Wow. Apple Maps is a disaster.

[firestarter]

It seems like you are rooting against Apple. What is the point of that?

Yes, I'm so anti-Apple that I've paid them over $40k over the last 20 years, and I'm a contributor to the 'net's largest Apple rumour site.

The survey proves a lot. It proves that, in North America (probably in the US), it's not a big deal.

I would bet that in other places the numbers are much worse. But I still think that they won't be as bad as people think. Why is it so hard for some to accept that, while Maps may be horrible for them, there are lots of other people who don't have a problem with it?

And how hard is it for you to accept that the loss of functionality for those who had it before is a lot more significant than some 3D eye candy for those lucky enough to be in an accurate-map area?

So you go from fully functional Google maps to fully functional Apple maps and you can't see what the big deal is. How very sympathetic of you.

Mapping is a large part of the functionality of a modern phone... and I was planning to upgrade to the iPhone 5. Take that away, and the device becomes too-flawed-to-use.

If I didn't care about Apple and iOS then I'd just buy Android and have done with it. Why would I waste time making a noise about it, if I didn't want Apple to be pressured into making a fix available?

If I was one of the unlucky few(?), I would be happy that the bad press is pushing Apple to fix things. If the bad press was proportional to the people who were upset, Apple might never get its maps fixed.

Make your mind up. Either it's good that people and the press are complaining because it pushes Apple to do the right thing, or you're trying to persuade me to shut up and stop 'rooting against Apple'.

What evidence do you have for your belief that the bad press is overblown? Non-US statistics please.

 

[Anuba]

"ChangeWave Research and 451 Research surveyed 4,270 North American consumers in September 2012"

The mapping is better in North America than anywhere else... and North America is only 1/3rd of Apple's iPhone market.

This survey proves nothing.

They're downright abysmal in large parts of Europe. The first thing I did with Maps was check out Manhattan, which of course was awesome and I was just about ready to give it two thumbs up when I started looking closer to home. A lot of the sat images are unbelievably bad placeholder material, black and white, some with the ground entirely covered in snow (useless of course and something I've never seen on Google unless I'm looking at freakin' glaciers.) And these POI from Yelp are even more US centric. Google Maps correctly reports every POI I've tried in my hometown here in Sweden. Apple's maps on the other hand advises me that the nearest Italian restaurant is 40 miles away (there are 3 in my neighborhood alone, Google lists them all) and the nearest gas station is in Finland (I'm looking at the nearest gas station through my window, and I'm 200 miles from the Finnish border...)

 

[cyks]

What evidence do you have for your belief that the bad press is overblown? Non-US statistics please.

Even if we were to look at just their US statistics (which is of a relatively small sample size and likely taken before most fully used the maps), nearly 10% find the maps a problem. For something like maps, where perfect data is all that matters, that is an unbelievably HUGE number.

It's scary knowing that the rest of the world has it much, much worse.

 

[xofruitcake]

People don't forget that quickly.

'Antennagate' is still brought up and that was a quick and easy fix (where Apple still bribed their customers).
The maps have hindered phones for millions of people all over the world and we've simply been told to deal with it and wait. Even if/ when the maps are fixed, there has been some serious damage done to overall faith and trust in Apple.

Add in the scratches, bugs, and numerous other issues turning up in the iPhone 5, and I wouldn't be surprised if the 5S sales do take a major hit.

Interesting thought.. Why wouldn't or shouldn't the sale hit occur now. After all Iphone 5 is the offending smartphone (and so will the Ipod touch 5 and Ipad mini). Antennagate does not affect the sales of 4s nor the 5... The evidence does not seem to support your thesis....

 

[xofruitcake]

And how hard is it for you to accept that the loss of functionality for those who had it before is a lot more significant than some 3D eye candy for those lucky enough to be in an accurate-map area?


If I didn't care about Apple and iOS then I'd just buy Android and have done with it. Why would I waste time making a noise about it, if I didn't want Apple to be pressured into making a fix available?



Make your mind up. Either it's good that people and the press are complaining because it pushes Apple to do the right thing, or you're trying to persuade me to shut up and stop 'rooting against Apple'.

.

