All iPads Would you like a MacBook/iPad hybrid?

[palpatine]

I think the Yoga is an ideal device from an ergo-metric standpoint. My cMBP is a tank (relative), my iPad 3 too heavy to hold comfortably while relaxing in content consumption mode; and the cover does not allow for the perfect viewing angle.

I want simplicity in my computing environment; one device, one OS, no external peripherals (e.g., keyboard).

The Yoga has all the above, and with the 360 degree hinge, I would be able to consume content comfortably in any position (even laying flat on my back in bed with the Yoga on my belly).

If only that were true

It is huge (13"). It weighs more than the 13" MBA. It weighs almost 3x more than the iPad. It has only an 8 hour battery (compared to 10 with the iPad). It seems like a Frankenstein device that is a horrible compromise in every respect.

But, maybe I'm wrong! That is just my impression, and it reminds me how great it is not to have everything stuck together. I love having the keyboard separate, so I can read when I want, or work when I want, getting the best of both worlds.

 

[skaertus]

Yes but will still be 'Windows' or as I like to think about it 'Mutton dressed as lamb'. Not to mention Pro hardware will be comparable to traditional laptops both in weight and cost. Whilst the planet wants devices to get thinner and lighter, Microsoft misses the point completely and goes for heavy and bigger....duh!!

Well, the fact that it runs Windows 8 is what allows it to be as full-featured as a regular laptop.

According to these news (http://microsoft-news.com/surface-pro-tablet-priced-in-germany-close-to-1000/), the Surface Pro will weight about 900g (around 2 lbs), which, although heavier than an iPad, will be lighter than a 11" MacBook Air.

It is also apparently cheaper than most ultrabooks, as the base version will cost 870 euros in Germany (and will probably be significantly cheaper in the U.S.).

The advantage of the Surface Pro is being able to perform all tasks a regular laptop can, including those requiring multi-tasking. It will also be able to run Microsoft Office and all other software that runs on Windows. The iPad, while thinner and lighter than the Surface Pro, is a much simpler device and not half as powerful and full-featured.

 

[stephewc]

I am so underwhelmed. Even glowing reviews of the Yoga point out that the tablet experience isn't so great. I have no interest in it at all I am afraid. I really think the Surface, iPad + external keyboard, or Asus Transformer are much more interesting. I don't want to compromise my tablet experience.

If only that were true

It is huge (13"). It weighs more than the 13" MBA. It weighs almost 3x more than the iPad. It has only an 8 hour battery (compared to 10 with the iPad). It seems like a Frankenstein device that is a horrible compromise in every respect.

But, maybe I'm wrong! That is just my impression, and it reminds me how great it is not to have everything stuck together. I love having the keyboard separate, so I can read when I want, or work when I want, getting the best of both worlds.

From my perspective, I look at the Yoga (Or Yoga-like devices) as a Ultrabook with the intentions of replacing my MBP. I agree if you buy it solely expecting a tablet experience you will be disappointed given the non-detachable keyboard and extra heft. The reason I see the potential though is that Windows is trying to get all laptops/ultrabooks in the future to have touch capabilities to add an extra dimension to the user experience.

Rather than being limited to keyboard/mouse/touchpad, users can now swipe+touch around an environment designed for it. I know all-in-one PCs have implemented touch years ago on Windows 7, but from my brief experience with those devices you can tell that the Windows environment was not designed with touch in mind at the time.

If you think about it this way, would it not be nice to have the option to play a game like Fruit Ninja (with touch) on both your iPad as well as your Macbook? If you were in class/traveling for work and had to limit yourself to one device, most people would probably opt for the laptop that is able to get real work done.

I still keep my other tablets around because they have their use as a consumption device. Tablets that you pointed out (Surface, iPad, Transformer) are still the best at what they do which is allowing the users to consume media in a light and portable package.

 

[skaertus]

If only that were true

It is huge (13"). It weighs more than the 13" MBA. It weighs almost 3x more than the iPad. It has only an 8 hour battery (compared to 10 with the iPad). It seems like a Frankenstein device that is a horrible compromise in every respect.

But, maybe I'm wrong! That is just my impression, and it reminds me how great it is not to have everything stuck together. I love having the keyboard separate, so I can read when I want, or work when I want, getting the best of both worlds.

