theroaringbadger

macrumors member
Original poster
Mar 23, 2018
59
150
People need to calm down. JUST because it wasn’t said in the keynote doesn’t mean that ram updates weren’t added. Not every single update is listed on their site - like progress bar in files or low power mode. It may just be a more behind the scenes thing. Like calm down. Wait for the beta. We may get a new Final Cut Pro later this year. Or not. We are seeing more powerful apps - LumaFusion, capture one 2022, Adobe photoshop, affinity photo with layers, pixelmator photo - super resolution with high res files. And we got iOS app development on the iPad. That’s awesome. So what if it’s not full Xcode. It’s great for a lot of people and plus it’s a great start.

Just wait and see rather than ranting how the iPad is **** and not for real pros or etc.
Because not every pro is on Reddit or YouTube or macrumors complaining. Lol.
We need to be positive for once. This sub is so toxic. Always moaning and complaining.
Also why no new Macs? Supply shortage for displays, chips etc. Could be silent release or later in the year. This sub is so entitled and toxic. We need to chill out
 

iPadified

macrumors 6502a
Apr 25, 2017
940
903
You beat me to it. The complaining here is complete out of proportion. Finally we have a device that is software constraint and not hardware constraint. That is how is always should be but often is not - space to grow for software.

My 4Gb iPP from 2017 reloads large games (Civ VI) all the time so obviously 4Gb is not sufficient for smooth operations. 8Gb probably solves some issue but it is only a matter of time when it not is enough and 16 Gb is a blessing.

iPad app dev, better continuity - really cool stuff. Not to say translate, Live text, photo to 3D model etc. FCP and logic can come later at an appropriate "pro" event.
 
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jimmy_uk

macrumors 65816
Oct 19, 2015
1,475
1,544
UK
Youtube and Twitter leakers overhyped WWDC for clicks. I do think part of the issue is the iPad Pro has had hardware capable of much more than iOS then iPadOS would realise, and this has been the case for years. The thinking clearly is if Apple is now putting "laptop class" processors and RAM in them - why is the software still held back? Some are tired of waiting.

For me it's obvious, the iPad Pro is a companion device for specific tasks - Apple still prefers you to own a laptop or desktop as well if you need more power/features. Unless you can live with the constraints, and Apple never promised they would make the iPad more than they currently are. And what they are today makes them market leaders, they are fantastic devices.

I know plenty of artists who love them for what they can do right now with the power and flexibility they currently have - it has freed them from Wacom. Also another example, my ageing parents love their standard iPads because they don't want to have to service laptops - they just want something that works - and if it plays up, a simple on/off fixes everything.

Ultimately the Pro segment of devices was created for more profit - either for consumers who the money is of no object, they want to own "the best". Or, now hear me out, for people who have bought them for what they are capable of achieving today - a tool for a job. For everyone else, you probably should have bought an Air and still have a capable device that operates just the same as the Pros. Or just buy a damn computer if your iPad cannot achieve what you need!
 
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Digitalguy

macrumors 68000
Apr 15, 2019
1,529
1,306
I think the most vocal people in the community are either the extreme complainers or the eternal sheeps.
Neither realize that Apple has a clear strategy on integration in mind, not of convergence... This is the most profitable strategy for them, the one that maximizes sales... So iPad will not be a MacBook replacement and the 2 will continue to be clearly distinct but very integrated, so that people are incetivized to buy both.

- The complainers complain that this is not fair, that 2 devices are redundant, that the pro has laptop hardware and it's unacceptable to not use it to its full potential...

- The sheeps will say that Apple loves so much their customers, and would never put profits before them....They don't believe that Apple doesn't want to cannibalize their products... That people should give them time, that pro features and pro apps will arrive soon... and if they don't it's because that's in the best interest of their customers...

Meanwhile, those who understand their strategy will keep using the iPads for what they are and understand that pro means premium, not professional
 
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AlexanderUK

macrumors newbie
Jun 25, 2020
15
23
The one thing which I'm looking for which many people have complained about is the ability to change the default web browser. Currently your choice is Safari or a browser that has to run using Safari (Webkit) with heavy sanctions imposed. I do like the fact that Apple is now allowing extensions and native app dev, but this doesn't make up for the fact that Webkit is the worst of all the current rendering engines in terms of browser support for web standards and web apps. This isn't something that can be fixed with an app in the store, it requires a change in the OS.

