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Would you like usb3 with your MBP?
- Thread starter toke lahti
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The more of think of what Lightpeak could become, the more exciting it actually is. Depending on how well it's received/adopted, we could see it on TVs, set-top boxes, game consoles and, as mentioned, keyboards, monitors, cameras, usb hubs. As you said, your future computer might just have a series of Lightpeak plugs and nothing else. The cable you use for your iPod could be the same you use to hook-up your cell phone to a projector or the same one you use to connect your keyboard to your computer.
The major issue (that I see at least) is that companies make a lot of money on cables (have you seen how many Xbox 360 connection cables there are at a best buy?) and wouldn't want to easily give up on that knowing that a consumer could buy 5 cables and never have to buy any again to replace those, but that's more for a discussion on Lightpeak, not on why usb3 should be used.
See this is where I disagree. Now this is all just speculation based on reading the same tech blogs that everyone else reads so take it for what it's worth, but I think this IS Apple striving for excellence. Sure they COULD adopt USB 3, or EC (fully), but what I'm thinking is that they eventually want Lightpeak to be the standard connection and are holding out for that to be ready rather than increasing potential dependence on technology they're planning on getting rid of anyways. I *hope* that in 3-4 years Lightpeak is well on its way to becoming the default connector in-part because Apple has thrown 100% support behind by including it on all of their computers.
To me, that would be the excellence in the DNA that you refer to.
I was replying to want who talked about 2010.
There are already mobos on sale with usb3 and now hard drives.
I guess that most of retail mobos introduced next year will have usb3.
It does not matter that intel won't integrate usb3 to their chipsets in 2010. Mobo manufacturers just buy small and cheap additional chips from other vendors.
Light Peak is still in very unknown stage. Not even single product has been announced. No idea how much it will cost. Anyway it is far more complex technology compared to usb, so it might never be adoped by masses.
And even a small introduction of LP to market will be at least half year later than usb3.
Usb3 ports will have real life speed of about 2Gbit/s or even a bit higher so for mass market it will do most of what LP can do a lot cheaper. Since there are already displays driven by usb2, it will be more common to daisy chain keyboard+mouse+display+speakers+webcam+etc.
I really like the idea of LP, but I guess that even if it's 10 times cheaper than fibre channel, it will be 10 times more expensive than usb3 and might have the fate of fibre channel (=only for professional use & small adoption keeps price high).
1. Adoption is dictated by Dell/HP/Acer Etc. Mobo companies like MSi and Gigabyte have no adoption power.
2. Guess who has the most influence on these top laptop companies. INTEL.
3. Intel will NOT adopt USB in 2010. It will instead focus on Light Peak, effectively ending USB3's chances in the mainstream market.
4. 2Gbps is puny compared to 10Gbps.
5. No one knows what LP would cost. Since it is not intended for profit, it will probably not be that far off.
I cannot understand why anyone would NOT want USB 3.0...it will be backwards compatible so there is no practical reason not to use it if it's available. Computers are going to have USB ports for a long, long time so might as well have the best version possible. Some people act like it's either or...
Not excited about <different> NOT want
Not feeling the urge for <different> NOT want
Not caring when choosing what computer to buy <different> NOT want
Not delaying the buying of my next computer to wait for it <different> NOT want
etc.
I think the meaning of the thread was "is the lack of USB 3.0 on current and almost certainly 2010 MBPs IMPORTANT to you?".
Those mobo companies have became major whole laptop/desktop manufacturers in last few years. They produce more units than Apple.
But do you really think that Dell or HP will not adopt usb3 let's say H1 2010?
Why would they skip it?
Yep, but it's not the dictator. So far intel is still selling its chips to mobo makers that already use usb3.
Like when intel chose RIMM?
Yep, still 2Gbps is enough for consumers for quite some years.
Let's hope so. There has been no cheap optical commnication it IT industry, but toslink has been quite cheap in EC from the beginning.
No....it's not that simple....LP allows far more than the mere "8gbps MORE than USB"....it's not a matter of "2Gbps are enough"....LP is a MULTI-PURPOSE protocol-agnostic "highway" where you can put everything you want....whereas USB 3.0 is....USB, just "bigger".