Well, I guess one size doesn't fit all.

Some will prefer a thin and ligtht tablet, with all its simplicity and capability to perform simple tasks quickly and flawlessly.

Others will prefer the full power of a desktop replacement laptop, which cannot be matched by a tablet.

And others will prefer the convenience of a convertible or hybrid, which is not as powerful as a laptop, nor as thin and light as a tablet, but stands in the middle.

 

[palpatine]

From my perspective, I look at the Yoga (Or Yoga-like devices) as a Ultrabook with the intentions of replacing my MBP.

In that case, it provides a great extra option, and I agree that it is an improvement over "just" an MBP.

I agree if you buy it solely expecting a tablet experience you will be disappointed given the non-detachable keyboard and extra heft. The reason I see the potential though is that Windows is trying to get all laptops/ultrabooks in the future to have touch capabilities to add an extra dimension to the user experience.

I really don't like having to touch my iPad screen while I work (fortunately, I get to avoid this with keyboard shortcuts) and this was probably one of the more disappointing aspects of W8. I'll give it a try, of course, but I think I'll end up preferring the Apple trackpad.

If you think about it this way, would it not be nice to have the option to play a game like Fruit Ninja (with touch) on both your iPad as well as your Macbook? If you were in class/traveling for work and had to limit yourself to one device, most people would probably opt for the laptop that is able to get real work done.

True. I generally use the iPad when I am traveling, but it requires a lot of forethought, and is only possible because of my particular workflow. I think most people would find it very aggravating.

I still keep my other tablets around because they have their use as a consumption device. Tablets that you pointed out (Surface, iPad, Transformer) are still the best at what they do which is allowing the users to consume media in a light and portable package.

Tablets might well be "best" at consuming media, but the iPad is actually quite good at creating it as well. In general, though, I have to say that I am more in love with the form factor (a thin, lightweight, gorgeous display on a flat tablet) than iOS. If Windows or Android could make a decent competitor (the Google Nexus 10 is basically there, but lacks a good word processor app), then I would switch in a second, because simple things like proprietary connectors, lack of a file system, and so forth are very frustrating at times. I really hate that Apple has deliberately hobbled their devices like this. I could forgive technical limitations, but not limitations by design. *sigh* But, I work with what I've got.

Well, I guess one size doesn't fit all.

True. I feel like the hybrid MBP / MBA + iPad would be this one-size-fits-all philosophy. But, if Apple wants to make this, and leaves us with the iPad and the MBP / MBA line, then I'll be fine with it I doubt that will happen, though.

 

[Ubele]

The hybrid I'd like to see would be an iPad that functions more or less like it does now when it's by itself, but that you can plug into a Thunderbolt Display that has attached and/or wireless peripherals (external hard drives, scanner, printer, keyboard, mouse, etc.) and thus use it like you currently can a docked laptop computer. In docked mode, the iPad would function as either a second monitor or a control surface. Obviously, this would require a more powerful ARM processor and an iOS/OS X hybrid, but that seems to be the direction Apple is headed in, anyway.

These days, I use my iPad far more than I do my Mac, but there are still some things for which my Mac and a big monitor and external keyboard are better suited: Logic, Aperture, Adobe Photoshop Elements, and anything that requires a lot of typing or benefits from a lot of screen real estate. I'd love having to own only one computing device, for which I'd probably buy the "ultimate" prosumer model. Imagine being to work on projects on a big monitor in OS X fashion when you need to, and then continue to work on them away from your desk in iOS fashion.

I think, though, that the laptop/tablet hybrid that the OP speaks of would be a great choice for some people.

 

[VFC]

Yoga .....
It is huge (13"). It weighs more than the 13" MBA. It weighs almost 3x more than the iPad. It has only an 8 hour battery (compared to 10 with the iPad). It seems like a Frankenstein device that is a horrible compromise in every respect.

But, maybe I'm wrong! That is just my impression, and it reminds me how great it is not to have everything stuck together. I love having the keyboard separate, so I can read when I want, or work when I want, getting the best of both worlds.

Let's face it, even the iPad is too heavy to hold for any length of time. What I always wanted for my iPad is someway to float it in air so I can view it comfortably.

