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Xbox and PowerPC Technology

DirectX PPC

Originally posted by Tulse
Not gonna happen -- HL2 has apparently ditched OpenGL in favour of DirectX, which means no Mac compatibility.
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um obviously that wouldn't be a problem since DirectX is microsoft and this whole thread is about microsoft switching to PPC.
 
Re: DirectX PPC

Originally posted by i_am_a_cow
um obviously that wouldn't be a problem since DirectX is microsoft and this whole thread is about microsoft switching to PPC.
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No, this thread is about Xbox 2 potentially using IBM PPC-based processors. "Microsoft" switching to PPC suggests that they'll be making Windows et al for PPC, which is incorrect.

--Cless
 
Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
I wonder if they didn't mean 3 IBM designed processors - one (or two) of them being 970 derivatives and the other(s) being support chip(s).

I've never seen a 3 CPU machine. I suppose it is possible, but it always seems that (other than "1") CPU's always travel in even numbers.
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Actually, I believe that for things like SMP to work at highest efficiency, it's not just a matter of even numbers of procs, but powers of two. So the most common configs would be 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, etc. procs.
 
Originally posted by SiliconAddict
:rolleyes: Ya people have been saying this almost as long as the people that have been claiming that Apple is dead. Reality time: x86 isn't going anywhere when you consider AMD's latest offerings are neck and neck, and in some cases a tad ahead, with IBM.
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Well, for the record, AMD doesn't run x86 architecture. They have their own RISC architecture, and have a hardware x86 adaptor on the front end of it. Regardless, if MS thought that Intel was having problems with newer chips, they very well could start looking at providing a PPC version of Windows. I have little doubt that they've had one running in the back room. After all, WinNT4 shipped a PPC version for a while. And XP has much of the same architecture under the hood. It would really be simply a matter of having kept it up as a back room project...
 
what was the old rule:
" No one ever got fired for buying IBM"

my how things come full circle in 30 years


:D :D :D
 
Xbox games on Macs???

I wonder about the potential for an Xbox 2 emulator for the G5. Macs gain instant credibility as a gaming platform. MSoft can boast greater market-share for the Xbox platform and make money off games. Charge $99-149 for the emulator and there should be a lot of takers, assuming similar performance levels.
 
Originally posted by Snowy_River
Well, for the record, AMD doesn't run x86 architecture. They have their own RISC architecture, and have a hardware x86 adaptor on the front end of it.
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Ummm, well, by that definition, Intel doesn't run x86 architecture anymore, and hasn't since the last 486 rolled off the assembly line. All Pentiums have just been RISC cores with an x86 translation layer.

[Note: I believe it was the Pentium; if not, it was Pentium Pro/Pentium2/Pentium3 which went full RISC core ... in any case, Intel has been doing RISC processors for a good long time now ...]
 
Originally posted by jettredmont
Ummm, well, by that definition, Intel doesn't run x86 architecture anymore, and hasn't since the last 486 rolled off the assembly line. All Pentiums have just been RISC cores with an x86 translation layer.

[Note: I believe it was the Pentium; if not, it was Pentium Pro/Pentium2/Pentium3 which went full RISC core ... in any case, Intel has been doing RISC processors for a good long time now ...]
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So, although I agree, it does seem that they're not doing it very well, lately.
 
Size?

If they are planning on using anything like the G5 how big is this thing going to be? I mean look at the heat-sinks in the PowerMac, and the wind-tunnels on the Xserve.
 
Re: Why?

What you are saying below is that you don't understand the term next generation and how that applies to software and hardware. MS could continue to use a single processor but it is not going to be able to contend with the competition as both of them are moving to multiprocessing.

The issue is simply this, to be able to affer new and novel gaming experiences the hardware manufactures have no choice but to go the multiprocessing route. There is not a CPU made today that can handle everything a game designer could throw at the system. Single CPU machines are not seeing the performance growth they need for the desk top or the game market, so alternatives must be found. I'd be surprised if in a year and a halfs time, you would be able to purchase any Mac with a single processor. There are just to many advantages, as can be seen in Apples dualie sales numbers, for Apple to ignore this.

As in all things the trick is for pricing to be acceptable. Here Apple is going to have a majore advantage as a dual core PPC will probally be smaller than the competitions single core units.

Thanks
Dave


Originally posted by guyute
I really don't see a need for two g5 processors in a game system. If the xbox has a p3 in it and is able to run games like halo without hickup, why would you waste your money with three chips. I see it being feasible having a single 64bit chip when it launches but nothing more is really needed. Xbox needs an awesome graphics card and that is it. You have to realize that a game system only runs games, no printer drivers, no advanced os, etc. I think this is a hoax. It is true that ms is using ibm chip as its main cpu and ati as its graphics. But that is really about all the facts that are known right now.
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And are you guys going to have a heartattack when the CPU in that box is faster than a G5, vastly cheaper and MS turns a profit?

Look at it like this: It might very well turn out that MS will use this as cheap ammo against Apple when they can sell "G5" boxes vastly cheaper and still be profitable than Apple does.

Apart from that, to most it will be absolutely meaningless what is inside an Xbox2. Does anyone give a damn about the current CPU? How many use it for anything but gaming? Do you really believe MS will allow good ports of games to Macs?