My complaint isn't out or proportion either, I work as a web developer. The fact that Safari is the only choice means I can't test my sites properly. The fact that Apple provides no developer tools in Safari on iOS (but does on Mac) means I can't even view the source code of a website (despite the web being an open platform).

There are over 24m web developers worldwide, not including web designers, UX engineers, etc. We're in the creative industry Apple claims to desperately want to covet and we often have healthy budgets for equipment and software. Yet on a device that would support our need to both design interfaces and then build production ready code, we can't do it because Apple actively blocks the tools or functionality for an entire industry on mobile devices. Imagine if they did it for the entire graphic design field? The response would be different.

Either way, WWDC has confirmed that iPadOS isn't ready for the web industries to take it seriously as anything other than an expensive toy. It can't render the web properly, it has a browser monopoly with poor support, and the tooling isn't there. So we'll be putting all our cash into Macs. Which is a shame, because the iPad could have gained a new customer base.
 
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iPadified

macrumors 6502a
Apr 25, 2017
940
903
I think the most vocal people in the community are either the extreme complainers or the eternal sheeps.
Neither realize that Apple has a clear strategy on integration in mind, not of convergence... This is the most profitable strategy for them, the one that maximizes sales... So iPad will not be a MacBook replacement and the 2 will continue to be clearly distinct but very integrated, so that people are incetivized to buy both.

- The complainers complain that this is not fair, that 2 devices are redundant, that the pro has laptop hardware and it's unacceptable to not use it to its full potential...

- The sheeps will say that Apple loves so much their customers, and would never put profits before them....They don't believe that Apple doesn't want to cannibalize their products... That people should give them time, that pro features and pro apps will arrive soon... and if they don't it's because that's in the best interest of their customers...

Meanwhile, those who understand their strategy will keep using the iPads for what they are and understand that pro means premium, not professional
I agree that "integration" is the key word. WWDC 2021 was all about that and from that perspective I saw a lot that I liked. That new continuity/airplay (or what ever that called it) feature will be very useful and essentially let you use two or more macs/iPad as one device, ie from one keyboard and trackpad.

"Not to its full potential": As far as I know, and video export still takes minutes from the M1 so there are room for improvements in terms of performance. "Not to its full potential" should be reflected back to what the user is doing with the computer/iPad.

If I would buy a 2021 iPad today I would go for the 1Tb, 16 Gb RAM to minimise reloads.
 
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slplss

macrumors 6502
Nov 2, 2011
278
261
It’s my first iPad after almost a decade and I feel I couldn’t have joined the club at a better time, but I feel sorry for those who sold their older devices expecting a revolution on the same level M1 has caused on Macs. I feel if Apple went with the same chip under a different name, it would draw less confusion and disappointment from their customers.
 
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jeremiah256

macrumors 65816
Aug 2, 2008
1,430
1,146
Southern California
The one thing which I'm looking for which many people have complained about is the ability to change the default web browser. Currently your choice is Safari or a browser that has to run using Safari (Webkit) with heavy sanctions imposed. I do like the fact that Apple is now allowing extensions and native app dev, but this doesn't make up for the fact that Webkit is the worst of all the current rendering engines in terms of browser support for web standards and web apps. This isn't something that can be fixed with an app in the store, it requires a change in the OS.

My complaint isn't out or proportion either, I work as a web developer. The fact that Safari is the only choice means I can't test my sites properly. The fact that Apple provides no developer tools in Safari on iOS (but does on Mac) means I can't even view the source code of a website (despite the web being an open platform).

There are over 24m web developers worldwide, not including web designers, UX engineers, etc. We're in the creative industry Apple claims to desperately want to covet and we often have healthy budgets for equipment and software. Yet on a device that would support our need to both design interfaces and then build production ready code, we can't do it because Apple actively blocks the tools or functionality for an entire industry on mobile devices. Imagine if they did it for the entire graphic design field? The response would be different.