The Yoga (even if it weighed 5 lbs) can be placed on a surface (even my belly) with the keyboard folded under it and the screen can be adjusted to ANY angle.

Now I could watch NetFlix on my cMBP in bed, but I would have to tuck the keyboard under my chin; with my chin resting on the track pad.

 

[palpatine]

Let's face it, even the iPad is too heavy to hold for any length of time. What I always wanted for my iPad is someway to float it in air so I can view it comfortably.

The Yoga (even if it weighed 5 lbs) can be placed on a surface (even my belly) with the keyboard folded under it and the screen can be adjusted to ANY angle.

Now I could watch NetFlix on my cMBP in bed, but I would have to tuck the keyboard under my chin; with my chin resting on the track pad.

LOL. That is a use-case! I agree that the Yoga would be a superior bedmate

The iPad isn't as good in bed as it could be. Honestly, I think it has nothing to do with weight. The iPod hurts to hold over your head. Why? Blood. It also requires a surprising amount of strain on the wrists to hold something small above you.

It's not a big deal for me. I sit up, prop it up on the covers, and read without holding it anyhow. But, laying down flat there is no comfortable way to use the iPad, and falling asleep while using it (you know you've done it too!) is really painful. You could knock out a tooth like that I think I just gave Yoga their ad campaign!

 

[yorkslad]

The advantage of the Surface Pro is being able to perform all tasks a regular laptop can, including those requiring multi-tasking. It will also be able to run Microsoft Office and all other software that runs on Windows. The iPad, while thinner and lighter than the Surface Pro, is a much simpler device and not half as powerful and full-featured.

Thank god, most of us now realise there is more to life than Windows and Microsoft Office....welcome to 2012

 

[Night Spring]

LOL. That is a use-case! I agree that the Yoga would be a superior bedmate

The iPad isn't as good in bed as it could be. Honestly, I think it has nothing to do with weight. The iPod hurts to hold over your head. Why? Blood. It also requires a surprising amount of strain on the wrists to hold something small above you.

It's not a big deal for me. I sit up, prop it up on the covers, and read without holding it anyhow. But, laying down flat there is no comfortable way to use the iPad, and falling asleep while using it (you know you've done it too!) is really painful. You could knock out a tooth like that I think I just gave Yoga their ad campaign!

But the Yoga still doesn't float above your head. If you balance it on your belly while lying flat on bed, you'd need to lift your head to see the screen. That'll give you a clink in your neck!

Oh, and I find that an iPad with folded smart cover can be balanced on my lap or belly, and I only need one hand to keep it upright.

As for holding anything above your head, even an iPhone quickly gets too heavy in that position.

BTW, somebody said that a hybrid is good because they are always thinking whether they should take their laptop or tablet with them, and with a hybrid they won't have to pick one. But I think if you have an ultralight notebook like the Air, and a super light tablet, like the mini, then taking both tablet and laptop would weigh the same as one hybrid.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

I did a few years ago but they are two different devices & would not want the extra weight.

 

[palpatine]

But the Yoga still doesn't float above your head. If you balance it on your belly while lying flat on bed, you'd need to lift your head to see the screen. That'll give you a clink in your neck!

Oh, and I find that an iPad with folded smart cover can be balanced on my lap or belly, and I only need one hand to keep it upright.

As for holding anything above your head, even an iPhone quickly gets too heavy in that position.

I agree. They do make clumsy devices to get the thing above your head, but there isn't an elegant solution yet. I somehow doubt that a 3.5 pound weight (the Yoga) on your chest is the best we can do

 

[Uofmtiger]

I voted yes because I see that some people want it. However, I tried the Surface RT and I don't like it. The Pro will be heavier and have fans, so I don't think I will like it, either.

However, I am not ruling out the idea that Apple can do it better. Not sure this type of device is for me, though. I have no issues having two devices for different purposes...even if there is some overlap. I have tried netbooks and the screen was too small for real work despite being able to run Excel and Word. The tablet hybrid seems like it would have similar issues even if it has a touchscreen.

 

[Thegolem]

iPad just needs a proper file system and microSD slot. Problem solved.

and a windows like feature esp. to enable us to organise apps and files/folders so we can move between them without having to swipe along or

 

[skaertus]

Thank god, most of us now realise there is more to life than Windows and Microsoft Office....welcome to 2012

While that is true, I still depend on Microsoft Office for work and for compatibility with everybody else... I can't just drop it (or the costs of dropping it would far exceed any benefits).

