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I just wish the press wouldn't take his comments and then use the words "slams" or "vents" or things like that. Those are pretty harsh to use as the headline, and once you read the real comments, you see he isn't angrily slamming Apple as the headline is implying. People should want to read his comments because they are interesting, not because they're being misled by a headline.

I hate headlines. If they aren't over-sensationalized, then they are full of tortured grammar and willful ignorance. That goes for blogs, online magazines, "real" news. Especially real newspapers, who should know better, and should hold themselves to a higher standard.
The problem with real newspapers, is half the time they have a headline editor who creates/modifies the headlines, who had nothing to do with writing the article.
But I know why they're like that, it's to catch your eye so you read the article, and sometimes they drop grammar so they can fit the words in the column. So I understand it, but that doesn't mean that I have to like it. :)
 
Talk about negative slant

Wow, Digital Skunk seems to be quite the expert on what should have been in Apple products. Isn't the "locked into a better network" thing a little old? It's not like Apple waltzed down to the local Network-Mart and picked AT&T on a whim.

The iPhone is what it is, and maybe is not your ideal cell phone (an ideal which probably no single manufacturer offers currently, since you complain about every missing feature), but it is far from a poor choice of phone. It is better than just about every Motorola, with their menus from hell, etc.

I find it ironic that in a thread that has turned into decrying the sad state of shock journalism, you yourself are perpetuating that attitude by stating absolutes about how "bad" Apple's products are. That's what turns forums into the "muckraking, sleazy" places into which they often degenerate.
 
Wow, Digital Skunk seems to be quite the expert on what should have been in Apple products. Isn't the "locked into a better network" thing a little old? It's not like Apple waltzed down to the local Network-Mart and picked AT&T on a whim.

The iPhone is what it is, and maybe is not your ideal cell phone (an ideal which probably no single manufacturer offers currently, since you complain about every missing feature), but it is far from a poor choice of phone. It is better than just about every Motorola, with their menus from hell, etc.

I find it ironic that in a thread that has turned into decrying the sad state of shock journalism, you yourself are perpetuating that attitude by stating absolutes about how "bad" Apple's products are. That's what turns forums into the "muckraking, sleazy" places into which they often degenerate.

And you yourself are doing the same thing. In none of my statements did I ever mention that Apple's products were bad, or that I am an expert on anything other than what I think Apple should have done.

I am sorry that you got that impression, but since you're new here, just remember that just because someone is dissatisfied with the choices Apple makes, doesn't make them a complete hater of the products that Apple makes.

I think the iPhone has the best UI which I stated and you seems to over look to support your own negative twist on my comments.... but the missing features (the ones that I never mentioned but you stated that I complained about EVERY missing feature... to once again support your negative slant) make it a hard choice for users that may need to do that one thing or group of things.

The same goes for the Air, which has been stated over and over again.... but you're new here and haven't been around the forums as much, so I will let that slide.

So, given what I have said and what I write here, I am NOT perpetuating shock journalism or any journalism whatsoever and it's quite and insult to think that my opinion could be taken for journalism.... that kinda shows the lack of knowledge of the subject.... I am merely stating my opinion and as most users here do back it up with facts.

I still stand by my statement as the iPhone being a poor choice for a phone... I should add... as far as smart-phones go. Granted... Windows Mobile and Symbian have their downfalls, but they still manage to do more than the iPhone even with the added headaches of the OS.

As a member of the "real" press, I appreciate that at least some people are aware that there are usually big differences between working at a national newspaper and sitting around the house in your pajamas and blogging. (Or even doing stand-ups in front of fires for your local evening "news" broadcast, for that matter.) Unfortunately this lack of distinction among many readers/viewers, especially the younger ones, is causing some "real" news outlets to lower their standards to better compete.

Exactly and your welcome. I don't mind it when people say bad things about the media, or journalism and journalists... it's when they get confused and bunch all of them together to make a general distinction. These online blogs and magazines aren't journalism venues, albeit the uninformed and younger crowd use them as such. Any real journalist wouldn't use shock to promote a story that wasn't very shocking. If Woz bashed the iPhone so what, it's not big news, but they have to do something to make a geeky computer raised crowd read a otherwise boring story which those linked are.

As far as real news outlets lowering their standards..... AMEN... it's happening and it's sad. The photogs and head honchos at my paper were shocked to know that Youtube had better content than their site. Will they raise the bar...? Nope, to costly, and the penny pinchers don't care about anything other than making money.
 
Some of you may remember a MacRumors Page 2 article that linked to a site
where an iPhone and a 3G Blackjack were disassembled and laid side by side.
The 3G chipset was over twice the size as the iPhone's Edge chipset. In
addition, a test was conducted of talk time on the Blackjack with 3G turned on
and with 3G turned off. The talk-time with 3G turned off was twice that as with
3G turned on.
The size and power consumption of the 3G chipsets at the
time of iPhone's launch were indeed very real issues, Woz's comments notwithstanding.

