Would you ever buy a one port Macbook with a tiny-travel keyboard??

[newellj]

I can't even tell if you're being serious with this. Bluetooth won't work for everything.

How many computers since your original IBM PC have had 3.5mm audio connectors? How many other audio devices of any kind also have had this since then and to date?

It's the universal standard for interfacing an audio source to an amplifier. It's on everything. Computers, phones, home theatre, computer speakers, TVs, cars, guitar amps, meeting rooms, auditoriums and any other venue setup, most headphones (including my wireless pair), etc...

Apple seems to want to avoid standards so they can find ways to lock users down to their "ecosystem."

On the very rare occasions when I want sound from my computers, I use speakers.

Yes, I see younger people in our office who work, or appear to be working (it's hard to know), with one or sometimes two earbuds in their ears all day long. It's hard to believe they're really focused on their work, but that's no my problem directly.

Forget headphones or earbuds, when did I ever connect my computer to an amp? For that matter, when did you connect your computer to an amp?

I'm not saying that the 3.5mm audio interface is bad or obsolete, but I am saying that in my opinion it's far, far less useful on a MacBook than a second USB-C port.

And there's nothing about USB-C that represents locking anyone into the Apple ecosphere. Even in 2015, it was just annoyingly ahead of where most of our hardware was. In 2018, it's just not a serious issue.

 

[bill-p]

This is such a head-banger for me and has been for over two years, since they rolled out the first rMB.

Over on the iPhone side, they've killed the 3.5mm audio jack and are really pushing us to wireless. AirPods are so good that this is ok - as long as you can spring $160 for the AirPods.

So (I mean this politely, at least as far as you are concerned), please explain to me the logic of leaving a very antique audio interface in these laptops???

Nutty.

MacBooks are still used by audio professionals/hobbyists to produce, mix and remaster music.

This audio interface has to be kept around because of them. As antique as it is, there's a reason it's persisted for so long.

Bluetooth has improved leaps and bounds, but is still nowhere close to the "quality" of the 3.5mm port. The chief issue is "latency" (delay from when you expect a signal to make some kind of noise until it actually makes that noise). If you do professional audio work, you'll know how annoying "latency" can become. No matter how far Bluetooth tech has gone, it still hasn't solved this issue.

My point exactly (and was two years ago). Dump the 3.5mm audio and give us another USB-C. If you need music or audio for a movie, go BT.

Ironically, it's the other way around. Bluetooth is for the consumer side... so if you're just listening to music or watching a movie, it's okay.

But for any kind of audio production work, it's not.

Apple is actually not the first company to remove the 3.5mm jack from their phones. Hell, most phones in the past didn't even have the port.

But honestly, I can't think of even one company that has had the balls to remove the jack from any of their computers. It's just that important.

----

Beyond that, the more technical reason might also be because USB-C currently has no way to carry analog audio signal. It's purely a mish-mash of DisplayPort, USB 3.0, or Thunderbolt 3. The standards are not really finalized yet for anything other than some digital interfaces, so there needs to be at least one analog port.

On the other hand, Lightning does carry analog signal. Apple controls the standards for Lightning so they were able to add analog audio output to it fairly easily.

And on another hand entirely, the Bluetooth standards that Apple supports on their devices are not the latest either, so you're not getting the best sound quality even when latency is not the chief issue (in cases like listening to music or watching movies). Specifically, Macs only support up to a maximum of AptX, I'm not sure they even support AptX HD. iOS doesn't even support AptX. That means you're looking at less than MP3 quality when you use Bluetooth on Apple devices. Meanwhile, Windows and Android have gone much further along and gotten to support LDAC.

^ so there, if you need the full reasons, I believe those are it.

 

[newellj]

MacBooks are still used by audio professionals/hobbyists to produce, mix and remaster music.

This audio interface has to be kept around because of them. As antique as it is, there's a reason it's persisted for so long.

Bluetooth has improved leaps and bounds, but is still nowhere close to the "quality" of the 3.5mm port. The chief issue is "latency" (delay from when you expect a signal to make some kind of noise until it actually makes that noise). If you do professional audio work, you'll know how annoying "latency" can become. No matter how far Bluetooth tech has gone, it still hasn't solved this issue.



