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Google Gears couldn't work directly with the iPhone because it requires software to be installed that handles keeping the application files organized and creating a local database that is synced with the live data on the internet. And since we don't have a way of installing anything to the iPhone yet then it wouldn't work.

If Google created an iPhone version of this that Apple blessed, and gave us a way to install it through itunes then it would be perfect.

If Google Gears was pre-installed into Safari, that would solve a lot of the problems mentioned (eg slow or no internet connection), and it would save users having to install extra features to get reliable web apps working.

Steve mentioned in the keynote that one of the main benefits of web apps was that the were less of a security threat because they were sandboxed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't widgets in Mac OS X in a sandbox as well? And you all get a whole lot more integration with the system.

And another thing, didn't Steve in his joint interview with Bill Gates say something along the lines of iPhone's version of Google Maps being way better than Google's web app version because it could use technologies like core animation that aren't available to web apps?????
 
12k?! So - apple closed 3.47% down. You have 12000//3.47% = ~340k invested in Apple. I hope with that much money invested in one stock you realize there will be risk, fluctuations, etc. Hate Steve; but you're the one who put so many eggs in one basket.

A lot of people here seem to be awfully good at math, but know nothing about any type of investment tool other than owning shares in a company.
 
1) Web apps require server access via the internet to operate....2) NO 3G UTMS/HSDPA. ...
3) Reduced developer Incentive. ...4) PalmOS, Windows Mobile, Blackberry's OS, Symbian, and nearly every cellphone OS via JAVA can run 3rd-party applications. ...5) IT RUNS OSX ....6) Multi-touch. ...7) No FLASH support. ...8) No self-contained Widgets? ...9) Hackers/Crackers ...10) still thinking.. maybe one of you can help
...
Uh.. This has NOT been a positive day so far..

</rant>

EXCELLENT post!
 
Google Gears couldn't work directly with the iPhone because it requires software to be installed that handles keeping the application files organized and creating a local database that is synced with the live data on the internet. And since we don't have a way of installing anything to the iPhone yet then it wouldn't work.

If Google created an iPhone version of this that Apple blessed, and gave us a way to install it through itunes then it would be perfect.

Ok well I don't have the technical knowledge, but I thought Gears was an 'extension' to Safari, i.e. not a standalone programme. Maybe this would make a different to its installability
 
It is also worthwhile to note that the iPhone *could* be running a minimal web server locally. Not Apache, but something requiring fewer resources such as thttpd or a java based http server. Obviously that would not be useful if web access were required for the application, but for an application that doesn't need web access (e.g. if someone implemented the Classic 'Puzzle' game) it would suffice.

And in what kind of language would one have to develop on such an application server? If multiple apps are to share the same server, how do you make sure that each app has their own memory and data/file space? If Apple can overcome these problems, they can just as well allow you to write the whole app (including the UI) in this environment = sandbox for 3rd party apps.
 
Hello Everyone! So we've been working really hard to bring 3rd party application support to the iPhone, and we have "come up" with a great solution that will allow you to make beautiful and powerful applications for the iPhone!

[listens to the wonderful applause from the happy developers and savors it]

Um...So here is how it works. This is really awesome!!!...

You create a webpage... and then you browse to it over the internet on the iPhone using Safari... and then you tell everyone it is an "iPhone Application"!!!

Isn't that Wonderful!!! We are really excited to see the beautiful "websites"... I mean "applications", you all will be making with this amazing technology!!!!

[listens to the crickets]

Oh and the great part is that there doesn't need to be an SDK!!! We don't even need to write up a "white paper" describing size standards or iPhone functionality integration code. You all can just figure that out through trial and error.

[listens to more crickets]

And don't worry about not being able to use these applications without an internet connection because you will always be able to get to the internet by using those groove 2 year data plans from AT&T.

Oh and ONE MORE THING....

You can download Safari for Windows now!!!...... Oh, you don't care because you are using a Mac at a Mac Developers Conference?..... Opppss, Sucks for you.

