x86 OS X Kernel Becomming Closed-Source?

[yellow]

OK, I'm wrong. Everyone knows it but me.

I guess my point was that the Mach kernel as part of OS X was conceived from the already modified Mach kernel used by NeXTSTEP as a base, not directly from the BSD Mach kernel, which portions of which were then borrowed to form the Mach kernel that OS X uses today.

 

[ChrisA]

...I'd never even bother hacking the kernel, or whatever it is that people do, but just knowing that I could if I needed to is nice to know.

Get a Linux system. Linux "feels" quite a bit like Mac OX. Of course all the applications are different. You'd be using Gimp in place of Photoshop but Linux is completely open source and GPL'd.

I use both. Iused Linux for server and for day to day work developing software and Mac OSX for photo/video editing and related work.

 

[j-a-x]

This kinda sucks, but im not too surprised with all the piracy stuff going on (mac os x on generic intel). At least I think that's the cause of this...

 

[backdraft]

Well at least the PPC version of the kernel is still open. Pesky Intel...

 

[milo]

The only thing this shows is that apple (other than it is a hypocrite) is sure that they cannot sell macs just based on coolness factor.

That makes no sense at all. If OSX can be run on any box, you will have people building their own pc's and installing a copy of OSX for free. Apple can't compete with that, "coolness" has nothing to do with it.

Can you really blame them? With the PPC version, nobody else sells a hardware box that you could run it on as an alternative to mac hardware. If they released the PPC version, they just make it easier for the pirates to create install disks for bootleg copies that will run on any machine.

 

[grockk]

After reading about this to took a look at the hacker who originally hacked 10.4.4's website and he still doesn't seem to have hacked 10.4.6 also a search on [a pirating site] came up fruitless for Mac OS X 10.4.6, I think the hackers are having problems hacking OS X for Intel at the moment. I'm sure when Leapard comes out it'll be hacked but it seems unlikely that you'll be getting too many free updates of the software, which makes a real Apple Mac superior to any hacked x86 generic Mac.

Search harder. There are 10.4.6 install DVD's out there.

 

[richat]

Reading between the lines

Ok here's how I see it, maybe right, maybe wrong...

The only folks who may be interested in messing with the kernel are some serious power users who need to sacrifice one part of performance to enhance another part of performance, and ofcourse the hackers who want to steal the OS.

Apple closed the kernel not Darwin several revisions of OSX ago.

Apple is going to introduce the new version of OSX in August.

Apple has been rumored to be messing around with changing the kernel in order to allow new and improved functions. It is rumored also that in order to take advantage of some of the niceties Intel is bringing down the pike, a new kernel will be necessary.

Apple is going to be introducing the new PowerMacs or whatever your gonna call them in August.

Apple needs some performance changes in everything to make these new PowerMac's price closely equal value. In other words, something really cool has to be introduced in these puppy's in order to SELL them at all.

And I suppose lastly, Apple has a habbit of shutting things off quietly while noone's looking, only to reintroduce something better sometime later. I'm sure you guys have seen that move before...

Now feel free to tear into me for my observations...

 

[bosrs1]

I find no problem with this. Apple wants to control their OS, which is their property. They don't want OS X to be run on non-Apple PCs, and that's fine.

Yeah this is a great move by them. Notice that the last version they had out w/ the source was 10.4.3 which I believe was the last one OSX86 hacked. This should definitely put a hamper on those bozos.

 

[yac_moda]

I just saw the coolest commercial

One guys was talking and said he was a Mac and ...


... the other talked a little bit and the FROZE, a couple of times, Oh he said he was a PC


Sounds like a GOOD reason to me to bring the cornel in, especially with all those hackers out there that could look at and use the open code to HACK

 

[Starflyer]

Yeah this is a great move by them. Notice that the last version they had out w/ the source was 10.4.3 which I believe was the last one OSX86 hacked. This should definitely put a hamper on those bozos.

These "bozos" probably know more about OSX than we ever will...If you would read this thread and do a little research there are 10.4.6 Install DVD's out there...

 

[jMini]

free source??

I think os x has changed so much since it's open source routes, that it can be allowed to keep itself a bit secret; especially since the...
"Hi I’m a Mac, write a virus for me" advert (exaggerated),
not sure about the t&c&... that goes with open source oses.

[off topic again]love the fact that this box supports overwriting when your press the insert key. I miss that functionality in allot of programs [/off topic again sorry...]

 

[toxicfreak]

how stupid Apple is

do they really beleave that this will stop hacker please .......
they just once again gave them a reason to prouve that i can be done doh.
in a few week/month will hear that they brake into it again .....



piracy cannot be stop period

 

[sord]

I though the Kernel was based on the opne FreeBSD...

Even if it was, FreeBSD is released under the BSD license. The only thing Apple would have to do is retain the copyright notice somewhere. The BSD license is nothing like GPL.