Either way, WWDC has confirmed that iPadOS isn't ready for the web industries to take it seriously as anything other than an expensive toy. It can't render the web properly, it has a browser monopoly with poor support, and the tooling isn't there. So we'll be putting all our cash into Macs. Which is a shame, because the iPad could have gained a new customer base.
My hopes and dreams now lay with GitHub CodeSpaces.

It would mean shifting money from a newer, higher version iPad Pro to a lower version to offset paying for the service, but will probably still be a better bet and financial decision in the short and long run.
 
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DMG35

Contributor
May 27, 2021
161
269
For whatever reason people somehow convinced themselves that despite every single piece of common sense staring at them that Apple was going to single out the 2021 iPad Pro as "special" and give it something that none of the other Pro iPads have.

Here is why it was obvious they weren't doing that:

1. They have stated numerous times and in April of this year that the iPad Pro will not run MacOS

2. Are the M1 MacBooks and iMacs given something special that none of the other Macs can't do? Nope.

3. Does Apple let iPhone Pro users get software that none of the other iPhones get? Nope.

4. Apple was never going to alienate customers by telling them that their 2020 iPad Pro, which is essentially the 2021 iPad Pro without the screen, can't run the M1 OS or run the "PRO" apps that every thought was coming.

As far as the RAM is concerned its just good marketing by Apple. They absolutely know that many people look at the 1TB and 2TB options and say "I don't need all that storage, its overkill." But when people see the 16GB of RAM it turns into "Oh I have to have that extra RAM, I need it." People do the same things when they load up their Macs by adding all of this RAM in it they they will never need or use. Because Apple advertised 16GB of RAM in the 1 and 2TB options they sold a lot more of them than they would have without dangling that RAM carrot in front of people.
 
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ericwn

macrumors G3
Apr 24, 2016
8,389
5,783
For whatever reason people somehow convinced themselves that despite every single piece of common sense staring at them that Apple was going to single out the 2021 iPad Pro as "special" and give it something that none of the other Pro iPads have.

Here is why it was obvious they weren't doing that:

1. They have stated numerous times and in April of this year that the iPad Pro will not run MacOS

2. Are the M1 MacBooks and iMacs given something special that none of the other Macs can't do? Nope.

3. Does Apple let iPhone Pro users get software that none of the other iPhones get? Nope.

4. Apple was never going to alienate customers by telling them that their 2020 iPad Pro, which is essentially the 2021 iPad Pro without the screen, can't run the M1 OS or run the "PRO" apps that every thought was coming.

As far as the RAM is concerned its just good marketing by Apple. They absolutely know that many people look at the 1TB and 2TB options and say "I don't need all that storage, its overkill." But when people see the 16GB of RAM it turns into "Oh I have to have that extra RAM, I need it." People do the same things when they load up their Macs by adding all of this RAM in it they they will never need or use. Because Apple advertised 16GB of RAM in the 1 and 2TB options they sold a lot more of them than they would have without dangling that RAM carrot in front of people.

Great summary.
 
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maflynn

Moderator
Staff member
May 3, 2009
68,025
35,593
Boston
As far as the RAM
People are so obessed with ram, it doesn't matter if we're talking Macs, Apple TV or iPads. Just scan through the MBP forum or if you've been a frequent visitor there, you'd see people saying how a while back that 32GB was needed, then Apple upped the max ram to 64 and boom, that's absolutey needed even though many people's use case is just office apps.

Switch to the iPad and look through prior year's iPad announcements and see how many folks post about what the ram is on the new iPads. I think they're failing to see the forest through the trees. it doesn't matter how much ram there is, as long as the experience is positive.
 
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Ludatyk

macrumors 68030
May 27, 2012
2,895
1,765
Texas
For whatever reason people somehow convinced themselves that despite every single piece of common sense staring at them that Apple was going to single out the 2021 iPad Pro as "special" and give it something that none of the other Pro iPads have.
Let first admit, I was wrong. I was expecting something specific to the M1 iPP and Apple did not deliver on that. But I still believe this iPadOS 15 will be more optimized to the M1 iPP compared to previous iPadOS.

