[WW+] Werewolf game type brain storm

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by SilentPanda, Oct 30, 2013.

  1. SilentPanda, Oct 30, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2013

    SilentPanda Moderator emeritus

    SilentPanda

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2002
    Location:
    The Bamboo Forest
    #1
    I'm sure people will find flaws in it (there are many, seriously) but I typed it all up so I'll paste it here. I know it will require tweaks but it might be something workable for a future Werewolf style game. Also I did some heavy editing over the past 90 minutes of writing this so some stuff may make for complete nonsense anyway.

    I'll just call this Werewolf+ although it might be Werewolf-----------. Who knows.

    Feel free to think of this as a Werewolf game, but it's not strictly a werewolf game. I'll mention similarities to the Werewolf games.

    My main issues with the current Werewolf games is the following:

    1. There's not a lot of logic to it. If we were playing in real life we might be able to discern something from body language, but here all we have is the text. So for the most part it's a pure guessing game. It gets slightly less guessy the closer we get to the end of course, but then there are very few people left.
    2. People get all excited to play and then die in the first day or so and really have no contribution or need to pay attention to the thread after. "Hey you wanna play Monopoly with us? Oh you rolled a 2! Do you want to buy that proper... oh wait you can't play anymore. Bye!" There do need to be consequences and a diminishing pool of active players but can we make inactive players be participants in some fashion?
    3. While I haven't been a non-role person in the past 2 games (can't recall my earliest games), it has to be somewhat disheartening.

    So now I present to you, in a hopefully readable format, my reformatted 'notes' that I've been making about a new game. The rules are not finalized at all, some things break other things for sure, and I recognize this. I've made and scrapped a bunch of roles. Some of the roles don't make sense if a certain rule is tweaked one way, some don't make sense if the rule is tweaked the other.

    Feel free to suggest roles/rules and be sure to include 'this only works if rule xxx is this way' or 'this only works if role xxx is excluded/included'. All rules and roles are changeable since this is more of a brainstorm. I'm only stating things as if they are fact because stating them as "well maybe" will get tiring. But it's all up for debate or ignoring.

    Setting

    This game takes place in a large house/mansion. There are two floors to the building (we'll call them upstairs and downstairs) along with a lobby on the lower floor (although this likely doesn't matter). Each floor will start off with the same number of rooms based on roughly the total player count divided by 2. If we had 10 players there would be 5 rooms on each floor (actually I think 6, since we might need 1 extra per floor in case the screamer screams, but I'll get to that later).

    Instead of a day/night cycle the game will operate on an even/odd hour cycle. Even hours would be similar to daytime, players would meet in the lobby. During the odd hours, each player would go to a different room. For the most part, no two players would go to the same room.

    Room assignment is still a bit up in the air. There's 3 ways to do it, autoassign rooms (makes rooms somewhat useless), players choose rooms (seems tedious for the most part and players would need to put their chosen rooms in priority order in case 2+ chose the same room), or a mixture where roles that actually benefit from choosing a room choose and those that don't are randomly assigned by the game master. I'm preferring option 3 for the time being. Rooms will likely be numbered for ease of use but can also be named for story purposes. Regardless, players will only know which room they are in but not the room that other players went to. The rooms are important because they assist with the logic bit when mashed together with the information people have (point 1 above).

    Even hours - day

    During even hours, the players meet up in the house lobby. Players do not lynch. They vote on a player to restrain. The restrained player will be stuck in the lobby during the following odd hour (night). The restrained player will not be able to use their ability. However I am not opposed to roles that are only usable by restrained players or potentially only become usable if a player is restrained.

    The next even hour (day) the players can either free the restrained player and restrain a new one or have them picked up by the police. If the player is one of the bad guys they will be removed, if they are good, they will be stripped of their role (police searched them but didn't return their role equipment) and returned to the house.

    Odd hours - night

    This is when the killer... kills. Not too surprising. This is also when most of the roles do their thing. Again, not too surprising.

    All players will know which room they were in, which when paired with other players information could be useful for figuring out who the killer is. But it may be a gamble to give out that information early on.

