WTF Is Up With PayPal and Stupid Bidders?

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by MICHAELSD, Aug 18, 2008.

  1. MICHAELSD macrumors 68040

    MICHAELSD

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Location:
    NJ
    #1
    Today, I found a nice chargeback from PayPal for software I sold, and a $2.50 fee for the software from my end. The buyer paid for UPS Ground and received the item today, in six UPS business days (like what UPS Ground is supposed to be) after the auction ended. Three hours before he received it, he filed a complaint that he didn't get it. Then when he gets it, he escalates the complaint and complains that the software came in an "envelope" (which was still sealed and never used), which some software, particularly OEM, does. He also said that he was supposed to receive another software with it, which was only included with the buy it now, and not by bidding on it, which I clearly stated.

    On top of that, PayPal charged me again for shipping on the same item because of the chargeback. WTF is going on PayPal and stupid buyers? I'm really pissed off at this guy...

    Anyway, is there anything extra that I should tell PayPal to make sure that they're not convinced that I ripped him off, which I didn't, I gave him exactly what the description stated and exactly what he paid for?

    Update 8/26: It looks like PayPal agreed with the buyer without asking for anything from me and without any investigation. They even say that they told the buyer that I agreed to do a full refund if I get the merchandise back, which I never said. Plus, the shipping address that they have on record wasn't right. I emailed them about it and the person I spoke with was no help at all, so the software will be lost thanks to PayPal and the buyer. I just hope that I get the money back... some people are real idiots, I can't believe he went through all of this for no reason. He probably installed the software and is trying to keep a legit copy for free, plus I had to pay shipping (and I might to pay for shipping on his end, too)...
     
  2. furious macrumors 65816

    furious

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2006
    Location:
    Australia
    #2
    I thought you had to wait a certain amount of time before you could file a complaint?
     
  3. MICHAELSD thread starter macrumors 68040

    MICHAELSD

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Location:
    NJ
    #3
    Apparently, no...

    I should have took the money out of my account before this. I learned one lesson: As soon as the seller pays, withdraw the money. Then, I could have denied PayPal taking it out of my bank account. Now PayPal has to decide if I get the money I made back...
     
  4. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    #4
    http://www.paypalsucks.com/

    Paypal does not care what the truth is. they got there fee and that is all they care about. As soon as the guy filed the complaint he got his money back no matter what the truth to the matter is.
     
  5. nanofrog macrumors G4

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    #5
    I'm glad I haven't sold anything on eBay!
    Thanks for the link. Quite useful. :)
     
  6. nickspohn macrumors 68040

    nickspohn

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    #6
    Least you don't have $826.02 just sitting in your account because your account is locked.


    God, i EXTREMELY HATE PAYPAL with a PASSION.


    They are holding millions of dollars in locked / limited accounts just so they can gain interest on your hard earned money, and then we don't get anything out of it.
     
  7. MICHAELSD thread starter macrumors 68040

    MICHAELSD

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Location:
    NJ
    #7
    If I were you, I would sue them for the money, plus any legal fees you pay. So far everyone who's tried has always won, there's a lot of articles on the internet about it.
     
  8. nickspohn macrumors 68040

    nickspohn

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    #8
    I was underage when i made the account... so they could hold that against me.
     
  9. furious macrumors 65816

    furious

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2006
    Location:
    Australia
    #9
    underage how? It is still your money. I cannot see how a court would hold that against you. After all America prides itself on its entrepreneurial sprit.
     
  10. MICHAELSD thread starter macrumors 68040

    MICHAELSD

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Location:
    NJ
    #10
    I contacted Dell, which is where I got the software from, and they were able to back me up on all of the fake complaints the buyer made. I sent a transcript of the chat between me and a Dell rep, who confirmed with his manager about anything he told me, to PayPal. Do you think that this will be the thing that gets my money back? I sent him exactly what he paid for...
     
  11. nanofrog macrumors G4

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    #11
    Seems worth a shot, anyway. ;)
     
  12. Sdashiki macrumors 68040

    Sdashiki

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2005
    Location:
    Behind the lens
    #12
    The only horror I hear about PayPal these 9yrs I have been with them is when I or someone else sells stuff thats not exactly garnering the greatest bidders.

    be it cheap OEM software...
    brand new electronics...
    ebooks and the like...

    Idiots bid idiotically and I try to keep them away by only selling stuff that people with half a brain would want.

    Good luck, PP can be a complete drain on you when this happens. It is frustrating, but a lesson learned. If you use eBay and DONT take PP because you have a problem with them, your sales will drop and high bids will be lower. Truth be told, just watch your a** on PP and it cant steer you wrong.
     
  13. MICHAELSD thread starter macrumors 68040

    MICHAELSD

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Location:
    NJ
    #13
    It looks like PayPal agreed with the buyer without asking for anything from me and without any investigation. They even say that they told the buyer that I agreed to do a full refund if I get the merchandise back, which I never said. Plus, the shipping address that they have on record wasn't right. I emailed them about it and the person I spoke with was no help at all, so the software will be lost thanks to PayPal and the buyer. I just hope that I get the money back... some people are real idiots, I can't believe he went through all of this for no reason. He probably installed the software and is trying to keep a legit copy for free, plus I had to pay shipping (and I might to pay for shipping on his end, too)...
     