 

[RenoG]

The Surface misses the mark, but the Surface Pro is around the corner. It will feature an Intel processor capable enough of handling laptop tasks. It will have its flaws, but will be closer to what is expected from a hybrid.

Yes it will be closer on the laptop side only, but even then it wont be what is expected from a REAL and TRUE hybrid.
The question still stands, why would I chose it over my laptop/ultrabook I have sitting on my dresser? Because it fails as a tablet why bother with it even if its a kick butt performer, its still a redundant device because I already have a kick butt laptop. Its either meet or excel at everything or its nothing.

If you're going to be a car and an airplane you sure the heck better be equally compelling at both, if not you're just a spectical at best.

 

[stephewc]

I voted yes because I see that some people want it. However, I tried the Surface RT and I don't like it. The Pro will be heavier and have fans, so I don't think I will like it, either.

However, I am not ruling out the idea that Apple can do it better. Not sure this type of device is for me, though. I have no issues having two devices for different purposes...even if there is some overlap. I have tried netbooks and the screen was too small for real work despite being able to run Excel and Word. The tablet hybrid seems like it would have similar issues even if it has a touchscreen.

You have to keep in mind that Microsoft is mostly a software company at heart. Yes the Surface RT and Pro are Microsoft products, but other companies are allowed to take the OS and create their own products.

Between the Surface RT (ARM-based) and Pro (Intel Core i5), there are also other variations such as the Samsung ATIV.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/samsung-ativ-smart-pc

It is based on Intel's own x86 based SOCs so it can run the regular Windows 8 software as well as provide enough grunt to run legacy applications smoothly. Like the ARM based processors, it will not need a fan and you can keep the slim profile.

It is really up in the air and up to the consumer to dictate if a product like the upcoming hybrids tablet/PCs from Microsoft will be successful. Whether Apple wants to make their own variation is still unknown since it could cannibalize sales of their existing products (Macbook/iPads). I do see a lot of interesting products coming out lately from all companies alike and am interested in seeing the new stuff to come in the future.

 

[palpatine]

Yes it will be closer on the laptop side only, but even then it wont be what is expected from a REAL and TRUE hybrid.
The question still stands, why would I chose it over my laptop/ultrabook I have sitting on my dresser? Because it fails as a tablet why bother with it even if its a kick butt performer, its still a redundant device because I already have a kick butt laptop. Its either better than everything or its nothing.

If you're going to be a car and an airplane you sure the heck better be equally compelling at both, if not you're just a spectical at best.

Well-said. This is exactly how I feel. I haven't seen a single compelling product yet along these lines. The best devices so far have been the Nexus 10 + keyboard, iPad 4 + keyboard, and Transformer + keyboard. All three have operating systems that are much less capable than what you would get on a laptop, though. At some point, I think we'll get to the point where many people can use iOS and Android to get most of their work done, and once we get there, OSX will be a niche system for the office or professional users with specific needs. I doubt we'll ever see a hybrid from Apple, or a compelling one from Windows either.

You never know, of course, but I think the boat car / plane car analogies are accurate. I suppose it is the same reason we don't eat all of our meals with sporks either.

 

[skaertus]

I agree. They do make clumsy devices to get the thing above your head, but there isn't an elegant solution yet. I somehow doubt that a 3.5 pound weight (the Yoga) on your chest is the best we can do

Well, I sincerely hope the Yoga is really good. I learned today that it will start shipping here in Brazil in November, and the base model will cost a whooping US$ 4,500.

 

[palpatine]

Well, I sincerely hope the Yoga is really good. I learned today that it will start shipping here in Brazil in November, and the base model will cost a whooping US$ 4,500.

LOL. I guess you will never see one in the wild then. It is much less expensive here. I think it will do well, but as someone else here said, as a competitor to other clamshells. Another problem is that 5 hours is fine for a laptop, but not so great for a tablet, so I just don't see this replacing two devices in my life.

These technical limitations may explain why we don't see Apple hybrids yet.

 

[zhenya]

I don't see devices like the Yoga being anything other than a curiosity. 3.5 lbs and 5 hour battery life? That still a laptop no matter what the hinges do.