Ironically, it's the other way around. Bluetooth is for the consumer side... so if you're just listening to music or watching a movie, it's okay.

But for any kind of audio production work, it's not.

Apple is actually not the first company to remove the 3.5mm jack from their phones. Hell, most phones in the past didn't even have the port.

But honestly, I can't think of even one company that has had the balls to remove the jack from any of their computers. It's just that important.

----

Beyond that, the more technical reason might also be because USB-C currently has no way to carry analog audio signal. It's purely a mish-mash of DisplayPort, USB 3.0, or Thunderbolt 3. The standards are not really finalized yet for anything other than some digital interfaces, so there needs to be at least one analog port.

On the other hand, Lightning does carry analog signal. Apple controls the standards for Lightning so they were able to add analog audio output to it fairly easily.

And on another hand entirely, the Bluetooth standards that Apple supports on their devices are not the latest either, so you're not getting the best sound quality even when latency is not the chief issue (in cases like listening to music or watching movies). Specifically, Macs only support up to a maximum of AptX, I'm not sure they even support AptX HD. iOS doesn't even support AptX. That means you're looking at less than MP3 quality when you use Bluetooth on Apple devices. Meanwhile, Windows and Android have gone much further along and gotten to support LDAC.

^ so there, if you need the full reasons, I believe those are it.

Thanks for a very well-written post. The reasons you give make a lot of sense for the 15" machines, and some sense for 13". But it's not as clear to me that these really apply to the passively-cooled 12" rMB?

 

[bill-p]

Even iPads are targeted toward creative types now, so it's not like the MacBook is not up to the task. You don't need something like the 15" MacBook to use well-optimized software.

Back around 10 years ago, people used to make music on machines far slower than the fanless MacBook.

 

[gitresethard]

Am I the only one that thinks this computer is a bad design?

The 2017 12" Macbook is my 10th macbook, my 11th personal mac machine. This is my favourite mac machine ever and I love the design.

Not the best keyboard but I'm okay with it. I'm using the 2017 15" macbook pro i7-7820hq as my main home machine, and the 12" macbook i7-7y75 16gb ram as my secondary home/office machine, and a 2015 15" mbpro as my office machine. I use them primarily for software development.

I never plug anything on the 12" except the charger. On the 15" office machine I use an external 4k and another 1080p screen. I never use a mouse, except on my gaming pc. I can't imagine working without the trackpad.

It might be a "bad design" for other users, maybe if they expect it is a replacement for a main dekstop-replacement type of a machine? Because it is not.

But for my use-case: software development, getting bored in the office grab the 12" go work on a couch, on a standup desk, in a coffee shop, push my changes to git, go back to my desk on my main machine and pull all updates from git, continue working, go to a meeting with the 12" without unplugging monitors on my main machine. That works for me.

But If I will only be able to keep 1 mac machine, I will go for my 2017 15", not because it is my favourite but just because it can do more stuff (multi external monitors etc). I think the 12" is my favourite because it's so small and light and that I know I have another machine for more complicated stuff when I need it.

 

[Neodym]

can you type for a long time without fatigue on such little travel?

Fatigue will only come while you’re hammering at the keys as you would with a more traditional keyboard and more key travel. Once you have adjusted to use much less force for pressing a key, you can type lots of text without problems. And I’m still using gen1 on a 2015 rMB ...

I get the part about minimalist, and then complaining about 1 port - you end up with a dock of some sort to replace the ports you would have used. It always strikes me as ironic for a company that is supposed to be all about simplicity that you need to add dongles just to do anything useful with their products.

Only that you don’t need to. The rMB is designed primarily as wireless and ultra-mobile device. For that scenario you don’t need dongles galore. Sure, there are lots of scenarios that may involve the need for more/different ports on a notebook, but the rMB is simply not targeted at those.
If your workflow absolutely requires to add dongles, you may not have paid enough attention to it prior to purchasing and decided for the wrong tool for the job.