    Bad guy roles

    • Killer - The killer will choose a player to kill each odd hour (night). The Killer, Trapper, and Poisoner all know of each other at the beginning. The bad guys can skip 1 odd hour (night) of killing.
    • Secret Admirer - This player is on the killers team once the killer discovers them. Every time the secret admirer visits a room, they leave a message that only the killer would notice. If the killer then visits a room the secret admirer has been to, the killer will be able to contact the secret admirer. If the secret admirer finds the body of a victim (more on that later), they can recognize the handiwork and contact the killer. Will take over for the Killer should the killer die. While killer is active and they have made contact, the secret admirer can perform a kill instead of the killer. The killer can potentially kill this player.
    • Trapper - The trapper can set a trap in a room they are in. The next player to enter that room will die from the trap and no other killing will take place that night. This happens even if the drunk is present in the room for the trap kill.
    • Poisoner - Has a one time ability to kill the person that is restrained. This happens instead of the nightly killing.

    Good guy roles

    • Priest - The priest has a protection ability. The priest will protect a player and that player cannot be harmed over that odd hour. They also won't die if they protect the killer. They cannot protect the same person twice in a row. It's quite similar to the protection ability we have now.
    • Screamer - The screamer has a passive role. Upon their death they will scream and alert everybody on the same floor. They will still die but all players on the floor of the murder will know all other players who were on that floor as they will all run to that room. This basically cuts the pool of potential killers in half. Let's say the screamer was on the upper floor. All players on the upper floor including the killer would receive a PM stating the names of all players on that floor. The players on the lower floor would receive no such message. Of course the players on the upper floor would likely share the list, but there might be an interesting situation where they wouldn't want to. The main purpose is to cut the killer candidate pool in half.
    • Butler - This is the person that is extremely fickle about the cleanliness of the house. The player will know that they are the butler, but should they stumble upon the scene of a murder, they will automatically clean up the crime scene and discard it from their memory. This is a passive role but knowing which rooms have potentially been cleaned may be useful to the good guys later in the game. The butler will not be informed if they clean up a crime scene.
    • Lawyer - If the lawyer stumbles upon a crime scene, they can find the deceased players will and interpret it. They may then disclose the contents of the will if they see fit. If the lawyer finds the will, I will ask the deceased to write up a note containing whatever information they desire to pass to the lawyer. This could truth, lies, or a mix of both depending on the victim.
    • Detective - Upon entering a room, they can know the last role performed in the room they are in.
    • Drunk - After all players, including the killer, are assigned rooms, the drunk stumbles into a random room. This has a random chance to prevent whatever role was about to act in that room from happening, including killing. The further along in the game we are, the more drunk the drunk is, and the probability decreases. This is a passive role.
    • Secret Agent - This player places a hidden camera in the first room they end up in. Whatever other players enter this room and perform their role, it will be communicated to the secret agent via PM. To some extent this is a seer role but they get to choose a room instead of a player. If a murder happens in the room it is assumed the killer has turned off the camera. The secret agent can then place a new camera in their next room.
    • Tracker - This player can track a given player and know which room they ended up in. They can switch their target prior to room assignment.
    • The Contact - Can return a role to a single player if they are returned as 'good' by the police.
    • The Paranoid - Can insta-kill a single restrained player if a preset amount of the player base is deceased (roughly half of the initial players). Normally a player is restrained, then the next even hour taken to the police, then the next even hour a new player restrained. Instead the player will be restrained then the next even hour instead of being taken to the police, the restrained player would be killed and a new player could be restrained. It saves a day if you feel very certain that player is a bad guy. But a good guy could get killed as well.
    • Citizens - A citizen will attain the role of a dead person if they stumble upon the body of a role. They won't get the prior knowledge from the role though. This helps with problem 3 as listed at the top.

    Dead guy roles - Helps with problem #2.

    • Ghost - Dead players will default to ghost. Each night dead players can leave a one word message. It will be assigned to a random room. Non-special players can read the message. Messages are wiped after each odd hour (night). At most there will be one message per room.
    • Bad Ghost - Same as ghost, but the secret admirer if killed by the killer, will become a bad ghost. Also a bad player that is killed by the insta-kill of the Paranoid would become a bad ghost. Bad ghosts also leave one word messages. There's no way to discern the difference between the good and bad messages.

    The murder
    When a player is killed the body is left until another player enters a room the following odd hour. That player will be informed they found a body (except the Butler), they can then perform their action on the body if they have one, and upon leaving the room the door will be closed off for the rest of the game.

    Winning

    Good guys when when the cops have all the bad guys!

    Bad guys win when they've killed all the good guys!

    Exception: Bad guys can't win on February 29th.

    Okay that's enough for now. As stated earlier, I'm certain the game has flaws, maybe even enough that it should be tossed out the window. Also all the roles probably will not be used. I just made a bunch for the purposes of mixing and matching.
     