BTW, Intel stated that in the next years they will pump LP up to 100Gbps.
Actually, for the mass market, it is that simple.
Uservice usb is "gadget-agnostic" and mass markets don't dig deeper.
If it works, it's enough.
I've discussed a bit about LP when it was announced:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/793609/
so there's technically nothing new to me and the interest for me is not technical but how it will impact the markets.
My guess is that usb3 will be a marketing slogan for IT just like megapixels for cameras. Techically savvy people know that megapixels don't tell about quality, but 95% of consumers don't.
Usb3 chips will get very cheap very fast. After that manufacturers can put multiple chips to their higher grade models, so then you can give one whole pipe to display, second one to hard drives, third pipe to rest, etc.
I believe that for xmas sale 2010 90% of gadgets (that will benefit from speed, not mouse & keyboard) will have usb3. It will be so easy to market: "copy your photos from camera in instant", "printer takes your 20Mpx photo in 2 seconds" and so on.
Now when people buy computer they know to ask if it has wifi, bluetooth, dvd-burner and hdmi. Next year they will ask for usb3.
If LP makes to the market it will propably have the fate of fw. Only small minority needs the benefits of fw and because of low market penetration chips & ports remain expensive.
Actually the most used benefit with fw is time critical streaming with audio and usb has these same specs, but they never implemented these. They might implement them with usb3, so it might make fw useless. Nobody cares about cpu load anymore, if usb uses a bit more, there's plenty of power even in cell phones today.
Usb3 might pretty well became the only port in computers. Once again money matters. If you can get 4 contollers and 16 ports for half the price of one LP port, consumers choose to have 16 "good enough" ports. Then they buy handful of dongles they use with vga, hdmi, dvi, dp, ethernet, (µ)sd-card, etc. Or a hub that have these. MBA will benefit from this very much. If Apple adopts LP, there might be cheap MBA with usb3 and expensive one with LP.
Anyway, I'd like to buy soon a MBP to be used at least next 5 years. The problem is that every time Apple introduces new model it takes away features.
They took away matte screen, firewire and express card. Matte screen and firewire came back, but how about express card?
I will need usb3 or LP in the next 5 years, so taking away expandability from MBP, Apple has halted my buying intensions.
And will this game go on? Next year MBP will have matte screen, fw, ec, but not dvd? What are they taking away next?
i'm quite happy with my late 08 MBP i have express card, FW800 and a removable battery plus dual GFX cards for only £1100
I am a PC guy, I build PC's on a regular basis (about 3 or 4 a month)
But I am a Mac User myself.
I just built a PC yesterday with the Core i7 860 (LGA 1156, 2.8GHz) and a Gigabyte Mobo with the Intel P55 Chipset. The Motherboard included two USB 3.0 ports. We decided (My self and the buyer) that USB 3 was important because He wants this computer to last him quite some time...
That being said I agree. The MacBook Pro is a long term investment. Multi-Year.
I want USB 3 on the upcoming MBP's just to future-proof my $2400 investment im about to buy.
Make sense?
But I am a Mac User myself.
I just built a PC yesterday with the Core i7 860 (LGA 1156, 2.8GHz) and a Gigabyte Mobo with the Intel P55 Chipset. The Motherboard included two USB 3.0 ports. We decided (My self and the buyer) that USB 3 was important because He wants this computer to last him quite some time...
That being said I agree. The MacBook Pro is a long term investment. Multi-Year.
I want USB 3 on the upcoming MBP's just to future-proof my $2400 investment im about to buy.
Make sense?
It makes sense if USB3 is adopted as widely as USB2 was. If Lightpeak becomes more popular than the future-proofing of including USB3 would be a waste - that's the problem with "future-proofing", unless you can see into the future, it's next to impossible to be future-proof... we're all just guessing at what we'll be using our computer for/what we'll need on our computer in the future... but yes, assuming that USB3 does succeed (which it very well might), then what you said makes sense.
USB3 will be as widely accepted as USB2 was. Because its backwards compatible, its a no brainer.