 

[shaunp]

Fatigue will only come while you’re hammering at the keys as you would with a more traditional keyboard and more key travel. Once you have adjusted to use much less force for pressing a key, you can type lots of text without problems. And I’m still using gen1 on a 2015 rMB ...


Only that you don’t need to. The rMB is designed primarily as wireless and ultra-mobile device. For that scenario you don’t need dongles galore. Sure, there are lots of scenarios that may involve the need for more/different ports on a notebook, but the rMB is simply not targeted at those.
If your workflow absolutely requires to add dongles, you may not have paid enough attention to it prior to purchasing and decided for the wrong tool for the job.

I get that with the rMB, but not the MBP. The MBP is sold as a workstation class laptop yet has only 3 usable ports. So O looked at my workflow and bought a Thinkpad. Shame to have to move away from Mac just to be able to do stuff that I used to be able to do before Apple slimmed everything down so it was nice and pretty.

 

[lambertjohn]

I don't see why I would ever buy a one port Macbook with a keyboard that clicks in a tiny amount (travel)

Use case : usb mouse, external hard drive AND charging at the same time.

I'm a minimalist. WHY would I ever even consider a desk CLUTTERED with dongles. Could I even charge the computer and use the above mentioned peripherals at the same time?

Why would I ever want to use a keyboard that doesn't even click properly? And I hate old school keyboards that travelled too much but this is too little, surely.

Am I the only one that thinks this computer is a bad design?

Your post is obtuse, and implies we are all clones of one another with the exact same computing needs. We're not. I use my 2017 MacBook for writing, and for that, it's fantastic. I use a bluetooth mouse, and print to a wireless printer, so one port works perfect for me. But I certainly don't expect the guy standing next to me to agree with my opinion...and frankly, I don't care if he does or he doesn't. My money, my computer, my needs.

 

[Clix Pix]

I don't see why I would ever buy a one port Macbook with a keyboard that clicks in a tiny amount (travel)

Use case : usb mouse, external hard drive AND charging at the same time.

I'm a minimalist. WHY would I ever even consider a desk CLUTTERED with dongles. Could I even charge the computer and use the above mentioned peripherals at the same time?

Why would I ever want to use a keyboard that doesn't even click properly? And I hate old school keyboards that travelled too much but this is too little, surely.

Am I the only one that thinks this computer is a bad design?

You don't see why you would ever buy a one port MacBook? Well, then don't. It's that simple.

A USB mouse? No need for that -- the MacBook, just like all the other computers Apple makes, uses BlueTooth technology. Silly to plug up a port with a cable or dongle just to use a mouse these days.

No need to keep an external drive plugged in all the time, either..... Truly "minimalist" is the machine just sitting there without anything attached to it except the charging cable from time to time, as needed. That's the way my 12" MB lives. Rarely do I need to plug anything into it, and that is usually an external drive in order to do a backup or to add folders and files, which takes just a few minutes with an external SSD. The machine does just fine without being charged at the same time.

This machine has an elegant, sleek, extremely portable design and for those who appreciate it for what it is, offers exactly what is needed and wanted.

 

[deepakvrao]

Get a dock for all that and you can be minimalist whether you're at your workstation or you're trying to pound out a document on short notice on a park bench somewhere. I love the USB-C life. I'm not a fan of dongles either. I have dongles and adapters galore, but they're all coming off of my LG 5K Ultrafine and I rarely touch them.

It lets me be minimalist and the exact opposite at the same time. I only need one cable to link up my laptop to an absolutely stupid number of external peripherals:

1 or 2 USB Mice
1 3-switch footpedal
1 Ethernet line
1 USB Keyboard
1 USB Keypad
1 SD Card Reader
1 USB3 External HD
1 DAC/Headphone Amp

I used to have to disconnect 4 cables everytime I wanted to take my laptop somewhere. Now I only deal with one.

Just get a hub and you'll get the best of both worlds. Yeah, I know it's more money and I can't fault you for not being happy about that.

Grown to love the USB C too. Another port would have been nice, but I'm managing more than fine with the one, and an inexpensive HooToo hub. BT mouse and external KB, so the hub gives me second monitor, 3 drives, pass thru charging. Printer is wireless. All with a single connection to my laptop. Love it.