Edit: Here's the article comparing chipset size and battery life (multi-page):

http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3036

Don't miss this from page 6 of the Anandtech article:

The Real Shocker: Impact of 3G on Talk Time
 
I didn't realize Jobs and Woz still talked. I wonder what their relationship is like. Obviously somewhat close if Jobs is calling Woz out on stuff.

Woz doesn't like to talk about their relationship. However, he has mentioned on a couple of TWiT episodes that Steve Jobs personally makes sure he is invited to every Apple event, both public and private.

Woz has also said that he prefers to remain an outsider with regards to Apple, buys at least a couple of every Apple product released through the Apple Store online and only remains on Apple's payroll for insurance purposes.
 
devils advocates?

Geez.

It makes me really question all other media websites. I want the whole transcripts now of what was said in the interview... not the tidbits the particular media group found interesting and could make it look completely one sided.
 
Some of you may remember a MacRumors Page 2 article that linked to a site
where an iPhone and a 3G Blackjack were disassembled and laid side by side.

So they compared one brand of phone with poor battery life, and an odd one, not one of the mainstream nokias or motorolas (and the motorolas are *thinner* than iphones), and extrapolated that to every phone everywhere.

My experience has been the same as woz in fact. I get the same or, normall, better battery life out of my 3g phones than the iphone. GPRS is just not fast enough to browse on so you're forced to use battery sucking wifi to browse, and that can kill an iphone in a couple of hours.. whereas browsing on 3G you'd last many times that.

The reason for no 3G was probably twofold - 1. the US market is still immature and doesn't have 3G yet (let alone HSPDA), and 2. its a lot cheaper to put together a 2G phone using old hardware than make a new phone using the latest tech, and profit margins are important - remember when the iphone was concieved Apple didn't know that it would succeed so they needed to keep costs down.
 
Fair enough. I'll give you that I fell into my own trap. Though I wouldn't say "new" necessarily applies to me, I guess I don't really get many points for being a multi-year lurker. I didn't mean to come off as heavy-handed as I did, and I do agree with you that the iPhone is missing some features as a smart-phone, and it is missing some things from my phone ideal as well.

Ultimately, I get tired of the discussions of what Woz said most recently, because it tends to be pretty boring but is always turned into a huge deal between complainers and praisers. There is nothing wrong with pointing out your opinions regarding how to make things better; I just got a negative vibe from your comments which added to my anti-Woz fallout frustration.

I agree with you that the iPhone could do more, and I sometimes forget to add "for me [the author]" to the end of comments on forums, because the iPhone is pretty close to everything I need out of a phone and I'm pretty happy with it.

I think it's kind of lame to hide behind the "you're new here" thing though, because, as I said, lurking doesn't get you points, but being a troll does (not saying you are one, just as an example of extremis), so that doesn't necessarily correlate to legitimacy of comments.
 
Fair enough. I'll give you that I fell into my own trap. Though I wouldn't say "new" necessarily applies to me, I guess I don't really get many points for being a multi-year lurker. I didn't mean to come off as heavy-handed as I did, and I do agree with you that the iPhone is missing some features as a smart-phone, and it is missing some things from my phone ideal as well.

Ultimately, I get tired of the discussions of what Woz said most recently, because it tends to be pretty boring but is always turned into a huge deal between complainers and praisers. There is nothing wrong with pointing out your opinions regarding how to make things better; I just got a negative vibe from your comments which added to my anti-Woz fallout frustration.

I agree with you that the iPhone could do more, and I sometimes forget to add "for me [the author]" to the end of comments on forums, because the iPhone is pretty close to everything I need out of a phone and I'm pretty happy with it.

I think it's kind of lame to hide behind the "you're new here" thing though, because, as I said, lurking doesn't get you points, but being a troll does (not saying you are one, just as an example of extremis), so that doesn't necessarily correlate to legitimacy of comments.

I tried pulling the lurker card once.... didn't work for me either ;)

I agree with you on the boredom of Woz.... much of what he and Jobs talk about outside of brand spanking new technology is boring, hence the reason for:

"Woz puts the smackdown on iPhone and calls Jobs a chump!"

I don't mind using the "you're new here" theme, I really don't use it as anything other than a "you won't do that after 300 posts, and two admin bands" kinda thing. I used to be a loud mouth on here, then I got silenced for two weeks, then friends like Multimedia and Sunohair got canned... so I try my best to keep things civil, apologize quickly, and use lots of :) :) :)

Either way... I love the iPhone I really do. The concept is wonderful, but once you get used to typing Word docs on the go or on the "john" and copying and pasting and the wicked fast EVDO you just shed a tear for what could have been. If I were on AT&T/Cingular's network when it came out I would have jumped on it despite it's shortcoming and jail broke it a long time ago.

But I can't pay $200 to leave Sprint, and then start over again with AT&T, and blah blah blah.... I have my reasons you have yours.... let's just shut up and enjoy whatever tech tools we have. :D :D :D
 
I read the Sydney Mornming Herald everyday and they hate apple. Any excuse to have a bad headline and they will take it.

The lack of 3g and the iphone in Australia is giving them so much ammunition too.