  2. chrmjenkins macrumors 603

    chrmjenkins

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2007
    Location:
    CA
    #2
    [​IMG]

    j/k :p
     
  3. costabunny macrumors 68020

    costabunny

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Location:
    Weymouth, UK
    #3
    I like Panda's idea - I am very qualified to be the Drunk ;)
     
  4. SilentPanda thread starter Moderator emeritus

    SilentPanda

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2002
    Location:
    The Bamboo Forest
    #4
    *sniffle*

    Haha... "you prevented a murder... take two shots"

    I agree with less people. Too many takes too long which makes turns take way too long which makes for a sad panda.

    -------------------------

    Well I'd like to play the game too, but I also want to make sure it's not completely broken. I won't say I've spent days thinking about it, but I've trashed a ton of roles and morphed the game quite a bit from my original thoughts as I've found numerous silly things that could happen. I've no doubt that if we ever play it we'd end up in some situation by hour 5 where we all go, "Well that broke the game....." So I thought I'd put it up for discussion if people want in order to hammer out better details, let people invent more roles, etc. I doubt we'll be playing it any time soon.

    I think the narrative would be quite fun/easy too since we could basically do things like 'ravenvii appeared to be quietly playing the piano when his head accidentally got tangled in the piano wires... tsk tsk. The one time a g-string is wrapped around his neck and he couldn't even enjoy it.'
     
  5. costabunny macrumors 68020

    costabunny

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Location:
    Weymouth, UK
    #5
    well, count me in for a beta test ;)
     
  6. FenrisMoonlight macrumors 6502a

    FenrisMoonlight

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #6
    Interesting Ideas. One thing I don't get is why change it to even/odd hours? Sounds more complicated than Day/Night for no good reason. The whole concept sounds like it would work fine for a day (people mingling in lobby)/night (people retire to their rooms to sleep) cycle.

    Do the ghosts know who killed them? I'd be tempted to give them the option of haunting someone (like tracker but by the dead) or leaving a message so they can try to identify and release information but thats maybe too useful. As the number of people decreases their messages are going to get less and less likely to be found but I guess that's offset by more ghosts.

    I think you may need more than 1 kill each cycle, maybe the trap doesn't stop the other kill as otherwise its going to take a long time for the bad guys to win and it would be a set deadline (number of players - 4 days) or longer if the drunk gets in the way with no other way for the bad guys to reduce the numbers. My instinct says its weighted in the good guys favour atm since the attrition rate is halved with a much lower downside to the good guys voting out a good player.

    Issues I can see: room assignments for people/ghosts leaving messages. How you going to resolve two ghosts trying to leave a message in the same room? Sounds like these mechanics might be prone to causing delays in the game if you have to go back and say people have to re choose.
     
  7. SilentPanda, Oct 30, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2013

    SilentPanda thread starter Moderator emeritus

    SilentPanda

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2002
    Location:
    The Bamboo Forest
    #7
    There's no difference really except terminology. I'm fine with day/night too. One reason I think I didn't go with day/night is because then they are 'in bed' at night and it lessened the room variation for the narrative. They could be called like, "exploration" and "meetup" or something too.

    They would not know who killed them. A haunting role is fine, I just haven't thought of one! I think the ghosts need more fleshing out.

    That's quite possible. I do think the game might be too slow. Having traps/poison being able to trigger the same night as kills might not be bad. Or increase to two kills a night once the Secret Admirer is found by the Killer.

    My intent would be to have ghosts send me messages and them be randomly assigned to rooms. As rooms dwindle, some ghost messages might not get shown. It would take too long to let ghosts pick the rooms and provides no real benefit I don't think.
     
  8. Roric macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Location:
    WI
    #8
    This sounds really interesting. Count me in for a beta!
     
  9. twietee macrumors 603

    twietee

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    #9
    Cool idea! Two things come to mind, starting with the very important one:

    Every Haunted House needs a basement! Now go figure how that could work yourself..:p

    Second, I think it could work well if the ghosts could PM each other (baddies and goodies separated) thus forming teams. Could encourage to take it more serious plus the hints may benefit/get more educated.
     
  10. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Location:
    The Far Horizon
    #10
    Great idea for a game Silent Panda. Actually, my only caveat re hours - or such a time based game - is that the time zone of where I currently work in central Asia is a rather peculiar three and a half hours ahead of BST (GMT + 1), so a world predicted on actions which could only take place at specified even and odd hours would present an unusual challenge......
     