Well....... Hmmmmmmm...... Did I mention that the iPhone runs "OS X"?!?!

Perfect interpretation lol :)
My thoughts exactly
 
It's disappointing that the iPhone is still closed, and it's a shame they've resorted to barely concealed sophistry to hide this. HOWEVER:

This is not intended to be a "smartphone" even if the word was used once at the first iPhone keynote. It's a straightforward multimedia/communications device. It's not what computer enthusiasts and phone industry people think of when they hear "Apple phone", it's what ordinary consumers think of when they hear "iPhone". It's not a computer married to a phone, it's a phone that can do some useful, cool, things in a really cool way, the single personal device that replaces the multitude of personal devices we currently carry (namely, a cellphone and music player.)

Piggybacking onto this is an interesting idea for how user-device interaction might evolve over the coming years, a UI based upon gestures and touch rather than pointing and clicking. It's radically different from what we're used to, and throws out the baby with much of the bathwater. For this to develop, Apple has to work with it for a bit, and get people used to how it should work.

At some point in the future, it seems probable that Apple will release a more open platform. It will probably not be called an iPhone.

People are disappointed they can't program this for a variety of reasons. Part of it is that, as an Apple board, you'd expect a disproportionately high number of computer enthusiasts here. Well, the iPhone is not a computer. It's not unique in that: neither was the iPod.

Part of it is that this feels like the first time anyone will be able to play with Apple's new UI and many of us want to see what it can do. But I don't believe Apple will make this permanently locked to locked-down devices. And third parties will, patents or not, be producing their own equivalent user interfaces over the next few years.

Part of it is Apple's fault: the use of the already defined word "smartphone". And Apple's failure to communicate the reasons for the lack of programmability. Hey, that leads me to a tangent:

- Has Jobs been off his mark of late or what?

I mean, look at this WWDC. There were some really radical things in there, but Teh Steve blustered his way through them as if they were the same as everything else. Hey everybody, Leopard has a new Finder! No, seriously, completely new, totally unlike anything anyone's ever developed before. After regressing with the first Mac OS X Finders, actually making them run in three modes (NEXTSTEP, Mac OS, and, by default, Windows Explorer. What's the deal with that?), they've looked at it and found new approaches that deal with the difficulty identifying files and contents. It's quite amazing.

Normally we'd all oooh, and aaah, and wait for John Siracusa to give us the ten page arstechnica low-down on what works, what doesn't, and what Apple needs to do to fix it. But somehow everyone missed it? What happened?

Oh yeah, it was one feature on a list of (what felt like 100) that Jobs just sped through, treating as just important as the already demonstrated Time Machine (nice, BTW, but it was a mistake to do a whole presentation on it again), etc. That's what the problem was. If the Finder had been, say, 50% of the Leopard part of the presentation, we'd all be going "wow" right now rather than talking about how Jobs somehow forgot to mention anything new.

Anyway, getting back on topic:

- Steve Jobs did the wrong thing in many ways by presenting the phone as something it isn't. He:

  • Announced it at a Mac show (implying it is a computer)
  • Called it a "smartphone", a hot-button word with a specific definition the iPhone is clearly not meant to occupy.
  • Told everyone it runs OS X.
  • Let the discussion about the programmability of the thing happen at all. The last few months have been all "Will they or will they not". In all honesty, a straight "No, iPhone is not a computer, though we plan in future to create devices based upon similar platforms that will be open." would have done it.
  • Gave misleading (that's the polite term) reasons to why iPhone isn't programmable. Cingular's network is that fragile huh?
  • Finally turned up to WWDC and somewhat insultingly suggested developers might be satisfied with the AJAX support of Safari

This is not Jobs at the top of his game.