 

[myamid]

Linux "feels" quite a bit like Mac OX.

......?? Are you on acid??
Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for what Linux has achieved, but it's light-years from being close to OSX in most regards... Most applications are either very crude (often very efficient, but crude...) or feel like they've been thrown together by the geek-squad to solve 1 problem (as opposed as being very flexible), preventing it from being Really good...

That being said, your point about it being all GPL is well taken, although I personally fail to see the insentive in that if the finished product makes for a poor workstation solution... Hackable? Yes. Better than closed-source software? In most cases, no.

 

[jhu]

speaking of the xnu kernel, i did compile my own xnu kernel a few times on my g3. my custom kernel turned out to be only several kb smaller than stock. well, it was fun at least.

 

[MrCrowbar]

I just saw the coolest commercial

One guys was talking and said he was a Mac and ...


... the other talked a little bit and the FROZE, a couple of times, Oh he said he was a PC


Sounds like a GOOD reason to me to bring the cornel in, especially with all those hackers out there that could look at and use the open code to HACK

You can watch all the adds on Apple.com
Here's the one you're talking about in HD: http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/?networking_medium

 

[theBB]

From Tom Yager's opinion: "Users in demanding fields such as biosciences or meteorology do hack OS kernels to slim them down, alter the balance between throughput and computing, and to open them to the resources of a massive grid. The availability of Intel’s top-shelf compilers, debuggers, libraries, and profilers create unprecedented opportunities to optimize OS X for specific applications."

I am surprised that Mac is considered a viable player in these areas in the first place. I'd say if you need such demanding and specific applications, Linux is a better choice. You don't need nice looking OSX GUI for these applications and you probably should not waste RAM or CPU resources by running a browser, a word processor etc. on such a server so that the machine just concentrates on your CAD tool, simulator, equation solver etc.

 

[cybermiguel]

Maybe this has to do with the rumor that they are dropping Mach support...just a thought

I just thought that too!!!!!

 

[budugu]

I am surprised that Mac is considered a viable player in these areas in the first place. I'd say if you need such demanding and specific applications, Linux is a better choice. You don't need nice looking OSX GUI for these applications and you probably should not waste RAM or CPU resources by running a browser, a word processor etc. on such a server so that the machine just concentrates on your CAD tool, simulator, equation solver etc.

Academics is the last strong hold of macs (save the lunatics) especially in life sciences that you mentioned. Engineers moved away from it long time ago. Every tested what is the computer skill of a bio-major? or infact most profs? Most of the stuff is taken care by some one else (computing services that charges a huge amount from the research grant). If it has a nice GUI these people will step forward and use it (like GUI wrappers on existing scripted/Unix code). CAD tools are hardly required in the demographic you presented.

 

[Analog Kid]

Maybe this has to do with the rumor that they are dropping Mach support...just a thought

Doesn't really explain why they've closed the source to OS versions that are Mach though...

 

[theBB]

Academics is the last strong hold of macs (save the lunatics) especially in life sciences that you mentioned. Engineers moved away from it long time ago. Every tested what is the computer skill of a bio-major? or infact most profs? Most of the stuff is taken care by some one else... ...If it has a nice GUI these people will step forward and use it (like GUI wrappers on existing scripted/Unix code).

I see what you are saying, but I don't think this demographic would be messing with the kernel in the first place. If they have a demanding computation that could benefit from optimized kernels, they will either submit the script to a supercomputer or a multiCPU server to be run. Thus, either no GUI interaction or no kernel modification.

Am I missing something?

 

[boncellis]

I remember quite a few people in this forum bashing Dr. Tevanian when he left Apple to "pursue other interests" earlier this year. Now with this development, what is the likelihood that the kernel gets revamped completely?

I don't know much about the pros and cons of the current system, but I always liked the philosophy of implementing open source componentry within OS X. Oh well, as long as it works like before...

 

[yac_moda]

You can watch all the adds on Apple.com
Here's the one you're talking about in HD: http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/?networking_medium

Thinks for the ethusiasm but its this one:
http://movies.apple.com/movies/us/apple/getamac_ads1/restarting_480x376.mov

You have to control key, click, and "copy link" to make sure you get the one you want

This one is the BEST though because does a HARD CRASH at the end
http://movies.apple.com/movies/us/apple/getamac_ads1/viruses_480x376.mov

I still think the PC guy looks like the prefect cross between Billy G. and Balmer !!!

 

[sdunlapa]

Thanks Apple you just stated the obvious, money always comes first.

What's wrong with making money? That is why businesses are in business...to make money/profit. Why is that such a bad thing? Would you rather Apple give away everything for cost or a loss? Doing that means no more Apple.

The best thing a company can do is be profitable so that they are around in the future. That way you can always go back to that business and buy more things.

 

[mambodancer]

OS X for Intel

It's entirely possible that this move is to secure the OS for an eventual release by Apple of OS X for intel PC's.