 

[Ermir444]

Yeah I'll change the title. I appreciate all your input - Bodybuilderpaul - can you type for a long time without fatigue on such little travel?

I still think 1 port is too few but the MBPs have 2 at least. Hope they update the air even if renamed (and the mini!)

However I see a pattern here: Macbooks have 1 port, mbps 2, imacs 2 (usb c) and imac pros 4 usbc ports. That's just silly. Giving ppl more ports for more money. No. Stop it.

Of course he can, he is Bodybuilderpaul at the end of the day

 

[pika2000]

I don't see why I would ever buy a one port Macbook with a keyboard that clicks in a tiny amount (travel)

Use case : usb mouse, external hard drive AND charging at the same time.

I'm a minimalist. WHY would I ever even consider a desk CLUTTERED with dongles. Could I even charge the computer and use the above mentioned peripherals at the same time?

Why would I ever want to use a keyboard that doesn't even click properly? And I hate old school keyboards that travelled too much but this is too little, surely.

Am I the only one that thinks this computer is a bad design?

Sure, that's what you prefer. Doesn't mean the computer is bad.

Mouse: I never use a mouse anymore ever since I have a mac with a trackpad. I even switched the magic mouse when I had an iMac with the magic trackpad. Never use a mouse once on my Macbooks, except when I was running Windows.
External drive + charging: If you need these to be attached to your Macbook at all times, then get a Macbook Air/Pro.

You're a minimalist, but need to have an external drive and mouse dangling around? Well, I guess to each of his own.

 

[FNH15]

The OP has misinterpreted the purpose of the MacBook. The MacBook is meant for ultra portability above all else. I have many friends in university who switched from an older Pro or Air to a MacBook because of its lightweight and silent design, and its impressive battery life.
The mouse issue is easily rectified with a Bluetooth mouse, the external drive situation by the USB C hub Apple sells. I know many people with that exact setup.
The OP would be better suited with a 13 inch Pro.

 

[deepakvrao]

The OP has misinterpreted the purpose of the MacBook. The MacBook is meant for ultra portability above all else. I have many friends in university who switched from an older Pro or Air to a MacBook because of its lightweight and silent design, and its impressive battery life.
The mouse issue is easily rectified with a Bluetooth mouse, the external drive situation by the USB C hub Apple sells. I know many people with that exact setup.
The OP would be better suited with a 13 inch Pro.

Silent? My wife HATES my keyboard noise. That is my one and only grouse.

 

[FNH15]

Silent? My wife HATES my keyboard noise. That is my one and only grouse.

I was referring to the fanless design. It is certainly a more clicky sound than the older MBP keyboards, though.

 

[deepakvrao]

I was referring to the fanless design. It is certainly a more clicky sound than the older MBP keyboards, though.

I know, but what got into them to make a fanless silent computer with such a loud keyboard. Boggles the mind.

 

[waquzy]

I thought the single usb C port would be a downer as well, but actually when I need to transfer files(usually 10GB max) it only takes about 7-10minutes, so I don't really need all those ports after all... funny how sometimes you think about things that would bother you, end up being nothing at all. The 12inch MacBook is work of art imo, fanless, awesome speakers and super lightweight, the best laptop I have ever owned hands down, the one that comes closest was the 13inch XPS(9360) but Windows 10 ruined that experience, macOS is just so much superior in anyway IMO, so much easier and simpler, if that makes sense.

The only con I can think of, is the lag/stutter when playing 4K youtube videos, but I suppose that is to be expected with the core M processor, I have the 2015 base model. Other than that the MacBook can handle everything I want...

 

[t.portis]

I don't think having to plug in mouse + external storage + whatever else whenever you sit down is minimalistic.

Whenever I sit down with my MacBook, I just plug one cable into my display, which carries power, 4K signal, and USB hub. And my keyboard and mouse are wireless. That's minimalistic.

I 100% agree with this. I plug in one cable for my MacBook Pro, that's it. Everything else is either bluetooth or hidden. I hated it when there were three or four things running out of my 2015 MacBook Pro.

My only reason for switching to the MacBook Pro was that I just needed a little more screen real estate (I'm middle aged).