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Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
BTW - Anyone who says things like, "it's the number of the beast", doesn't know what they are talking about. (That's a whole other discussion though!)

Yes, but don't you see that this technology could make implanting chips seem like no big deal. Of course little tracking tags aren't the mark of the beast. The Mark of the beast will be for consumerism and people will depend on it. No one can depend upon this. But, if this leads to the casual implanting of circuits in peoples bodies... That is what people are worried about. 😉


______________________________
If anyone would like to question me on this issue, feel free to go right ahead. I have heard some pretty ignorant comments regarding evolution vs. creation on this forum... 🙄
 
Originally posted by Jon the Heretic

Other uses: hiding these tags in cars and elsewhere could really foil a lot of would be thieves.

How would this foil a car thief? The way I understand it, if there's a tag in your car, you would get a page letting you know your car is leaving the parking lot.

As for there being a huge network of these 'base stations' covering the country in a blanket of security, I live 15 minutes ouside of San Francisco, and I still have trouble getting cell phone service in certain neighborhoods.
 
Originally posted by Flowbee
It's $25 to *manufacture* the tag. The retail price will probably be much higher. There is also the cost of the 'base station' and probably a subscription service of some kind (though that's just my speculation). Don't expect this to be a cheap way to keep track of your dog.

I was going to mention that, but then realized that they're probably going to sell the hardware with little to no profit margin, and make their money on recurring subscription fees.
 
Originally posted by MetallicPenguin
I'm not sure if we're talking about tags, or like under-skin tags, I guess it would be under the skin since it mentioned animals but still I really don't like the idea of putting tags in your children....mostly because I am one and I think it's quite unneeded.

Update: 'm pretty sure it's not because in the picture in the article the chip Woz is holding is pretty big

Uh no. You stick one in their backpack, on a keychain, on a belt. For a dog, you put it on their collar.
 
It just seems that there is very little innovation for this as a product from such an innovative person. I'm not doubting it's success as a product, or it's failure, depending on your view, just that it doesn't seem very "new" and "different" like a Segway, or a Megway, for that matter. 🙂

Seems like a lot of time and effort going into something with a relatively small market, that for YOUR initial cost of $25 or so seems small, but if you can only use it in a 4 city block area, then seems rather useless. Unless cities and townships, highway departments, infrastructure departments and the like all invest to put base stations everywhere. And that I doubt. So this is good for what again?
 
More to it

I don't think Woz has tipped his whole hand with this article. I'm sure there is going to be some "Killer App" for this system and don't think it involves dogs or kids.

To me the nest use of tech is to iron-out the snags and hangups of everyday life. To make is seem silly that there were times I would spend hours hunting for my keys.

I for one would like to see the tags integrated into my cell-phone, TiVo remote, and wallet. Then I could have a dynamic map of my apartment with locations for all my crap that I keep loosing.
 
Originally posted by Mudbug
Seems like a lot of time and effort going into something with a relatively small market, that for YOUR initial cost of $25 or so seems small, but if you can only use it in a 4 city block area, then seems rather useless. Unless cities and townships, highway departments, infrastructure departments and the like all invest to put base stations everywhere. And that I doubt. So this is good for what again?

Offices, hospitals, and schools, to name just a few?

("Mr. Smith isn't at his desk right now, but I see he's in conference room B. Would you like me to forward your call?")
 
Originally posted by Les Kern
I'll bet John Ashcroft's nipples are hard.
HA! I love it!

I'm thinking that if security issues mentioned above and cost issues are pleasing to consumers, this could be something that has some potential. Time will tell.
 
Originally posted by Les Kern
I'll bet John Ashcroft's nipples are hard.

Uh oh, better cover them up... *sigh*
Ashcroft: Those Statues have nudity!
Everyone else: so?
Ashcroft: I can't be seen in front of those!
Everyone else: What the hell are you on? Its a frikken Statue.
Ashcroft: Must install cameras everywhere!

Meh, it *sounds* good, but 2 Mile Radius... eh kinda weak and there has been alot of new tracking devices so I'm not sure how *this* one will do better then the rest.
 
Originally posted by IJ Reilly
Offices, hospitals, and schools, to name just a few?