This is a consumer device intended to replace the iPod and cellphone in your pocket, and be better than the sum of its parts. It's also a radically experimental piece of technology. It is not a computer. If you're still asking if you can program it, you're looking at it the wrong way. This is Apple's equivalent of the RAZR, not the Nokia 9500.
 
iPhone

It's disappointing that the iPhone is still closed, and it's a shame they've resorted to barely concealed sophistry to hide this. HOWEVER:

This is not intended to be a "smartphone" even if the word was used once at the first iPhone keynote. It's a straightforward multimedia/communications device. It's not what computer enthusiasts and phone industry people think of when they hear "Apple phone", it's what ordinary consumers think of when they hear "iPhone". It's not a computer married to a phone, it's a phone that can do some useful, cool, things in a really cool way, the single personal device that replaces the multitude of personal devices we currently carry (namely, a cellphone and music player.)

Piggybacking onto this is an interesting idea for how user-device interaction might evolve over the coming years, a UI based upon gestures and touch rather than pointing and clicking. It's radically different from what we're used to, and throws out the baby with much of the bathwater. For this to develop, Apple has to work with it for a bit, and get people used to how it should work.

At some point in the future, it seems probable that Apple will release a more open platform. It will probably not be called an iPhone.

People are disappointed they can't program this for a variety of reasons. Part of it is that, as an Apple board, you'd expect a disproportionately high number of computer enthusiasts here. Well, the iPhone is not a computer. It's not unique in that: neither was the iPod.

Part of it is that this feels like the first time anyone will be able to play with Apple's new UI and many of us want to see what it can do. But I don't believe Apple will make this permanently locked to locked-down devices. And third parties will, patents or not, be producing their own equivalent user interfaces over the next few years.

Part of it is Apple's fault: the use of the already defined word "smartphone". And Apple's failure to communicate the reasons for the lack of programmability. Hey, that leads me to a tangent:

- Has Jobs been off his mark of late or what?

I mean, look at this WWDC. There were some really radical things in there, but Teh Steve blustered his way through them as if they were the same as everything else. Hey everybody, Leopard has a new Finder! No, seriously, completely new, totally unlike anything anyone's ever developed before. After regressing with the first Mac OS X Finders, actually making them run in three modes (NEXTSTEP, Mac OS, and, by default, Windows Explorer. What's the deal with that?), they've looked at it and found new approaches that deal with the difficulty identifying files and contents. It's quite amazing.

Normally we'd all oooh, and aaah, and wait for John Siracusa to give us the ten page arstechnica low-down on what works, what doesn't, and what Apple needs to do to fix it. But somehow everyone missed it? What happened?

Oh yeah, it was one feature on a list of (what felt like 100) that Jobs just sped through, treating as just important as the already demonstrated Time Machine (nice, BTW, but it was a mistake to do a whole presentation on it again), etc. That's what the problem was. If the Finder had been, say, 50% of the Leopard part of the presentation, we'd all be going "wow" right now rather than talking about how Jobs somehow forgot to mention anything new.

Anyway, getting back on topic:

- Steve Jobs did the wrong thing in many ways by presenting the phone as something it isn't. He:

  • Announced it at a Mac show (implying it is a computer)
  • Called it a "smartphone", a hot-button word with a specific definition the iPhone is clearly not meant to occupy.
  • Told everyone it runs OS X.
  • Let the discussion about the programmability of the thing happen at all. The last few months have been all "Will they or will they not". In all honesty, a straight "No, iPhone is not a computer, though we plan in future to create devices based upon similar platforms that will be open." would have done it.
  • Gave misleading (that's the polite term) reasons to why iPhone isn't programmable. Cingular's network is that fragile huh?
  • Finally turned up to WWDC and somewhat insultingly suggested developers might be satisfied with the AJAX support of Safari

This is not Jobs at the top of his game.

This is a consumer device intended to replace the iPod and cellphone in your pocket, and be better than the sum of its parts. It's also a radically experimental piece of technology. It is not a computer. If you're still asking if you can program it, you're looking at it the wrong way. This is Apple's equivalent of the RAZR, not the Nokia 9500.