With all if these Windows devices, my question is what the standby life is. Windows is traditionally terrible in this respect - ie. most laptops have only 24 hours or so. That won't fly for a tablet replacement.

 

[skaertus]

LOL. I guess you will never see one in the wild then. It is much less expensive here. I think it will do well, but as someone else here said, as a competitor to other clamshells. Another problem is that 5 hours is fine for a laptop, but not so great for a tablet, so I just don't see this replacing two devices in my life.

I actually saw one in a BestBuy store when I was in the U.S. last week. Good, but not great. In fact, here in Brazil it will cost more than a 13" retina MacBook Pro (which runs for US$ 3,500) and almost as much as the 15" retina MacBook Pro (US$ 5,000).

These technical limitations may explain why we don't see Apple hybrids yet.

Next year the technical limitations will be severely reduced as Intel's Haswell is supposed to be much more energy efficient than Ivy Bridge.

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I don't see devices like the Yoga being anything other than a curiosity. 3.5 lbs and 5 hour battery life? That still a laptop no matter what the hinges do.

With all if these Windows devices, my question is what the standby life is. Windows is traditionally terrible in this respect - ie. most laptops have only 24 hours or so. That won't fly for a tablet replacement.

Intel is promising a 10-day standby life for Haswell. Let's see.

 

[stephewc]

I don't see devices like the Yoga being anything other than a curiosity. 3.5 lbs and 5 hour battery life? That still a laptop no matter what the hinges do.

With all if these Windows devices, my question is what the standby life is. Windows is traditionally terrible in this respect - ie. most laptops have only 24 hours or so. That won't fly for a tablet replacement.

The Yoga is still supposed to be an Ultrabook but with the added ability to be more flexible due to its hinges. It is not supposed to replace a tablet. It just implements a touch screen that gives it a tablet feel, but I think people still buy it primarily as a Ultrabook with the added use of touch.

Since companies like Microsoft are trying to implement Windows 8 on so many new devices (Surface, ultrabooks/laptops, PCs) at once, it seems the definition of a hybrid might be a little vague.

I think the better example of an actual hybrid device are:

-Samsung ATIV Smart PC 500T
-Acer Iconia W510
-Asus VivoTab
-Dell Latitude 10
-HP Envy X2
-Lenovo ThinkPad 2

Windows 8's Metro (tiles) interface is basically designed to be used with touch-enabled device to give you a tablet experience, but at the same time allow you the capabilities to run productivity apps if needed. If you took a Netbook (the pre-tablet craze), created a detachable keyboard, added connectivity (USB, HDMI out, MicroSD slot, etc.), added a touch screen, added a touch-enabled OS and a SoC with enough power for x86 based productivity apps (Word, Excel, Photoshop, etc.), I think this is what a hybrid should be.

Some of the above devices are based on Intel x86 SoC (Z2760 - Clover Trail). Intel has a claim of 3 weeks standby time with Connected Standby (Basically device in standby mode while still being able to receive system / app updates via Wifi) and roughly 10 hrs of actual use time. It's supposed to be the Intel's competing SoCs to Samsung's Exynos 5 (ARM), Apples A5/6 (ARM), Nvidia Tegra 3 (ARM), Qualcomm S4 (ARM). But since it is x86 based rather than ARM, it is able to run many legacy applications that have already been created.

 

[isephmusic]

I actually think about this a lot. I bought a 15 inch MacBook and to me that's a lot of money. No laptop should ever cost this amounts. But it's so useful and portable. For me people need mobile workstations and then their media device that's not a phone. It used to be an iPod or psp/gameboy but now as we grow we want a tablet that can do what laptops can. And tablets are just an intermediate phase. They will soon die out once any laptop can have the screen detach Yet remain light, have a USB and micro SD and even have its own ten hour battery life. Were not far from it and I don't want to buy anything just yet

 

[zhenya]

And tablets are just an intermediate phase. They will soon die out once any laptop can have the screen detach Yet remain light, have a USB and micro SD and even have its own ten hour battery life. Were not far from it and I don't want to buy anything just yet

Not likely given that tablets have converged to sub 10" and laptops are almost entirely 13" and greater. You can't converge such a size discrepancy.