("Mr. Smith isn't at his desk right now, but I see he's in conference room B. Would you like me to forward your call?")

That sounds like Star Trek.

"Computer, where is Mr. LaForge?"

"Mr. LaForge is in Engineering, B-Deck."

It will be interesting to see if the system can handle physical horizontal space (ie knowing the difference between rooms) and vertical space (knowing the difference between floors).

Of course, a nice little application on the bosses computer, with a tag planted in your ID badge and it about to become...

"Hey, what's theFly doing at Blarney's Pub at 9:30 in the morning?"

theFly
www.flyonthemac.com
Rumors You Can Bet On
 
ADSX has already been on this tack for a long time

check out "digital angel" by ADSX. they've been working publically on similar concepts for several years. they have a subdermal product called "verichip" for pets, possibly human children in the future, pending politics/regulation.

ADSX has been battered with all manner of grief from regulators on privacy issues and religious organizations claiming this concept is the mythical "mark of the beast" (666, revelations, etc...).

only difference with woznet seems the price. at present, the DA system is more expensive than $25/unit. but they've been at it for a long time, so they could probably release cheaper units to compete with woz.

http://www.digitalangelcorp.com/
 
That sounds like Star Trek

Ashcroft: "Computer, where is Mr. Kern?"
Computer: "Mr. Kern is at BushWatch.com"
Ashcroft: "Computer, kill him."

Jokes aside, these are the baby steps I speak of often that through time and our collective amnesia morph from "good idea!" to a tool of the evil.
 
I don't see how there would be a subscription for using this system any more than there is one for your home AirPort network. What service would you subscribe to? The tag is simply a GPS receiver that can transmit its location to a base station.

As for concerns about other people finding your kids or whatever, the article does say that the network can be encrypted. Read it thoroughly, people...

And it's not a "4-city-block" area--in Seattle, at least, I think a mile is about 20 blocks. Plus Woz says it's up to two miles, which would be 40 blocks--I'd say that's a pretty significant distance, especially for a kid on foot or even on a bike.

WM
 
Originally posted by IJ Reilly
("Mr. Smith isn't at his desk right now, but I see he's in conference room B. Would you like me to forward your call?")

More like: "Mr. Smith, we notice that you've been using the bathroom an average of 6 times daily. We feel this is excessive."

Or

"Mr. Smith, we notice that after work you go straight to Moe's Bar 3 blocks away and stay for an average of 2 hours. We don't think this is appropriate behavior for a member of our firm."
 
One part of my wife's job is running a summer camp for the town we live in. I could see it being very useful for keeping track of children while under her supervision. She also takes the kids, 50-100 at a time, on field trips to the zoo etc. I could see theme parks and zoos renting these out to such groups. It would prevent having to try and find children who leave the group or who can't make it back to the meeting place at the right time.

How many times have you heard "lost child" pages at Great Adventure?

Just my 2 bytes.

Craig
 
I see lots of useful things to do with this, none of which involve privacy issues--finding stuff around the house (if the tags are cheap enough), keeping track of school-owned equipment on a campus ("Where is that multimeter, anyway... oh, Room 252."), animal tracking, and so on.

The problem is, like an above poster said, the eventual potential for abuse is massive and frightening.

Let's say it takes off, and after the first "Amber" is brought home by a tag everybody runs out and gets their kids subdermally tagged, and the proliferation of base stations make the tracking range near-ubiquitous. Add to that things like tags in keys, jackets, and wallets, and eventually even if you don't have one implanted you're still carrying at least a couple around with you wherever you go.

Then Ashcroft, or some government agency ten years from now, decides that they'd like to start keeping an eye on people... bingo, the network is already established, and they don't even have to mark everyone with the number 666 (or, for those less religiously inclined, Big Brother's wet dream come true--monitoring without the vidscreen). You'd never even know when they started.

Of course, the technology exists and will only get better, cheaper, and smaller, so it's only a matter of time before it's essentially unavoidable if someone wants to abuse it, even if people don't take a liking to it. The only issue is how ready everyone is to deal with the implications.
 
Originally posted by theFly
It will be interesting to see if the system can handle physical horizontal space (ie knowing the difference between rooms) and vertical space (knowing the difference between floors).