1. They have stated numerous times and in April of this year that the iPad Pro will not run MacOS
I’ve never desired that. I could care less if macOS runs on an iPad, however… I did want some type of virtualization and unfortunately that wasn’t in the cards this year.

2. Are the M1 MacBooks and iMacs given something special that none of the other Macs can't do? Nope.
Tbf, battery life is special compared to M1 MBs to intel MBs and supposedly apps run more efficiently on M1 Macs. But as far as any specific features… no, macOS is essentially the same across all Macs.

3. Does Apple let iPhone Pro users get software that none of the other iPhones get? Nope.
I believe someone mention this to you before. But there are factors where iPhone software get perks dedicated to their hardware… for instance, camera setting features.

4. Apple was never going to alienate customers by telling them that their 2020 iPad Pro, which is essentially the 2021 iPad Pro without the screen, can't run the M1 OS or run the "PRO" apps that every thought was coming.
Correct. But if I recall, someone did mention that developers can impose apps that run specifically on M1 iPP.

But when people see the 16GB of RAM it turns into "Oh I have to have that extra RAM, I need it." People do the same things when they load up their Macs by adding all of this RAM in it they they will never need or use.
There’s no need to generalize, who knows what people workflow is. There are graphic intensive apps that will help in matters with 16GBs of RAM. Regardless of how what you think people need, it’s an option for those who want to future proof their devices. Some might care to have their devices for a long period of time, extra RAM provides longevity.
 
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DMG35

Contributor
May 27, 2021
161
269
People are so obessed with ram, it doesn't matter if we're talking Macs, Apple TV or iPads. Just scan through the MBP forum or if you've been a frequent visitor there, you'd see people saying how a while back that 32GB was needed, then Apple upped the max ram to 64 and boom, that's absolutey needed even though many people's use case is just office apps.

Switch to the iPad and look through prior year's iPad announcements and see how many folks post about what the ram is on the new iPads. I think they're failing to see the forest through the trees. it doesn't matter how much ram there is, as long as the experience is positive.

Yeah I agree and I think that Apple probably is aware of this. They know that there is a market for people who are going to spend more money on a device simply because it has more RAM. If RAM management on the iPad was actually a thing then Apple wouldn't just put it on the higher tier storage models and let people customize the amount of RAM they want. Apple isn't going to tell a customer who just spend $2000 on an iPad Pro that their device is less capable because they only purchased 512GB or storage which has 8GB of RAM. 16GB is just a way to push people to spend more on the higher storage models, which is really smart by Apple.
 
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DMG35

Contributor
May 27, 2021
161
269
Let first admit, I was wrong. I was expecting something specific to the M1 iPP and Apple did not deliver on that. But I still believe this iPadOS 15 will be more optimized to the M1 iPP compared to previous iPadOS.


I’ve never desired that. I could care less if macOS runs on an iPad, however… I did want some type of virtualization and unfortunately that wasn’t in the cards this year.


Tbf, battery life is special compared to M1 MBs to intel MBs and supposedly apps run more efficiently on M1 Macs. But as far as any specific features… no, macOS is essentially the same across all Macs.


I believe someone mention this to you before. But there are factors where iPhone software get perks dedicated to their hardware… for instance, camera setting features.


Correct. But if I recall, someone did mention that developers can impose apps that run specifically on M1 iPP.


There’s no need to generalize, who knows what people workflow is. There are graphic intensive apps that will help in matters with 16GBs of RAM. Regardless of how what you think people need, it’s an option for those who want to future proof their devices. Some might care to have their devices for a long period of time, extra RAM provides longevity.
1. The latest device is always optimized for the newest OS. There is nothing revolutionary about that. Its going to be a very slight difference, if any, compared to the 2020 and 2018 iPad Pros.

2. I never said you desired that, but there were some in here who though Apple was going to release a version of an OS or Pro Apps that would only run on the M1. They aren't going to do that.

3. There's a big difference here though. The M1 iPad isn't some crazy leap over the 2020 iPad Pro. Its just the next generation of the A12x which is why you DON'T see a massive jump in battery life improvement. You aren't going to see gains like moving from Intel on the Mac to the M1 because Apple was already using their own chip in the iPad.

