Notification Center that converts the interface from touch interface a la iOS to cursor interface a la macOS.

Boot Camp won’t go anywhere either because there is Windows for ARM that Microsoft is putting a lot of resource into.

Possibly. I suspect we are beginning the last days of desktop Macs. It may be several years, but I think the ultimate destination is all mobile. ARM will certainly be a part of that, but I think with it will come with iOS and a winding down of the desktop OS. There will be little reason to have a large immobile computer for the vast majority of consumers (honestly there already is little reason). As I said, look to Microsoft for the direction. They are the canary in the coal mine. They are transitioning away from Windows as their primary income stream and are moving to services. They know the days of desktop computing are numbered and that the days of desktop OSs has passed. Interesting to note, Apple are also beginning the transition to services away from a focus on hardware, especially Mac hardware. Part of pumping services is having a walled garden like iOS. I just don't see macOS fitting in with a services-centric company, which Apple will have to transition to if they are to continue to grow.

 

[Falhófnir]

Windows for ARM does exist but it’s not used very much being that the apps made to run on ARM architecture are few and far between. Thus windows ARM has failed to gain much traction.

You’re talking about Windows RT - the latest version of windows for ARM can run existing x86 software via emulation - look up the photoshop demonstration it runs really quite well!

 

[eatrains]

To me the issue is support. If Apple transitions away from X86, it will bring back the days of limited app support.

Can't imagine too many developers or apps deal with the chip architecture.

 

[Plutonius]

Is it possible for a hypothetical ARM Mac to use an external GPU?
Would it need a custom GPU for the arm processor or possibility It would work happily with something like the blackmagic.?

EDIT:
this isn't a purchasing decision; it's a technical question. I'm just wondering about the possibilities. It seems odd that Apple would begin doing the work with Egpus only to transition to ARM if, for technical reasons, an arm chip wouldn't work with an NVIDIA or AMD gpu.

I didn't know where to post this but figured the MBP forum might be a healthy place to get some tech knowhow.

It would if the ARM Mac supported Thunderbolt (a good bet), the ARM Mac supported eGPU (a good bet), and the ARM Mac had support for the graphics card (unknown).

I think Apple will for some graphic cards but the big question is will Apple support Bootcamp in an ARM Mac ?
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Apple are not going to transition to ARM for laptops/desktops

My prediction differs from yours. I think that Apple will transition to ARM.

 

[Cashmonee]

Can't imagine too many developers or apps deal with the chip architecture.

My understanding is that developing for different architectures would mean different optimizing. This has always been quoted when there were different architectures for similar systems, such as PowerPC and x86 or the cell chip in a PS3 vs the PowerPC in an Xbox 360. I could be way off base, but I would think it would be more difficult to write for ARM and x86 than it is to write for x86. It certainly would require a rewrite of all apps.

 

[eatrains]

My understanding is that developing for different architectures would mean different optimizing. This has always been quoted when there were different architectures for similar systems, such as PowerPC and x86 or the cell chip in a PS3 vs the PowerPC in an Xbox 360. I could be way off base, but I would think it would be more difficult to write for ARM and x86 than it is to write for x86. It certainly would require a rewrite of all apps.

Right, but I don't think many devs write for ARM or x86 these days. That's all handled by the compiler.