A GPS signal can resolve horizontal space quite well (±3m without any post-processing), but is not as accurate in vertical space. Measuring vertical space (altitude) with GPS has the additional complication of dealing with the different Earth models used for things like terrestrial mapping.
 
I live in a rural area, and on farms and ranches this thing could be a godsend. Tracking animals is a pain in the rear, and being able to sort and track would be a great asset.

Also, think about what you could do this tracking and studying wildlife. The conservation aspects are fantastic.
 
Originally posted by Flowbee
More like: "Mr. Smith, we notice that you've been using the bathroom an average of 6 times daily. We feel this is excessive."

Or

"Mr. Smith, we notice that after work you go straight to Moe's Bar 3 blocks away and stay for an average of 2 hours. We don't think this is appropriate behavior for a member of our firm."

I think this has hit the privacy issue square on the head. It's not just that whoever the administrator of the system knows that you're in the building, but that they know where you are and should be able to track your time in places without too much effort. Sounds a lot like Big Brother to me. That is to say that I think Woz has probably thought through some of these concerns and is probably prepared to defend against them if they come up. Otherwise, I don't see development of this taking as long as it has.

As for the verticle space issue, I think that could be solved in a multi-floor building by having base stations on each floor, and having the station with the strongest signal send it's information as the commanded floor.

(OT) Post #300... well on my way...
 
Originally posted by Flowbee
How would this foil a car thief? The way I understand it, if there's a tag in your car, you would get a page letting you know your car is leaving the parking lot.

This requires a little imagination.

Example: A tagged car is essentially "bugged", meaning intermittently it will show up as it passes other base stations. This information could be very useful in forensics. To be useful, you have to assume the tag is not removed from the car. As base stations' coverage expands, do does the information gathered about the stolen property.

You might even be able to project a path to the chopshop where the car was broken up for parts just 1 hour after being stolen 🙂

The uses are quite large, but depend a great deal on the product being successful enough to have wide coverage area. A zero imagination mentality would mark the telegraph, telephone, satellite, cell phones, radio and TV as abject failures due to the inability to project beyond the notion coverage was almost nonexistent for these products when was first introduced.
 
Originally posted by Jon the Heretic
This requires a little imagination.

Very little imagination... the product you describe already exists. It's called LoJack:
http://www.lojack.com/foryou/early_warning.htm

The fact is, Woz's new product doesn't seem to solve any problems that aren't addressed by current technology... and doesn't seem to address privacy issues connected with its "imaginative" uses.

I hope he's got something up his sleeve, otherwise this just seems destined to flop.
 
Originally posted by Flowbee
"Mr. Smith, we notice that after work you go straight to Moe's Bar 3 blocks away and stay for an average of 2 hours. We don't think this is appropriate behavior for a member of our firm."

EXACTLY!
"We'll be glad to hire you, you just have to agree to carry this Palm IX with our tracking device... you know, so we can contact you easily."
(Later...."Upload: emloyeehistory.pdf to DOJ.gov, FBI.gov, CIA.gov)
Little steps........
 
Existing Technology

Sure, Woz isn't doing anything new.

But can he do it *cheaper* than anyone else?

Can he do it *less invasively* than anyone else?

The answer to these two questions will determine how well his products and services sell.

Jaedreth
 
Originally posted by Freg3000
A 1 to 2 mile radius is not that big. you would need a lot of base stations installed first before this might catch on. But once you get past that, there were a lot of things this is good for. I mean, how many things do you lose all the time? You keys, wallet, cell phone? Or how about more important things, like notebooks and children? Not groundbreaking in my book, but cool nonetheless.

I really don't think the resolution is good enough. You are probably dealing with football sized nuggets of space, if it is typical civilian GPS and there is no additional triangulation going on, If its your wallet, you know it is probably in your junky house somewhere, Hidden deep within one of those chunks of space it has never left. Nothing to track. Not a lot of help in finding.

If it is your dog... good luck... just because you know its location within a football field area of space doesn't mean you are going to be able to find it, although it will keep you in the right area, for its collar at least (these look to big to be implant chips).

About all it could be good for is popping on someones car, and seeing where they hang out. Privacy violation.
 
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