Originally posted by JoeRadar
Maybe this is a secret plan by MS to hurt iMac and PowerMac sales.
You laugh, but I really wouldn't be surprised...
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Xbox and PowerPC Speculation
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You laugh, but I really wouldn't be surprised...
Re: This is Insane
Uh... it's IBM's chip, actually...
The G5 system chip is Apples and probably can't be sourced to anyone else, but the 970 is IBMs and they can probably give it to whoever they please.
Uh... it's IBM's chip, actually...
The G5 system chip is Apples and probably can't be sourced to anyone else, but the 970 is IBMs and they can probably give it to whoever they please.
Re: This is Insane
It's not an Apple chip, it's an IBM chip. I also think your assertions about adware are unfounded, Apple has never integrated this stuff into their software, stop trolling.
It's not an Apple chip, it's an IBM chip. I also think your assertions about adware are unfounded, Apple has never integrated this stuff into their software, stop trolling.
Don't underestimate the impact of this as a negotiating tactic with Intel. Just like AMD is used.
This won't mean Windows on PPC. The whole *point* it seems is to prevent people from using these as general purpose computers...
ARgh, can't find the post, but somewhere someone asked if this could mean more games getting written to OpenGL and I was just going to point out that if i remember right, Microsoft bought the OpenGL assets from SGI-- they own it.
No I don't, and no it doesn't. A lot depends on how Apple's attitude and approach would change given a larger market share or monopolistic control-- and that would be a different thread.
Re: Something stinks about PPC for Microsoft
It is just possible that MS can't fit a hotter Pentium into an enclosure they want to-- or they think all the noisy air blowers would ruin the game play.
It's also possible that you're right-- tease IBM for a while and then leave. Put the pressure on Intel, get a look into IBMs fabs, maybe rile up a little angst among your competitors who are also using IBM as a source, get the Apple rumor boards all in a tizzy...
If that's the case, IBM would have no one to blame but themselves... It's not like this would be the first time that would have happened. Not really the second time either...
It is just possible that MS can't fit a hotter Pentium into an enclosure they want to-- or they think all the noisy air blowers would ruin the game play.
It's also possible that you're right-- tease IBM for a while and then leave. Put the pressure on Intel, get a look into IBMs fabs, maybe rile up a little angst among your competitors who are also using IBM as a source, get the Apple rumor boards all in a tizzy...
If that's the case, IBM would have no one to blame but themselves... It's not like this would be the first time that would have happened. Not really the second time either...
PPC + XBOX != OS X + XBOX
Seriously, there's no way you could run OS X on any machine not made by Apple. PPC doesn't equal OS X. If it did then there would be any number of "beige box" PPC motherboards out there to run OS X on... think about it.
On the other hand you could possibly run Darwin and X11 or PPC Linux with some firmware hacks in place (most likely required... to connect with other hardware). Some OS X apps could run under Darwin if compiled without Quartz GUI in place but at that point why not just run Linux?
Seriously, there's no way you could run OS X on any machine not made by Apple. PPC doesn't equal OS X. If it did then there would be any number of "beige box" PPC motherboards out there to run OS X on... think about it.
On the other hand you could possibly run Darwin and X11 or PPC Linux with some firmware hacks in place (most likely required... to connect with other hardware). Some OS X apps could run under Darwin if compiled without Quartz GUI in place but at that point why not just run Linux?
I dunno, I don't think we'll see an xBox using a G5. I could be wrong, but still this doesn't sound right. You'd think they could just work with AMD or something, like they did before they went with Intel. Maybe using an IBM interconnect and cheap, low power AMD chips? Wasn't AMD working with IBM in Fishkill? Wouldn't using native x86 be better than some kind of emulation? Then again, if that were the case, they could have just used an AMD/nVidia chipset of something.
I'm just saying that this is just commentary based on speculation. And we all know how accurate analysts are...
Would be pretty funny if it were true though, and people put Linux in it anyway, like you can already do with the PS2.
I'm just saying that this is just commentary based on speculation. And we all know how accurate analysts are...
Would be pretty funny if it were true though, and people put Linux in it anyway, like you can already do with the PS2.
Powerbook G5s?
My question is whether these new stripped down, less cache less power hungry PPC 970 chips could make their way into Powerbooks?
Now that IBM has a big consumer for low-power PPC 970s this seems like a possibility.
My question is whether these new stripped down, less cache less power hungry PPC 970 chips could make their way into Powerbooks?
Now that IBM has a big consumer for low-power PPC 970s this seems like a possibility.
FYI
This isn't true.
Microsoft bought certain IP from SGI related to OpenGL. Enough to potentially be a pain in the ass to the OpenGL consortium, but your assertion of anyone "owning" OpenGL is inaccurate.
There is intellectual property as part of OpenGL that is owned by several companies.
This isn't true.
Microsoft bought certain IP from SGI related to OpenGL. Enough to potentially be a pain in the ass to the OpenGL consortium, but your assertion of anyone "owning" OpenGL is inaccurate.
There is intellectual property as part of OpenGL that is owned by several companies.
Assuming IBM and M$ are not blowing smoke up you know where.
M$ wants a low cost processor, but more important is a low cost system. Perhaps IBM has something up their sleeve, like a PPC970x on 90nm design rules. 90nm to get size, cost and power down.