4. Yeah there are tiny little features but absolutely nothing really noteworthy that a "Pro" phone can do over a regular iPhone. The iPhone mini is just as capable as the iPhone Pro, just smaller.

5. Yeah its a generalization, but its also a reality. There are absolutely people who purchased the 1TB models simply because Apple is advertising 16GB of RAM. Future-proofing by adding more RAM is a complete myth. Its especially a myth on something like the iPad where only certain amounts of RAM are ever used.
 
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DoubleFlyaway

macrumors 65816
Nov 16, 2017
1,421
2,149
You beat me to it. The complaining here is complete out of proportion. Finally we have a device that is software constraint and not hardware constraint. That is how is always should be but often is not - space to grow for software.

My 4Gb iPP from 2017 reloads large games (Civ VI) all the time so obviously 4Gb is not sufficient for smooth operations. 8Gb probably solves some issue but it is only a matter of time when it not is enough and 16 Gb is a blessing.

iPad app dev, better continuity - really cool stuff. Not to say translate, Live text, photo to 3D model etc. FCP and logic can come later at an appropriate "pro" event.
When you say it reloads Civ VI all the time, what do you mean? Just curious as a fellow Civ VI player, on a 2018 12.9. It doesn't reload while I'm playing or anything. But if I navigate to another tab and then come back, maybe 10 to 20 percent of the time it does reload. It is annoying. But it is the only app I have that really gives me that annoyance, because pretty much anything else that reloads does it really quickly.
 
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KittyKatta

macrumors 6502a
Feb 24, 2011
943
940
SoCal
People are so obessed with ram, it doesn't matter if we're talking Macs, Apple TV or iPads. Just scan through the MBP forum or if you've been a frequent visitor there, you'd see people saying how a while back that 32GB was needed, then Apple upped the max ram to 64 and boom, that's absolutey needed even though many people's use case is just office apps.

Switch to the iPad and look through prior year's iPad announcements and see how many folks post about what the ram is on the new iPads. I think they're failing to see the forest through the trees. it doesn't matter how much ram there is, as long as the experience is positive.

Not arguing. I agree with the points of RAM. More RAM = Good. But, unlike the Mac where “buy as much RAM as you can afford” is solid buying advice, the same can’t be said about the iPad where RAM usage is inconsistent/hidden.


Mac:
RAM cost extra
RAM has clear immediate benefits in current or future workflow
Conclusion: RAM importance is established and proven, therefore RAM upgrade purchase can logically be made based.

iPad:
RAM cost extra
RAM has no clear benefit in current or future workflow
Conclusion: RAM importance is unpredictable. On OS level then RAM usage is inconsistent. Some apps will take advantage of RAM, most will not.


Again, I dont care enough to argue about this. I’m just saying that Apple is the one that introduced a new RAM tier but didn’t give an explanation on what that RAM is for. So it seems a little unfair for some people to blame on the end users for drawing a conclusion based on decades of factual historical trends in other RAM-tiered devices.
 
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007p

macrumors 6502a
Mar 7, 2012
963
576
I knew Apple would eventually use swift playgrounds as an ‘Xcode lite’, but honestly, is it any good? The fact that they spent barely anytime at all on it, during an actual ‘developer’ keynote no less, makes me think it’s going to be held back with all sorts of ridiculous limitations that in the end just make it useless. Hope I’m wrong, but haven’t caught up with peoples beta experiences yet.
 
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maflynn

Moderator
Staff member
May 3, 2009
68,025
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Boston
But, unlike the Mac where “buy as much RAM as you can afford” is solid buying advice,
Is it?
Buying a 16" MBP and going from 16GB to 64GB is an 800 dollar up charge and depending on the configuration, could push the MBP to the 4,000 dollar mark which is crazy expensive.

So if I'm wanting a MBP to connect to the offfice network, send emails, and do facebook stuff in the off hours, imo, it makes zero sense.

64GB of ram only make sense if the consumer has a stated need to use that amount. You're basically spending money on a component that you'll never really take advantage of, throwing 800 dollars out the window

i think the best advice is configure a laptop to your exact needs for today with an eye to the future. People talk about future proofing (which is a marketing term to scare people to over spend), but by and large what you do with your computer today, will be the same in the next few years.

