MP 7,1 Would you get a Mac Pro or iMac Pro today at discounted prices?

[rondocap]

Ok, so both the iMac Pro and 2019 Mac Pro are facing the future Apple Silicon change, and neither seems to be a necessarily great buy right now.

but...let’s play a game here. I do own both - but what if you were currently in the market for a pro Apple machine, and needed it now.

let’s assume slightly discounted or open box prices on base models. Let’s call it $5500 for the Mac Pro, and $3500 for iMac Pro, prices you can find new or open box ones for now.

tough choice, I want to know what you guys think if you HAD to buy today between these two.

here are my thoughts:

1. at 3500, no doubt the base iMac Pro is better - 5k screen, 10 core vs Mac Pro 8 core, Vega 56 vs 580x, etc. also 5k monitor

2. having said that, I never keep the base model without upgrades, and the Mac Pro is much more expandable easily. Add new gpus internally, easier cpu and ram upgrade, 1400w psu, etc. but at a bigger cost.

it’s actually not an easy decision if you’re targeting these two IMO, while you get more upfront with the iMac Pro, and with difficulty it is uogradable, the Mac Pro has a higher capability limit, easier upgrades, but at more cost - which long term might be better.

but what if we’re all switching to a crazy superior, unannounced M1x iMac Pro or Mac Pro anyway if Apple reveals something next level? Then the Mac Pro may be less relevany if all that expandable hardware is outclassed, but this is a big what if.

 

[Phil77354]

Both are certainly terrific machines, but I would not purchase either at this point in time, even if more substantially discounted.

iMac Pro - given that we can reasonably expect further iMac models in the near future (with much more power as well as the possibility of larger monitor size, even a matching separate monitor as was rumored not too long ago although not in any recent reports), I would not purchase this model now.

Mac Pro - a more difficult decision given the speculation that it may continue to use Intel chips, but this is an expensive purchase even with any likely discount. It also is unclear how soon a new Mac Pro will be announced and/or available, so if I had a current urgent need for this level of performance then it could make sense. I would purchase only if I had no other option and could not wait another 6 months or even a year or longer in order for the next generation Mac Pro to be clear.

 

[th0masp]

If I had the need for such a machine for an upcoming project and it were clear at the start that the machine would be paying for itself that way then I'd pick the iMac Pro (and sell it afterwards - its no long-term use with a builtin monitor to me).

I would not 'invest' considering their transition, so the MP would be a no-go here.

That being said - have you seen the recent iMac reveal? Based on that I do not see a desktop performance revolution in the making. Maybe the MP will get 32 GB RAM?

 

[randy85]

I'd get a discounted Mac Pro if I had a use for it over the next 12 months. Judging by how people on this forum like to tinker with Mac Pros from 2008, I don't think you'd have a problem re-selling it down the road (if you wanted to).

I bought mine in May last year and honestly 12 months feels like an age in what I've achieved with it.

I think you'd need to be realistic about its resell price though and factor that in. They're not exactly commodities that hold or gain value over time. It's flawed thinking to think of the 'investment' in that sense. The investment is the work it allows you to achieve IMO.

 

[th0masp]

They're not exactly commodities that hold or gain value over time. It's flawed thinking to think of the 'investment' in that sense. The investment is the work it allows you to achieve IMO.

If that's directed at me - I used the term because the base MP configuration as referred to in the OP is hardly worth picking the system over the iMP IMO. That only makes sense if you are ready to spend more on upgrades. Even then the MP is not going to obliterate the iMP for work unless you are willing to spend in the price range of at least a low-end car.

Both these machines have no future however so better to not sink more than absolutely needed into it.

 

[randy85]

If that's directed at me - I used the term because the base MP configuration as referred to in the OP is hardly worth picking the system over the iMP IMO. That only makes sense if you are ready to spend more on upgrades. Even then the MP is not going to obliterate the iMP for work unless you are willing to spend in the price range of at least a low-end car.

Both these machines have no future however so better to not sink more than absolutely needed into it.

It wasn't aimed at anyone in particular - apologies if it came off like that.

I agree it's probably not the time to go big on one of these. I think a discounted one could work though!

 

[goMac]

There's a lot of reasons to get a Mac Pro now _because_ of Apple Silicon. A lot of changes in Apple Silicon might not be great for the Mac Pro. And it might be why Apple is thinking about keeping the Mac Pro on Intel for a bit. For example:

- Apple Silicon so far does not support swappable GPUs.
- It certainly doesn't support AMD or Nvidia GPUs.
- (It won't even do external GPU)
- It's not compatible with some external monitors
- No swappable RAM so far
- No swappable internal storage so far

If any of the above are important to you, it's too early to make any bets on Apple Silicon. If you wait you may not like what you end up with, and you might be waiting a long time for Apple to take care of the above issues.