Heh heh, I am curious what did you do with your specific problem after you loss Google map in IOS 6 (you do have a specific problem that you are working through, right?)? It is bizarre to think that Apple or Tim Cook or Scott Fostall or the map team does not know that they have a serious development issue in the IOS map and need user like you and I to remind them that. Did you see the news that Apple is trying to hire engineer who had worked in Google map to help fix the problem or that Apple ask their employee in Apple store to help out? What are other things that you think they should have done now? Did you bother to check that there is at least a batch of fixes coming out in the last few days already????

This thread is up to 3000+ posts. How many more posts do we need to say that Apple screwed up in the map rollout? Whatever financial fallout of that decision in term of loss sales, Apple shareholder are paying for it already (yes I am one of them 8-((). If you really care about Apple as you said, the really interesting thing to watch is how Apple react now. What action are they taking to resolve the issue? How fast the fix are putting out? How is user reaction with the alternative solution? May be helping out in reporting error that you see???

 

[jarofclay73]

Yay! A good part of Honolulu is now in 3-D!

 

[faroZ06]

A survey showed that 90% of users didn't think it was bad. Apple has improved the maps, and they were actually fine in many areas to start with. Too bad if it still sucks for you

 

[firestarter]

Heh heh, I am curious what did you do with your specific problem after you loss Google map in IOS 6 (you do have a specific problem that you are working through, right?)?

All my devices are on 5.1.1

My problem is that I can't upgrade, and if I buy new hardware I get the broken maps service.

It is bizarre to think that Apple or Tim Cook or Scott Fostall or the map team does not know that they have a serious development issue in the IOS map and need user like you and I to remind them that.

If you assume that they knew, then you have to accept that Apple are happy to screw-over their customers for a few more bucks.

An even better reason to complain, I would have thought.

Did you see the news that Apple is trying to hire engineer who had worked in Google map to help fix the problem or that Apple ask their employee in Apple store to help out? What are other things that you think they should have done now? Did you bother to check that there is at least a batch of fixes coming out in the last few days already????

Call me when they've implemented public transport and street view.

This thread is up to 3000+ posts. How many more posts do we need to say that Apple screwed up in the map rollout?

It's nice that you decided to stop by and boost the post count by one more.

Whatever financial fallout of that decision in term of loss sales, Apple shareholder are paying for it already (yes I am one of them 8-(().

Why sit by and make up excuses for them then? Seems pretty lame, if you've actually lost money on this.

If you really care about Apple as you said, the really interesting thing to watch is how Apple react now. What action are they taking to resolve the issue? How fast the fix are putting out? How is user reaction with the alternative solution? May be helping out in reporting error that you see???

Bad data is only one issue. Dropping public transport and streetview isn't on their roadmap... and no amount of reporting will fix that. They need to be pressurised to back down, and allow a choice of mapping vendors in the OS.

Apple has a lot of fans. If they released some web based tools to view and correct their maps, people like me would happily submit corrections. As it is, I'm not downgrading my iPads and phone to iOS6, just so that I can help Apple out.

 

[cynics]

I'm getting more annoyed with them. Several times now I typed in an address (number street name, city, state) and it will point me somewhere totally incorrect. I'll have to use just the road name then find the address myself. Any half ass GPS will at least point you in the right direction not some other road across town.

Here is an example. Note the house number and road name.

Here is the result, correct house number and road still in the search.

Obviously not the right road. I use a GPS a lot for work so I tried to use my phone exclusively for a couple days. Didn't go to well lol

 

[dv8r]

I have no doubt in my mind that the map roll out is a disaster and there are a lot of unhappy executive and BOD. There is no reason to present the Apple map in the launch events as it was given the state of the software. However, my comment is focus on the future. Are you thinking that Apple cannot improve the map to a usable state (i.e. POI are accurately placed in the correct location, address are correct, turn by turn are correct).

As I said before - yes, I don't think they will be able to get the current incarnation of Apple Maps working in the long run. The back-end will have to be re-written and most of the app will be changed completely - everyone knowledgeable in the area has said that there are no easy fixes to this.

I worked in software development for 20+ years and no matter how tough a problem is, engineer can make progress in time. The only discussion in my mind is how fast the progress will be.

You can always improve something over time - being in software development You should know that there are other considerations in this, such as complexity, knowledge, serviceability, scalability, etc. In the case of Apple Maps, the cost of starting over might be substantially lower than fixing the mess they have now. If Forstall can't manage QA or App development at all then, at least, let's hope he can do math.