They probably don't want a high end system controller like on the G5 series machines. Single processor only.
So perhaps a 970 variant with on board memory controller. Local bus (hypertransport-ish) to graphics controller (ATI I think) and Hypertransport to IO.
Not only would make a great Xbox 2 but mighty fine iMac (consumer line) as well !
M$ wants a low cost processor, but more important is a low cost system. Perhaps IBM has something up their sleeve, like a PPC970x on 90nm design rules. 90nm to get size, cost and power down.
They probably don't want a high end system controller like on the G5 series machines. Single processor only.
So perhaps a 970 variant with on board memory controller. Local bus (hypertransport-ish) to graphics controller (ATI I think) and Hypertransport to IO.
Not only would make a great Xbox 2 but mighty fine iMac (consumer line) as well !
okay, heres my opinion, xbox 2 will not even use a ibm chip.. i read on ign.com (very reliable) that they did confirm a semicondtodor deal with ibm but ibm could be making anything (hard drive - mother board) there is absolutly no reaon for microsoft to break there long going friendship with intel. And the only reason they would, would be to stop piracy and hacking and using the xbox as a omputer but a wonderful remedy to this problem would be to have intel make a chip exclusivley for xbox. Plus y would microsoft switch processor makers if they did they would loose direct x THEY INVENTED DRECTX!!!!!
Rumors are supposed to be about things that haven't happened yet, aren't they? The PPC was one of the original platforms Windows NT ran on -- along with the 80486, Pentium, Pentium Pro, DEC Alpha, and MIPS R4x00.
I've got a Windows NT Workstation 4.0 CD somewhere around here, and it's printed riight on the front that it includes code for all those architectures. I used it to install NT on my G5. (No, not as the boot OS! It's running under Bochs.)
Kinda funny that M$ supported all those architectures, then dropped them one by one... they could've given a lot more of a fight to Linux.
They did this same thing to AMD back when the first xbox came out. It was anounced that the xbox would use a amd duron chip then at the very last possible minute MS switched to Intel Celeron/P3 variant.
Besided i read somewhere that MS will be using the new AMD 64 chip in the xbox. (just kidding). but it would make so much more sense for them to use the amd 64 cpu over some variant of the g5. If the graphics card issue can be over come the use of another x86 would support previous xbox titles if they wanted it to.
Unless IBM is secretly developing a intel killing x86 chip, IBM will never show up in xbox.
Besided i read somewhere that MS will be using the new AMD 64 chip in the xbox. (just kidding). but it would make so much more sense for them to use the amd 64 cpu over some variant of the g5. If the graphics card issue can be over come the use of another x86 would support previous xbox titles if they wanted it to.
Unless IBM is secretly developing a intel killing x86 chip, IBM will never show up in xbox.
Which means that you are actually running the x86 version, since Bochs emulates an x86 processor...
true or no
MS would be making a smart move by going with the PPC for a game machine. For one, they get a customizable architecture, with a full 64 bit PPC core, which could include Altivec, memory controller, DSP, network processor, and even graphics from IBM partner nvidia. More than likely it will be very low power consumption compared to an x86 variant. Moreover, since IBM makes the 405LP PPC, it would be possible to create a handheld game machine, without going to another development system, a bonus for developers (why hasn't Apple used this chip yet?).
IBM's design automation, embedded experience, and the fully scalable and low power PPC architecture may be the reasons that so many of the console manufacturers are partnered with IBM.
MS would be making a smart move by going with the PPC for a game machine. For one, they get a customizable architecture, with a full 64 bit PPC core, which could include Altivec, memory controller, DSP, network processor, and even graphics from IBM partner nvidia. More than likely it will be very low power consumption compared to an x86 variant. Moreover, since IBM makes the 405LP PPC, it would be possible to create a handheld game machine, without going to another development system, a bonus for developers (why hasn't Apple used this chip yet?).
IBM's design automation, embedded experience, and the fully scalable and low power PPC architecture may be the reasons that so many of the console manufacturers are partnered with IBM.
Just to point out some information that I dont think has already been mentioned...
IBM Produce the PPC chips used in thier own range of servers and the new apple kit. AMD have signed a contract to produce their new chips at the Fishkill plant when they start to move down to lower die sizes and a joint R&D in some areas.
ATI has been signed as the new GPU provider for the XBOX2 in a move away from Nvidia. ATI already produce the GPU for the Gamecube which uses a ppc chip designed and built by....IBM.
Does anyone else see a link here???
Makes more sense than a Ath/Opt - ATI link, though personal preference would prefer a Opt - Nvidia based machine, but i cant have everything can I?
Eck
IBM Produce the PPC chips used in thier own range of servers and the new apple kit. AMD have signed a contract to produce their new chips at the Fishkill plant when they start to move down to lower die sizes and a joint R&D in some areas.
ATI has been signed as the new GPU provider for the XBOX2 in a move away from Nvidia. ATI already produce the GPU for the Gamecube which uses a ppc chip designed and built by....IBM.
Does anyone else see a link here???
Makes more sense than a Ath/Opt - ATI link, though personal preference would prefer a Opt - Nvidia based machine, but i cant have everything can I?
Eck