So don't take gambles. Get what works today. Upgradable GPUs and off the shelf GPUs are important to me. I'll stick with an Intel Mac Pro and wait to see what shakes out on the Apple Silicon side. I'll probably own an Apple Silicon Mac desktop someday, but it's way too early to be calling the Intel Mac Pro dead.

Today's rumor is that the Apple Silicon MacBook Pros are going to be delayed into next year. The responsible component wasn't identified, but who knows how long the rest of the line will show up. As it stands the 2019 Intel MacBook Pro is going to have to hold out for yet another year. Apple's track record on reliably shipping new Apple Silicon Macs has not been great.

 

[Schismz]

I you need a Mac Pro, now is a good time to buy one.
If you want a Mac Pro and can afford it, now is a good time to buy one.
If you're spending someone else's money, it's always a good time to get a Mac Pro.
If none of the above apply and you don't need a Mac Pro... you see where I'm going with this ;-)

The future is uncertain and the end is always near. No, wait, somebody else already said that.

The Mac Pro is a tiny rounding error in Apple's profitability and while Apple Silicon is absolutely awesome and going to take over the world... in my humble opinion it's going to take a minute. I am highly receptive to being pleasantly surprised at how nimbly and quickly Apple overcomes the myriad obstacles in their path to actualizing an Apple Silicon Mac Pro, but I'm not holding my breath quite yet.

Kinda expecting "half height" The Cube is back!!1@! "expandable" Mac Pro bandaid similar to iMac Pro stopgap solution, while waiting for Godot, or Apple engineers as the case may be, to get around to Making it Go ... but, deep down inside, I have this feeling they may follow their legacy roadmap for Mac Pro development and just Do Nothing for half a decade except maybe release new MPX modules to indicate they're still serious about pro customers and it's not trapped in limbo again.

Having said all that I'm pretty sure that whatever they release as their new high end iMac will be significantly better and faster at everything the iMac Pro was doing, and come with a much better XDR-style screen. And that one won't take half a decade to show up, I'm thinking it'll be here pretty fast.

 

[jinnyman]

5500 for a baseline mac pro is too much in 2021. Hell no. Id buy one for 3500 max.

 

[vel0city]

After experiencing Apple Silicon, even just in the M1 Mini, it makes going back to a Xeon powered Mac feel like swimming through bricks. Despite the limitations of the M1 Mini I would rather work around them than go back to a Xeon (or any Intel based Mac) - it would feel like a huge step back.

I'm only keeping my Mac Pro running for GPU rendering. I run it headless and either use Team Rendering in C4D over my network or take over it with Screen Sharing. If Apple don't release a Mac capable of GPU rendering this year I'll just replace the Mac Pro with a PC as a rendering workstation. M1 Mac for doing work, PC for rendering. Easy decision for me.

Edit: just posted on the homepage here https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...e-cores-128-core-option-for-graphics.2296635/

 

[mikas]

That is a very interesting rumor. Depending of how thermals scale etc I would expect really good workstation class performance out of those figures. Still a rumor though. And if those specs appear in the market to be bought actually, let us say something like Dec 2023, there will certainly be some stiff competition too at that time towards the Mx series.

And then there is the price of it obviously.
That configuration is not gonna be the "starting at" machine but up to as it was written in the article. What about memory. Is it soldered in as I suspect. If there is going to be configurable memory to pro levels, that would level the price out of reach for certain. At least with current apple RAM costs. 200$ for 8 GB. 128 GB would cost 3200$, 256 would cost 6400$.

I must say it is pretty exciting times still. I might end up with a PC too, because nobody knows if that rumor is even closely true, neither how long it's gonna take to get one if it appears to be somewhat reliable.

This is not all entirely because of Apple secrecy only nowadays. Seems like lack of wafers is almost gonna cause the extinction of mankind. Who would have thought.

Sorry, back onTopic and an answer: It depends. Maybe a Mac Pro 2019 with a decent discount I would buy. iMac Pro - not easily, only if it would be really cheap. There's nothing for a user to upgrade in that thing.

 

[goMac]

It also sounds like the Apple Silicon Mac Pro will “feature” a non upgradable, single GPU design which is really a step back.

 

[th0masp]

iMac Pro - not easily, only if it would be really cheap. There's nothing for a user to upgrade in that thing.

Actually I believe you can upgrade the RAM. Looks to be a procedure with the potential to entertain you for a whole afternoon, too.

 

[mikas]

Yes it would. And of course ram slots have to be on the wrong side of the motherboard to make it all just perfect.
iMac Pro RAM

 

[OkiRun]

The question going around since 2019. Why did Apple not bring the hobbist and serious college student Mac Pro engineered and priced to this group as the 7,1?

The answer has always been in the face. The 7,1 isn't that machine and wasn't meant to be that machine. This is the purpose of the M2 8,1 which should be half the entry price, modular, and with some upgradability above the iMac. It you want all the engineering and whistle and bells of the 7,1 you are going to have to pay for them.