This is the low point of Apple map and I have no doubt that a lot of folk will use other map solution and be happy for it. But location based app like passport will starting bringing those users back when they work properly in a few months. What is a user going to do? if they ticket is in passport and it tie into Apple map, should a user abandon the ticket just because there were ticked off by this Apple map fiasco?

Everything that ties into Apple Maps will have the same reduced functionality. Passbook won't know the local cinema or will pop op with a Target coupon on the wrong places and stuff like that. Passbook won't save the day before the general positioning/POI's is working. Would You blindly trust Passbook to "know" when You are at Your gate or in the Cinema? In the current state I wouldn't. This could be the big annoyance in the long run - users having mediocre experiences with almost all of the location based solutions on the iPhone for quite a while.

As a shareholer, it was worse than a disaster.. It show corporate infighting between Fostall and Tim Cook. But to say the map will continue to be a disaster in the next 3 months, 6 months or 12 months is just non-sense. The real discussion should be how far can Apple map go in term of accuracy and function by those check point.

As a shareholder myself - it isn't a disaster at all. Apple went from 422 to 629 in one year, whether or not this is a disaster is something we will see in about 1 or 2 years.

You seem to be very keen on them being able to fix Maps within 3-9 months, I have asked before and will ask again - what are You basing Your assumptions on? For reference: Maps (and the issues in the app) have been known for 4 months - without there being any real progress. But do tell, dying to know...

 

[Brazuca]

Yes, I'm so anti-Apple that I've paid them over $40k over the last 20 years, and I'm a contributor to the 'net's largest Apple rumour site.



And how hard is it for you to accept that the loss of functionality for those who had it before is a lot more significant than some 3D eye candy for those lucky enough to be in an accurate-map area?

So you go from fully functional Google maps to fully functional Apple maps and you can't see what the big deal is. How very sympathetic of you.

Mapping is a large part of the functionality of a modern phone... and I was planning to upgrade to the iPhone 5. Take that away, and the device becomes too-flawed-to-use.

If I didn't care about Apple and iOS then I'd just buy Android and have done with it. Why would I waste time making a noise about it, if I didn't want Apple to be pressured into making a fix available?



Make your mind up. Either it's good that people and the press are complaining because it pushes Apple to do the right thing, or you're trying to persuade me to shut up and stop 'rooting against Apple'.

What evidence do you have for your belief that the bad press is overblown? Non-US statistics please.

But you are not just making noise. You are downright whining. The problems re clear. It is also clear that they are vastly different in different countries. And they are very different for different users. But it is also clear, based on evidence, that in the US, customers are largely not sharing your problems, either because they don't see them, or they don't care. You seem intent on dismissing this. I want to know why. You have no evidence that, in NA this is a huge problem, besides the PR disaster and lots of conjecture.

There isn't anyone saying that apple maps doesn't have many problems for some. But as we suspected, that is overblown. I'm sorry you are having problems, which I'm sure you have tested on some other unit since you don't have an iOS 6 device. But why can't you accept that for almost everyone else, it's just not an issue.

You insist on looking at the very worst examples. And you keep bringing up strawmen: nobody is saying that there are no issues in other countries. Why you insist on evidence of this is beyond me.

Since you only want to look at the very worst, don't have an iOS 6 device, quickly dismiss empirical evidence that doesn't support your opinion, and seem incapable of imagining that for many, this is a huge improvement, I really do question your motives. I think you are taking this personal.

I'm also sorry you lost transit into the built in app. But the difference in convenience is marginal (1 extra touch) and in accuracy and coverage it is debatable. Lots of people gained turn by turn. Win some lose some. At least recognize this. Why do you keep thinking that Apple is hurting the user? It is obvious that they thought that third parties can do better than google. I share that opinion. As a contributor, I thought you would at least respect the strategy, even if you didn't think it would succeed.

 

[PrometheusGeek]

Yet another survey demonstrating that the problems are limited to the experiences of a minority: http://www.imore.com/despite-some-issues-demand-iphone-5-all-time-high

More than 4,000 surveyed this time, for those complaining that the other surveys had too small samplings.