They love running stories on shonky ipod quality and the technologically out of date iphone and the contempt apple shows to Australia by giving us these supposedly wonder gadgets/services (like a good itunes music store, apple TV service, iphone ) years after everyone else has them. It's teh Aussie presses angle on apple at the moment and is unlikely to change until a 3G iphone is launched here.

However I reallly don't think apple cares about upsetting a few Australians!!
 
wow, that's the media for you. and probably ruining it for us, since he'll probably be more reluctant to talk next time.

but it's good to hear what he thinks on the products

I've always maintained that there is nothing dumber than a journalist. Even a parrot can accurately say what it has heard.
 
...
Technology marches on: if 3G a year ago would have been impractical in an iPhone, that doesn't mean the same problems continue this year. Jobs announced the 3G iPhone over a year ago--I don't think there's any secret agenda against 3G. I'm sure, though, that the decision to wait until a new generation of 3G chips could be discussed over many pages, and that Jobs's single sentence explanation was of course an oversimplification of the issues.

Or maybe, just maybe, it has to do with profit. :rolleyes:
 
It is interesting to see how the media spins things. If only everyone could realize that this happens with all the news. :rolleyes:
 
Some of you may remember a MacRumors Page 2 article that linked to a site
where an iPhone and a 3G Blackjack were disassembled and laid side by side.
The 3G chipset was over twice the size as the iPhone's Edge chipset. In
addition, a test was conducted of talk time on the Blackjack with 3G turned on
and with 3G turned off. The talk-time with 3G turned off was twice that as with
3G turned on.
The size and power consumption of the 3G chipsets at the
time of iPhone's launch were indeed very real issues, Woz's comments notwithstanding.

Edit: Here's the article comparing chipset size and battery life (multi-page):

http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3036

Don't miss this from page 6 of the Anandtech article:

The Real Shocker: Impact of 3G on Talk Time

RIGHT. All this 3G talk is useless. Jobs were right. If Apple release a 3G iPhone know is because they improved the battery and 3G chip.
 
Trust me..... it doesn't. Nine time out of ten it's sounds like a spin because it's not what you want to hear, so it must be fabricated or spun.
If you think that is the case then you are exactly the type of person they want watching the commercial-laden nightly news. It's morphed into an entertainment industry. Notice FNC's "No-Spin Zone"? I wonder why it has that name... Oh yeah, maybe because they spin the news? :rolleyes:

Apple has always survived overly dramatized news... This is no different.
 
If you think that is the case then you are exactly the type of person they want watching the commercial-laden nightly news. It's morphed into an entertainment industry. Notice FNC's "No-Spin Zone"? I wonder why it has that name... Oh yeah, maybe because they spin the news? :rolleyes:

Apple has always survived overly dramatized news... This is no different.

I am talking about real news. Not some overly conservative white guy who wants to bring slavery back and take away women's right to vote... or some overly liberal guy who wants gays to get married and raise children and for teenage mothers to get pregnant and just take care of it with abortions... those guys spin EVERYTHING TO THEIR OWN NEEDS why....?

Because they want those that agree with them to watch their show. The more they say what those people want to hear the more those people watch their usually extremist shows.

When you watch the REAL news, nine time out of ten you get the REAL news, and usually fair coverage. Watch the local news, and stick to watching both major networks.. FOX (conservative) and CNN (liberal) to get both sides of the story.

Anyone that says that the media is full of lies no matter where they go for it are crazy, because they usually end up using the same media to tell their own lies.
 
As a member of the "real" press, I appreciate that at least some people are aware that there are usually big differences between working at a national newspaper and sitting around the house in your pajamas and blogging. (Or even doing stand-ups in front of fires for your local evening "news" broadcast, for that matter.) Unfortunately this lack of distinction among many readers/viewers, especially the younger ones, is causing some "real" news outlets to lower their standards to better compete.

If this is true then in the end there isn't any difference between big news networks and the smaller ones. Personally I have zero respect for the news media in general. They don't care who they walk all over or whose lives they ruin in order to get their story. With that kind of an ethic they are no better than the criminals whose misdeeds they are so anxious to tell everyone about.
 
If this is true then in the end there isn't any difference between big news networks and the smaller ones. Personally I have zero respect for the news media in general. They don't care who they walk all over or whose lives they ruin in order to get their story. With that kind of an ethic they are no better than the criminals whose misdeeds they are so anxious to tell everyone about.

The bigger issue is that no one really studies journalism or journalism ethics. If they did comments like this won't go as far. Honestly everything that everyone will say about my comments and their feelings toward the media will be just opinions based on perception and lack of knowledge.

No reason to continue to defend the 1st Amendment and the oldest establishment in history here folks.... it's just going to be that Ad Hominem argument all over the place.
 
I think some fact checking is in order when you step down from the soap box. After that, you can move this discussion to another thread. It's neither here nor there.

I agree about the discussion, but I also think you should watch your tone and not comment or make poor assessments on a topic you don't wish to continue. Just don't say anything at all and tell us it should move, don't add your two cents then tell us to "shut up" please.

Try to make some sense.
 
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