Very insightful. It seems that by merely addressing things like 3rd party development, smartphone, and OS X, one only creates greater entanglements with expectations and speculation. The iPod was introduced with less misleading fanfare and therefore with less scrutiny overall. The iPhone indeed has the potential to be a full fledged computer running OS X, and will likely evolve to that level sooner than later. Also, for those who say "There is no bad publicity," a little 'positive' goes a long way in this 'Paris Hilton' era.
 
And in what kind of language would one have to develop on such an application server? If multiple apps are to share the same server, how do you make sure that each app has their own memory and data/file space? If Apple can overcome these problems, they can just as well allow you to write the whole app (including the UI) in this environment = sandbox for 3rd party apps.

If you read my post I was suggesting that the iPhone could be running one already - we don't know. It was in response to someone saying that AJAX couldn't run without internet access and this is one possibility that Apple may have considered to remedy that. The engineers at Apple are not idiots and I find it hard to believe they wouldn't have noticed the problems and thought of fixes. (Perhaps not for 1.0, but 1.1 or 2.0).

Anyway, I wasn't suggesting that devleopers write one from scratch, just that they use the built in Apple one. There are plenty of low resource httpd servers out there already that Apple could use.

Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer a different solution in addition to what they announced yesterday, but until there are 'perfect' solutions out there, people should be thinking about ways around perceived problems.

Given the lack of openness on the iPod (from what I've seen), every little bit is an advance.
 
[*]Gave misleading (that's the polite term) reasons to why iPhone isn't programmable. Cingular's network is that fragile huh?

I don't really see any relation to Cingular's network and the limitations [or lack thereof] of local iPhone apps. On the contrary, making AJAX only type apps supported seems like it would put an exponential amount of excess stress on Cingular's network; anything being pulled live via AJAX is lots of data. Since most heavy users would have unlimited data plans, this means Cingular's slow network is going to get literally killed with data overflow if this even catches on a little bit.

On the other hand, if they had local application support that only needed to query data when necessary, the load and processing is put on the iPhone end. This not only provides a 100000x better experience, but allows the application to run efficiently and use the small data bandwidth to the minimal amount.

Unless someone can dispute this, the Cingular-end of the equation is out of the question -- they didn't do this or most likely had any influence over it. If anything, I would guess that they are actually highly against it.
 
iPhone Apps

I don't really see any relation to Cingular's network and the limitations [or lack thereof] of local iPhone apps. On the contrary, making AJAX only type apps supported seems like it would put an exponential amount of excess stress on Cingular's network; anything being pulled live via AJAX is lots of data. Since most heavy users would have unlimited data plans, this means Cingular's slow network is going to get literally killed with data overflow if this even catches on a little bit.

On the other hand, if they had local application support that only needed to query data when necessary, the load and processing is put on the iPhone end. This not only provides a 100000x better experience, but allows the application to run efficiently and use the small data bandwidth to the minimal amount.

Unless someone can dispute this, the Cingular-end of the equation is out of the question -- they didn't do this or most likely had any influence over it. If anything, I would guess that they are actually highly against it.

This makes good sense - If 3rd party apps are off for rev A, then let the iPhone launch successfully before releasing a SDK. Web apps will only further strain the network, which is already too narrow for what it's about to have unleashed upon it.
 
Even SJ Agrees with Me!

If Google Gears was pre-installed into Safari, that would solve a lot of the problems mentioned (eg slow or no internet connection), and it would save users having to install extra features to get reliable web apps working.

And another thing, didn't Steve in his joint interview with Bill Gates say something along the lines of iPhone's version of Google Maps being way better than Google's web app version because it could use technologies like core animation that aren't available to web apps?????

Google Gears is a great browser plugin - But if they can get (or maybe more like "allow") gears on there, they sure as hell can get (allow) Adobe flash and even a JVM plugin.