Maps issues hasn't affected demand, and:

"When it comes to Maps, the survey asked iPhone 5 and iOS 6 users if they had found any porblems in their use of Apple Maps, with 90% of respondents saying that they did not have any problems. In fact, only 3% of respondents reported their Maps experience as a very big problem. When asking those unlikely to buy the iPhone 5 for the reason why, 0% said it was because of reports of problems with Maps."

Again, the over-entitled minority is overblowing the issue, making so much noise that everyone believes its a far bigger problem than it really is. Typical overreaction.

 

[cynics]

I like how I can post pictures of ridiculous problems (see my last post above) and they are ignored. Of course I'm in a minority, I actually use sat nav 8-10 hours a day 5-6 days a week. All my friends don't have ANY trouble with maps/nav, nevermind they don't actually use the app except once or twice. I don't know I guess expecting maps to find a street address is asking a bit much.

 

[cyks]

Yet another survey demonstrating that the problems are limited to the experiences of a minority:

No. That's the same exact survey that was posted already:

Case in point: "Study: Apple Maps not affecting iPhone 5 demand":

http://www.tuaw.com/2012/10/12/study-apple-maps-not-affecting-iphone-5-demand/
​

My favorite part of the survey was this reading that it took place between Sept 17-26th... beginning before either the iPhone 5 or iOS 6 were released and ending before the media storm that followed.

Of course, only those only those with an iPhone 5 or iOS 6 were asked the questions about the maps, but we have no idea how many of those surveyed answered those questions.​

 

[PrometheusGeek]

No. That's the same exact survey that was posted already:



My favorite part of the survey was this reading that it took place between Sept 17-26th... beginning before either the iPhone 5 or iOS 6 were released and ending before the media storm that followed.

Of course, only those only those with an iPhone 5 or iOS 6 were asked the questions about the maps, but we have no idea how many of those surveyed answered those questions.

Ya, I won't rehash all of the dialogue we had on this over here: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1467295/

Suffice it to say, your suggestion is, in fact inaccurate. Their survey clearly states that they surveyed actual iPhone 5 and iOS 6 users of a large enough sample group to conclude that, "Simply put, Apple Maps is not considered a problem by the overwhelming majority of users."

Even if only 10% of the original group of 4,270 were iPhone 5/iOS 6 users, that would be a sample group of 427 people, which is by no means statistically insignificant. Major political polls (like the Rsamussen presidential tracking poll) commonly use sample groups of 500 respondents to represent all likely US voters, with a margin of error of +/- 4%. We all pay attention to those polls. In this case, it is quite likely that a much larger group than 500 was surveyed, 90% of whom had no problems with maps, and only 3% of whom had significant problems.

You all can check out that other thread for the objective data if you want.

 

[PhoneandPad]

Samsung advert appeared in the UK Times this morning

"You always know where you are with Samsung"

...showing the screen full of a Google map accurately showing a meeting location in London

 

[Heb 7:4]

Ya, I won't rehash all of the dialogue we had on this over here: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1467295/

Suffice it to say, your suggestion is, in fact inaccurate. Their survey clearly states that they surveyed actual iPhone 5 and iOS 6 users of a large enough sample group to conclude that, "Simply put, Apple Maps is not considered a problem by the overwhelming majority of users."

Even if only 10% of the original group of 4,270 were iPhone 5/iOS 6 users, that would be a sample group of 427 people, which is by no means statistically insignificant. Major political polls (like the Rsamussen presidential tracking poll) commonly use sample groups of 500 respondents to represent all likely US voters, with a margin of error of +/- 4%. We all pay attention to those polls. In this case, it is quite likely that a much larger group than 500 was surveyed, 90% of whom had no problems with maps, and only 3% of whom had significant problems.

You all can check out that other thread for the objective data if you want.

You think 427 Americans, some of whom may have only bought the phone/upgraded that day, a decent sample to declare apple maps a success?

Christ. That is desperate.

 

[Idefix]

You think 427 Americans, some of whom may have only bought the phone/upgraded that day, a decent sample to declare apple maps a success?

Christ. That is desperate.

American iPhone users with shiny new toys getting desperate?

Come on!

That's just business as usual!

 

[MozMan68]

American iPhone users with shiny new toys getting desperate?

Come on!

That's just business as usual!

Yet we're supposed to take the word of, what....10 MacRumours users who mostly live in the outskirts of England repeatedly posting to tell us that maps are a disaster?