Apple probably thought this group could hold on for a couple of years, complaining about the 7,1 meanwhile, and then be blow away and worth the wait for the 8,1.

I wonder if those who waited will complain that the 8,1 doesn't do all the things the 7,1 is capable of in a production sense? Or they will be happy with price, tower design, OS, and speed of the 8,1 with some upgrade potential for 3.5K?

 

[DFP1989]

- Apple Silicon so far does not support swappable GPUs.
- It certainly doesn't support AMD or Nvidia GPUs.
- (It won't even do external GPU)
- It's not compatible with some external monitors
- No swappable RAM so far
- No swappable internal storage so far

All of these things could change. The M1 was literally the first Apple Silicon chip in a Mac, there is still plenty of room for them to expand to cover use cases outside the current scope. I hope we learn more about what we can expect going forward at WWDC.

 

[randy85]

I bet the AS Mac Pro will still be expensive, but won't be configurable to quite the crazy upper price range of the 7.1.

The pricing seems to work so that upgrading the spec on a cheaper product puts you within range of the one above. At least when it was all Intel, you could spec out a MBP, which would put you in range of an entry-level iMac Pro, which if you upgraded put you in range of a Mac Pro. I don't see them voluntarily levelling the price of the upper-mid and top tier products.

With the way things are headed, the M2 (or whatever they're called) will easily be good enough for 90% of users and the Mac Pro will remain as a high-performance beast for those with deep pockets.

 

[Phil77354]

All of these things could change. The M1 was literally the first Apple Silicon chip in a Mac, there is still plenty of room for them to expand to cover use cases outside the current scope. I hope we learn more about what we can expect going forward at WWDC.

Exactly. I was about to post the same thing myself, you beat me to it!

 

[fritzzzzzz]

Ok, so both the iMac Pro and 2019 Mac Pro are facing the future Apple Silicon change, and neither seems to be a necessarily great buy right now.

but...let’s play a game here. I do own both - but what if you were currently in the market for a pro Apple machine, and needed it now.

let’s assume slightly discounted or open box prices on base models. Let’s call it $5500 for the Mac Pro, and $3500 for iMac Pro, prices you can find new or open box ones for now.

tough choice, I want to know what you guys think if you HAD to buy today between these two.

here are my thoughts:

1. at 3500, no doubt the base iMac Pro is better - 5k screen, 10 core vs Mac Pro 8 core, Vega 56 vs 580x, etc. also 5k monitor

2. having said that, I never keep the base model without upgrades, and the Mac Pro is much more expandable easily. Add new gpus internally, easier cpu and ram upgrade, 1400w psu, etc. but at a bigger cost.

it’s actually not an easy decision if you’re targeting these two IMO, while you get more upfront with the iMac Pro, and with difficulty it is uogradable, the Mac Pro has a higher capability limit, easier upgrades, but at more cost - which long term might be better.

but what if we’re all switching to a crazy superior, unannounced M1x iMac Pro or Mac Pro anyway if Apple reveals something next level? Then the Mac Pro may be less relevany if all that expandable hardware is outclassed, but this is a big what if.

your whole statement is so funny. my point is can you find a US$3,500 base Mac Pro ? after all, 7,1 is still on apple site the current latest model. this is a ******** statement if you cannot find a US$ 3,500 one. having said that, if I found a US$ 350 base Mac Pro, then blah blah blah

 

[DFP1989]

your whole statement is so funny. my point is can you find a US$3,500 base Mac Pro ? after all, 7,1 is still on apple site the current latest model. this is a ******** statement if you cannot find a US$ 3,500 one. having said that, if I found a US$ 350 base Mac Pro, then blah blah blah

Exactly, and the point is if you need a Mac Pro now for whatever reason, it doesn't really matter what is on the horizon 1/12/24 mths down the line.

If a Mac Pro is what you require, clearly the project has some money behind it, and the machine is far from worthless when you are finished with it, so the actual cost (after factoring in tax deductions, resale and the money earned by having the machine) is quite different to what you pay upfront.

My Mac Pro has covered its cost many times over, it was an investment that ultimately didn't cost me money, it made me money.

When I bought it, could I have done my job with a less powerful machine? Yes, but it would have taken me far longer to complete many of the projects I have used it for, and as they say time is money.

 

[rondocap]

your whole statement is so funny. my point is can you find a US$3,500 base Mac Pro ? after all, 7,1 is still on apple site the current latest model. this is a ******** statement if you cannot find a US$ 3,500 one. having said that, if I found a US$ 350 base Mac Pro, then blah blah blah

I said 3500 iMac Pro, not Mac Pro. I said 5500 Mac Pro

 

[Macbookprodude]

2 words - HELL NO !