USB is everywhere. It blew up. Every device seems to be a USB/USB2 device. Its easy, therefore the choice to incorporate USB3 is easy.
Not saying it will be in this gen MBP, but it should and will no doubt be in future Mac's.
Firewire didn't gain mass adoption due to licensing fees and the lack of influence from the companies who developed it.
LP is backed by the largest processor company in the world. It's already been displayed in public with an Apple motherboard. It is going to appear in Apple laptops next year, probably as the first brand to carry LP.
Your statistic of 90% of gadgets is ridiculous when Intel chipsets will not be on board till at least 2011. That means most netbooks will not use USB3 until Intel adopts.
Intel and Apple's vision of replacing multiple ports to one will most likely come true. It makes logical sense for the industry.
I would like both light peak and usb 3.0 on my macbook pro.
Seeing as how neither of them is out* yet, the point is relatively moot. Should Apple just have refused releasing new equipment from the time USB 3.0 was announced until it was available to put in their machines? Is that what you are suggesting? Sounds like an awesome idea, you should probably work for apple /sarcasm
*Yea I'm aware that there are currently a few devices available now with USB 3.0 but it is definitely not accepted yet.
Seeing as how neither of them is out* yet, the point is relatively moot. Should Apple just have refused releasing new equipment from the time USB 3.0 was announced until it was available to put in their machines? Is that what you are suggesting? Sounds like an awesome idea, you should probably work for apple /sarcasm
*Yea I'm aware that there are currently a few devices available now with USB 3.0 but it is definitely not accepted yet.
All manufacturers are fully capable of using other vendor's chips than intel.
Just checked from ifixit's teardown that Apple uses LSI's fw chip in 13" MBP.
If they can use other vendors for fw why not for usb3?
And by gadgets I mean peripherals. How many of those are using intel chipsets?
Do you believe that Apple will remove all usb ports just by replacing them with LP port?
I don't think they can do that. That would mean that 100% of MB users would need dongles all the time.
And when they keep usb next to LP port, they can also upgrade it to usb3.
No, like said before, meaning of thread is that,
Are you happy with Apple removing "future proofness" from MBPs by removing EC?
With EC it does not matter what is the next tech, you can always have adapter to it.
80% of computer's ecological footprint comes from manufacturing & shipping. Can Apple honestly claim to be so Green, when they are artificially try to shorten their products life?
Taking away features and putting them back again have same effect.
Maybe next year they will introduce triple mirror display and add a pound of glass all over the laptop, since it is so recyclable...
And after that it is time for "MBP as light as MBA" when they just remove all glass from the laptop and tell that their researchers have discovered amazing thing: putting less glass to a laptop it is actually Greener...
If you can create an adapter from USB3 to EC, could you create from to go from USB3 to FW? Is USB3 faster than FW?
To me, leaving customer without options and years behind, for waitng for some waporware that might become reality some day, is not excellence at all.
Apple has skipped both eSata & blu-ray, when rest of IT industry has adopted them. This has caused trouble for lots of people (including me).
If first LP macs come out in next month AND we will have reasonably priced hubs and dongles pretty soon after, it would be fine.
I just don't see that happen.
But maybe they -hide&seek- re-introduce EC, so you can add LP afterwards.
Usb3 is faster than fw800. Check wikipedia.
But fw has better reliability with streaming (audio, video) than usb2.
In the future these enhancings can also be incorporated to usb3.
Still unknown if they really are implemented.
To hell with USB3. What a useless development. USB2 is more than enough for everything that should be USB attached.
For bulk data transfer i.e. Hard Drives, optical drives, and other storage devices, you should be using Firewire (or eSata).
I'd like to see 1394c aka Firewire 1600 become mainstream. Firewire 800 is good, but the newest 2.5" drives are now exceeding 80 MB/s in sequential throughput.
For bulk data transfer i.e. Hard Drives, optical drives, and other storage devices, you should be using Firewire (or eSata).
I'd like to see 1394c aka Firewire 1600 become mainstream. Firewire 800 is good, but the newest 2.5" drives are now exceeding 80 MB/s in sequential throughput.