People complained...rightfully so since it affected them...the press picked up on it hoping it would make a huge news story...Tim Cook apologized to shut them up....it did....

Outside of this forum or a website that tracks Apple closely, have you seen one major news story on maps either BEFORE or after Tim Cook issued the apology? It was pure genius to issue it when he did.

It's great for some....so so for most....and awful for some. It is and will continue to improve. They're great for me the ways use them...and I travel quite a bit...so I'm not complaining.

And despite what some are saying on here, I remember when Google Maps was issued and what crap it was. users submitted info (including 3D buildings) and it got much better.

 

[cyks]

Yet we're supposed to take the word of, what....10 MacRumours users who mostly live in the outskirts of England repeatedly posting to tell us that maps are a disaster?

It's far more than 10 and some of us live in the US.

Outside of this forum or a website that tracks Apple closely, have you seen one major news story on maps either BEFORE or after Tim Cook issued the apology?

Yes, plenty, both before and after... and they continue to do so. Is that even a challenge?

 

[Edslunch]

I like how I can post pictures of ridiculous problems (see my last post above) and they are ignored. Of course I'm in a minority, I actually use sat nav 8-10 hours a day 5-6 days a week. All my friends don't have ANY trouble with maps/nav, nevermind they don't actually use the app except once or twice. I don't know I guess expecting maps to find a street address is asking a bit much.

The reality is that the majority of people don't depend on maps or sat nav on a regular basis so this isn't a big deal to them. I could easily see a ninety percent 'no problems' response at the same time as the other ten percent find them useless. This is not to discount your situation - for heavy map users in areas that are messed up Maps is truly a disaster. But to Apple's business probably not so much.

 

[Idefix]

Yet we're supposed to take the word of, what....10 MacRumours users who mostly live in the outskirts of England repeatedly posting to tell us that maps are a disaster?

People complained...rightfully so since it affected them...the press picked up on it hoping it would make a huge news story...Tim Cook apologized to shut them up....it did....

Outside of this forum or a website that tracks Apple closely, have you seen one major news story on maps either BEFORE or after Tim Cook issued the apology? It was pure genius to issue it when he did.

It's great for some....so so for most....and awful for some. It is and will continue to improve. They're great for me the ways use them...and I travel quite a bit...so I'm not complaining.

And despite what some are saying on here, I remember when Google Maps was issued and what crap it was. users submitted info (including 3D buildings) and it got much better.

Here's a big story from David Pogue (is he a big enough source?)

David Pogue says of Apple Maps:

"In short, Maps is an appalling first release. It may be the most embarrassing, least usable piece of software Apple has ever unleashed."

And that story is on nytimes.com (is that a big enough website for you?)

 

[CSpackler]

I don't get all the fighting.

Just come to grips with the fact that maps have some issues to be addressed.

Hopefully Apple will take responsibility and work to improve on them. That's the best we can hope for. As a multi billion dollar company intent on maintaining their market share, I'm sure they are doing so.

Until then find another solution, or go Android.

 

[kas23]

People complained...rightfully so since it affected them...the press picked up on it hoping it would make a huge news story...Tim Cook apologized to shut them up....it did....

Outside of this forum or a website that tracks Apple closely, have you seen one major news story on maps either BEFORE or after Tim Cook issued the apology? It was pure genius to issue it when he did.

Here's s little rinky-dink website called CNN who did their own testing of Apple Maps. This video was released after Tim's apology.

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/3.0/video/tech/2012/09/21/tsr-todd-apples-map-app.cnn/index.xml?rv

Not flattering for Apple.

 

[MozMan68]

Here's s little rinky-dink website called CNN who did their own testing of Apple Maps. This video was released after Tim's apology.

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/3.0/video/tech/2012/09/21/tsr-todd-apples-map-app.cnn/index.xml?rv

Not flattering for Apple.

hmmm...the date in the link you provided is 9/21...

----------

Here's a big story from David Pogue (is he a big enough source?)

David Pogue says of Apple Maps:

"In short, Maps is an appalling first release. It may be the most embarrassing, least usable piece of software Apple has ever unleashed."

And that story is on nytimes.com (is that a big enough website for you?)

yep...NYT article, Sep-26....Tim Cook apology Sep-28...anyone else?