More importantly, Yes, Steve basically said that they created a rich native client for Google Maps because you "just can't do that on a browser"... Here is the full text below from All Things D with Steve Jobs and Bill Gates.. its really quite astounding:

Steve: I’ll give you a concrete example. I love Google Maps, use it on my computer, you know, in a browser. But when we were doing the iPhone, we thought, wouldn’t it be great to have maps on the iPhone? And so we called up Google and they’d done a few client apps in Java on some phones and they had an API that we worked with them a little on. And we ended up writing a client app for those APIs. They would provide the back-end service. And the app we were able to write ... blows away any Google Maps client. Just blows it away. Same set of data coming off the server, but the experience you have using it is unbelievable. It’s way better than the computer. And just in a completely different league than what they’d put on phones before. And, you know, that client is the result of a lot of technology on the client, that client application. So when we show it to them, they’re just blown away by how good it is. And you can’t do that stuff in a browser.

So people are figuring out how to do more in a browser, how to get a persistent state of things when you’re disconnected from a browser, how do you actually run apps locally using, you know, apps written in those technologies so they can be pretty transparent, whether you’re connected or not.
But it’s happening fairly slowly and there’s still a lot you can do with a rich client environment. At the same time, the hardware is progressing to where you can run a rich client environment on lower and lower cost devices, on lower and lower power devices. And so there’s some pretty cool things you can do with clients.

Walt: OK. So you’re saying rich clients still matter, but–maybe I misunderstood you, but your example was about a rich client that is not a personal computer as we have thought of a personal computer.

Steve: What I’m saying is, I think the marriage of some really great [native] client apps with some really great cloud services is incredibly powerful and right now, can be way more powerful than just having a browser on the client.


EXACTLY STEVE!! The Ideal (and only IMO) 3rd-party application support is allowing sandboxed native rich-client applications utilizing Cocoa/Core Animation/Multi-touch SDKs that can also retrieve data/sync to the internet *when its available*!!!

link here http://d5.allthingsd.com/20070531/d5-gates-jobs-transcript/
 
I don't really see any relation to Cingular's network and the limitations [or lack thereof] of local iPhone apps.

You misunderstand me. One of the first "excuses" Jobs gave for the lack of programmability was that Cingular's network could collapse if someone wrote an application that crashed. I was giving it as an example of one of the misleading (polite term) "explanations".
 
You misunderstand me. One of the first "excuses" Jobs gave for the lack of programmability was that Cingular's network could collapse if someone wrote an application that crashed. I was giving it as an example of one of the misleading (polite term) "explanations".

Ahem ;)
Well it was fun to type anyways.
 
First, folks... some COLD WATER for ya.

Clearly, Apple/AT&T will be introducing a new data plan price, and requiring ALL iPhone users to have that data plan, NO CHOICE. In order to even unlock wireless Wi-Fi access, you will need to sign-up for the data plan. This is intended to be an Internet-capable device, not a "a la carte" offering.

So, that said... kind of makes all the muelling over web apps mostly pointless. For the question of "what about offline support", well, we don't have an answer yet, DO WE. NO WE DON'T. We have NO ANSWER yet, on what is possible.

I have a question for you. Aspiring to be the world's best phone Interface... do you think iPhone will show you cached pages for offline browsing in any event? Might there be user-controllable caching behavior? What will the "cannot connect to page" look like?

Apple's doing something very complicated releasing this thing. Should it make lots of promises and say everything it'll ship with (even in the event that there is a last minute problem that causes a feature to drop), or should they sell on what they KNOW, and then work towards everything else post-launch?

I'm sorry, I just can't help seeing everyone who can't get past writing apps online, and how headers and Safari caching could work towards a brand new solution. Personally, I want to get some user-created shortcuts on the iPhone homepage. All this complaining makes no sense to me UNTIL the phone is physically in our hand, and we're complaining about REAL shortcomings, and not just picking on a company that wants to under-promise and over-deliver on a device that's had tons more hype than it ever needed.

~ CB
 
so what brought us wwdc 2007 besides the release of crappy iPhone?!
this on apple.com only? well, I knew all that about leopard... so did you.

I thought there would be some major updates, as every year...
 
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