  14. SDLSteve macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2004
    Location:
    Florida
    #14
    I'm sorry for the dishonesty on the part of the buyer.

    Remember, ALWAYS withdraw your money once they paid. NEVER Leave it in the account.

    ALWAYS PAY WITH A CREDIT CARD, ALWAYS! If anything goes wrong with the purchase, you have the CC company that will back you up.

    Assume PAYPAL will never back you.

    I had purchased an item on ebay that was listed as New. When it arrived, it was smoke filled and stained.

    I contacted the seller who ignored me, took pictures to prove the stains and then filed a protest with Paypal. They never even asked for evidence and sided with the seller.

    Fortunately, I contacted my CC company (american express) and was able to get a full refund.
     
  15. Clyde099 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2007
    #15
    Sorry to hear about that OP.
    I like buying form eBay but not selling.
    I just sold a PS2 today and plan on putting a Canon G9 up for sale really soon.
    I'm always uneasy about what can happen, but you have to take a risk.

    Hope everything works out.
     
  16. MICHAELSD thread starter macrumors 68040

    MICHAELSD

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Location:
    NJ
    #16
    They never even asked me for evidence. PayPal is filled with a bunch of *******s. Didn't PayPal do something to your account for using American Express to refund it?
     
  17. wongulous macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2002
    #17
    PayPal is just fine. You guys are either misunderstanding the situation, did NOT do something that you were supposed to do, or not telling us the whole story.

    Something you need to learn about PayPal is that they are a payment-processing service, not a credit card company or a bank. If I sell you a widget, and I'm all confirmed with them and you're all confirmed with them, I put in my auction "NO WIDGET RETURNS EVAR!!" and then sell it to you, and you're unhappy and claim it is significantly not as described? Too bad... PayPal forces you to take returns. This is IN THE AGREEMENT YOU AGREED TO. Plus, what else are they supposed to do? If the buyer was forced to keep something, they'd get a credit card chargeback and no one would get any money, or fees.

    What if I send it to you and I don't get a tracking number, and you say you never received it, what are they to do? They have to assume I didn't send it, and they don't want the buyer to do a credit card chargeback (then Paypal loses out twice, and a customer), so they refund the money. Who was wrong? The seller--always get a tracking number.

    Or if you want to be protected by Buyer Protection, for instance... you've got to get signature confirmation. Otherwise you DON'T qualify, and you won't get the money. The guidelines are in the agreement and all over PayPal!

    Oh, my widget came broken? You didn't get shipping insurance? Sure, go ahead and do a 'significantly not as described' claim. But if you wait longer than 45 days WTF do you expect? There is a time limit, it's not a lifelong warranty! It's in the agreement.

    There's all sorts of things at work here, and I guarantee that if it was really not fair, you'd be able to call in and get things fixed. It may not be WHAT YOU WANT, but it is legal and what ANY PAYMENT PROCESSOR would do.
     
  18. SDLSteve macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2004
    Location:
    Florida
    #18
    No, they can't touch the credit card company or your bank account. The only thing I got after American Express refunded me was a letter stating that I had filed a chargeback and they would look into it. I guess they didn't even look at their own info. I never heard another thing.
     
  19. Sdashiki macrumors 68040

    Sdashiki

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2005
    Location:
    Behind the lens
    #19
    I call shenanigans.

    If you, as a buyer, submit a PayPal claim for "not as described" they wont side with the seller, ever. The burden of proof is on them, not you. If they "won" this dispute, its technically your fault for not jumping through the hoops you knew about in your agreement, correctly. ;)

    Were there photos in the auction? Did they photoshop it to look not stained and smoky?

    ive rarely, if ever, seen a paypal dispute go for the seller.
     
  20. hexonxonx macrumors 601

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Location:
    Denver Colorado
    #20
    I sold my MBP and MB plus an iPhone last weekend, just under $3000 total. I guess because this is an irregular event on eBay, once the auctions were over and PayPal received the payments, they placed all my money on hold till they can verify that all shipments have been received by the buyers. The iPhone was signed for yesterday and the two Macs are out for shipment now. Once they are signed for, I was told by PayPal to call them and then they will release my money. I've had all this money locked in my PayPal account that I haven't been able to do anything with since Sunday.

    Is it that rare for someone to sell two laptops and an iPhone at the same time so they think it's suspicious? :(
     
  21. stanfordtechman macrumors member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
  22. dalvin200 macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    #22
    i've had a few disputes raised with paypal which have always ended in my favour.

    in my experience, you can only file a dispute after a certain time, and you can only escalate after 30 days of the auction ending...

    simply tell the truth and if the buyer was an idiot, paypal should side with you and refund some money...

    and yes, i almost always withdraw the money from large purchases straight away...
     

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