The benefits of extra ram on the PC and iPad are the same, is your workflow set up in such a way that you can take advantage of it

Just my $.02
 
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scrappyj

Suspended
Jun 4, 2021
12
19
I’m a happy camper for the improvements in multitasking alone. iPadOS can’t page (is that what it’s called?) so the extra RAM is welcomed if we’re expected to have various app window setups and not want to reload states. Also, Files now supports click and drag to select.
 
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DMG35

Contributor
May 27, 2021
161
269
Not arguing. I agree with the points of RAM. More RAM = Good. But, unlike the Mac where “buy as much RAM as you can afford” is solid buying advice, the same can’t be said about the iPad where RAM usage is inconsistent/hidden.


Mac:
RAM cost extra
RAM has clear immediate benefits in current or future workflow
Conclusion: RAM importance is established and proven, therefore RAM upgrade purchase can logically be made based.

iPad:
RAM cost extra
RAM has no clear benefit in current or future workflow
Conclusion: RAM importance is unpredictable. On OS level then RAM usage is inconsistent. Some apps will take advantage of RAM, most will not.


Again, I dont care enough to argue about this. I’m just saying that Apple is the one that introduced a new RAM tier but didn’t give an explanation on what that RAM is for. So it seems a little unfair for some people to blame on the end users for drawing a conclusion based on decades of factual historical trends in other RAM-tiered devices.

Nah, buying as much RAM as you can afford is a waste of money. More RAM doesn't have immediate benefits in your workflow if you aren't using it. Just because someone can afford 32GB of RAM doesn't mean that buy buying it they are benefiting from it and most likely they aren't.

Apple introduced the RAM tier for one reason only. They wanted to push people to the more expensive iPad Pro option. Its a smart strategy for them to do that and will lead to more sales simply because of the RAM options.
 
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Apple_Robert

Contributor
Sep 21, 2012
26,845
32,892
In the middle of several books.
People need to calm down. JUST because it wasn’t said in the keynote doesn’t mean that ram updates weren’t added. Not every single update is listed on their site - like progress bar in files or low power mode. It may just be a more behind the scenes thing. Like calm down. Wait for the beta. We may get a new Final Cut Pro later this year. Or not. We are seeing more powerful apps - LumaFusion, capture one 2022, Adobe photoshop, affinity photo with layers, pixelmator photo - super resolution with high res files. And we got iOS app development on the iPad. That’s awesome. So what if it’s not full Xcode. It’s great for a lot of people and plus it’s a great start.

Just wait and see rather than ranting how the iPad is **** and not for real pros or etc.
Because not every pro is on Reddit or YouTube or macrumors complaining. Lol.
We need to be positive for once. This sub is so toxic. Always moaning and complaining.
Also why no new Macs? Supply shortage for displays, chips etc. Could be silent release or later in the year. This sub is so entitled and toxic. We need to chill out
I don't think the forum is toxic unless we cast aside personal responsibility. This forum is nothing more than a venue that we use for a variety of reasons.

MacRumors is a business seeking to make money from Apple related rumors. And if that money needs to come from promoting clickbait stories, said stories will get posted.

The bottom line is that a lot of grown adults allowed themselves to get caught up in the clickbait rumors and then got mad when Apple didn't live up to those imaginary expectations. Unfortunately, this kind of behavior happens all the time on here. A lot of people are quick to embrace pretty much anything they see on here.

When people create false expectations based on rumors created by clickbait whores like Prosser and his ilk, it doesn't matter what Apple does, because it will never be good enough.

There was nothing wrong with yesterday's presentation once you remove al the aforementioned verbal diarrhea. Just because some here didn't get their way, that doesn't mean yesterday was a failure, unless one believes that yesterday's presentation was about meeting every expectation the onlooker had. Sadly, that is the thinking of many here. Apple isn't in the business of meeting every expectation members here have. As long as members here continue to believe that false business narrative, said member will continue to be disappointed on a regular basis with some here throwing temper-tantrums about tech devices.
 
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