  11. SilentPanda thread starter Moderator emeritus

    SilentPanda

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2002
    Location:
    The Bamboo Forest
    #11
    The hours are just labels. The game is not played in real time.
     
  12. Tomorrow macrumors 604

    Tomorrow

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2008
    Location:
    Always a day away
    #12
    I like SilentPanda's concept, too - I'll be anxious to play it.
     
  13. SilentPanda thread starter Moderator emeritus

    SilentPanda

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2002
    Location:
    The Bamboo Forest
    #13
    Nobody said the house was haunted. But if you come up with a good idea for a basement, feel free to propose one!

    Ghosts factions PMing each other might be good. The first person to die would be the person in charge of their group (this would just make it easier to know who to expect a PM from and would make the first person to die feel less bad about dying so soon).

    Bad guys will likely not die (they get sent to jail normally) so having them be able to PM if they die will rarely happen anyway.

    Conversations via PM could be tedious, but I guess that's not really 'my' problem.

    If we went to ghosts sending PMs, I think what would happen is the good and bad factions would both send me their one word thing, each would appear in a random room in the house, and the next player, regardless of faction or role, to walk in the room would see the text, and it would then disappear. They could choose to share this information with the group at large, or if they're a bad guy, just via PM.

    Also if the ghosts were taking too long to decide, I would just use the prior nights word again. This way their event wouldn't be skipped but we wouldn't have to wait for them.

    Having an extra room (or few) in the house would ensure that if somebody saw the word and didn't want to reveal it, they wouldn't have to since the word could have been in an empty room.

    The game master could also let the ghosts know who, if anybody, saw the PM.
     
  14. twietee macrumors 603

    twietee

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    #14
    BOOOO if this is not about a haunted house! :mad: :D

    Maybe we exchange the prison with the basement/cellar? What happens in this house stays in this house. Or something along the line..

    Maybe you just open up a new thread for this idea so we can gather and beta test as much as we like?! :D
     
  15. SilentPanda thread starter Moderator emeritus

    SilentPanda

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    #15
    Or maybe I can get a mod to move my post and the relevant ones to a new thread. :) Maybe.
     
  16. twietee macrumors 603

    twietee

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    #16
    I notice your emphasis on relevant........I was only making suggestions! :D
     
  17. ravenvii macrumors 604

    ravenvii

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Location:
    Melenkurion Skyweir
    #17
    Great narrative, great game chrmjenkins!

    Only negative this game I think is that there's simply too many players. From experience ~16 is the golden number here.

    But I'm glad we got so many people interested again!

    I'm going to run the next one. It's a quick one, so we can cool down from two big games. It will come with a twist, of course. :)

    Link: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=18268456#post18268456

    Holy ****. I want to play this game! I don't even care if some roles may be broken or whatnot, we must experiment with this concept. I love it!
     
  18. SilentPanda thread starter Moderator emeritus

    SilentPanda

    Joined:
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    Location:
    The Bamboo Forest
    #18
    Guess they found you relevant... :(
     
  19. SilentPanda thread starter Moderator emeritus

    SilentPanda

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2002
    Location:
    The Bamboo Forest
    #19
    Ohhhhhhh... I think one thing might be to not reveal what each room contains, except to the player that enters. So players can know there are 5 rooms upstairs, 5 downstairs, and they can be numbered. But when twietee is assigned a room, he's informed he's in the study. Later on if somebody dies in the study, the narrative can indicate that and since twietee knows where the study is (as would anybody else who has been to the study) they might want to go to that room if their role can actually perform an action based on a murder scene. There might be other things to do with that too.
     
  20. costabunny macrumors 68020

    costabunny

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Weymouth, UK
    #20
    I prefer a dungeon myself ;)
     
  21. FenrisMoonlight, Oct 31, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2013

    FenrisMoonlight macrumors 6502a

    FenrisMoonlight

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #21
    If you have a dungeon, you can have a torturer. Evil guy that takes people down to the dungeon to torture information out of them. an evil seer but with a twist that the person would know they've been tortured?
     
  22. SilentPanda thread starter Moderator emeritus

    SilentPanda

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2002
    Location:
    The Bamboo Forest
    #22
    I have next week off work. I'll take some time to refine the game and post stuff up. Then we can discuss a bit prior to Thanksgiving. Then after Thanksgiving we can give it a try. Again, I almost guarantee it won't be 'fun' and will fail. But afterwards we can look at it and refine it or toss it out completely. Hopefully just refine.

    So somebody start up another WW game or two between now and then! :)
     

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