Do you believe that G5 CPUs are going to be cheaper when this starts rolling? certainly not. These are branched of versions of the chip, not G5s. No benefit for you.

Dream on. As far as Apple is concerned this is absolutely meaningless.
 
I don't see lower pirces for Macs cause of that

1. Computers (and Macs are just computers in the end) consist of many parts.

The CPU still takes a bunch of the total value, but not as much as in the past.

This is one reason we won't see much difference, cause there just IS not much difference.

1899 instead of 1999 - oh yeeah wow.. still a lof of money; noone will claim that it was the CPU (even if it was)

2. Apple has a high margin but overall (compared to other direct pc sellers like dell or hp) a low volume.

sure, they would like to welcome a higher volume, but not if overall profit shrinks.

So apple will invest the money the get from lower costs on CPUs on other techniques and R&D, or even on higher clockspeeds.

In the end there will be no difference in price policy, but if, then only in technology.

either apple keeps the extra margin, but as far as i guess they are not that stupid again, or they reinvest it.

result: machines will stay the same price.

3. what it will help to us (apple customers)

if ibm produces, devilers and develops more cpus of the type apple needs (and so we want, or should want), the cpu development and process innovation will go on - and apple will profit from it; and intel (and so wintel) will NOT profit from it.

remember the rumors how much ibm wants to charge from intel?

the jump onto ibm's ppc from nintendo, sony(somehow at least) and microsoft will make sure that there will be ibm cpus in apple systems for the next few years for sure, and that we wont see a drop down like it happend to motorola; and to apple as well cause of that.


just my thoughts

;)
 
Originally posted by thies
And are you guys going to have a heartattack when the CPU in that box is faster than a G5, vastly cheaper and MS turns a profit?
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First you have to realize that Apple willbe running faster 970's and derivatives in the future. Besides, no one besides a few linux hackers, even takes notice that the current xbox can pass as a PC.
Look at it like this: It might very well turn out that MS will use this as cheap ammo against Apple when they can sell "G5" boxes vastly cheaper and still be profitable than Apple does.
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I don't think we are going to see the word profitability and game console hardware used in the same sentence anytime in the near future. The profits are in the software.
Apart from that, to most it will be absolutely meaningless what is inside an Xbox2. Does anyone give a damn about the current CPU? How many use it for anything but gaming? Do you really believe MS will allow good ports of games to Macs?
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Well you are right about the users point of view about what is inside the XBOX.
Do you believe that G5 CPUs are going to be cheaper when this starts rolling? certainly not. These are branched of versions of the chip, not G5s. No benefit for you.
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Yes I do believe that they will be cheaper. There are a number of reasons for that but one is utilization of plant equipment. Besides no one has yet indicated that they are branched versions or that Apple wouln't use them to gain competitve advantage. PPC is a very flexible standard, a great deal of functionality may be added to the chip and still keep it compatible with yesterdays hardware and software.
Dream on. As far as Apple is concerned this is absolutely meaningless.
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Well this may very well be somones dream but if there is any reality at all in the proposed machines this is very good news for Apple. Number one advantage beyond hardware costs is that game designers would have to take into consideration optimizing for the G5/970 or the PPC in general. Currently very few games are ever optimized for Mac hardware. There probally won't be enough compatability to optimize the software equally between the XBOX2 and the Mac but there will be enough to make a differrence.

Dave

 
Re: iMax

Originally posted by rweidmann
O assume that the $2000 iMac that ships when the Xbox 2 shipt has more oomph than the $300 xbox. Bodes well for the iMac.
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Of course, by that time the iMac will have a 42" plamsa monitor hanging on that little arm so it will still cost $2000+
:p
 
It is far too early to say what (if any) effect this will have on Apple. More people using IBM PPC's could either mean that IBM will be able to start producing chips in such quantities that the price per chip would go down (which would probably only have a minimal effect on an Mac's price).
On the other hand, if everyone wants PPC's because the are the best chip out there (not saying they, just for arguments sake), isn' t there the possibility that demand could outweigh supply and Apple's price per chip could go down.
Heck even if the whole windows world went to PPC that does that mean that you would be able to run OS X on a PPC based Dell or LongHorn on a G5?
I do not profess to be in expert in such matters, but it is my understanding that there is a lot more to it than just the processor. After all, otherwise couldn't anyone who could get PPC970s build a Mac Clone?
 
I can't belive those people actually believed that BS.

Today's G5 core x3 in less than two years for under 200 dollars, in a system, with a gfx solution "much faster" than R400 (which will still be in the mid-level range of ATI products (150-250 dollars per card) in two years), a hard drive AND a blue-laser DVD?

Right. And monkeys might fly out of my butt...


If the projected release date was 2007, and the cost was 300 without a controller, I might just buy into this "rumor."

Here's another, more likely rumor, though: The G6 will be released in sufficient quantity to take 50% of the marketshare in July 04.

You heard it here first!

Idiots...
 
powerpc in the next microsoft xbox ?
why not ?

nintendo is using a modified powerpc in their gamecube... when they were selling them for 200 $ without a game they made money with it...without even selling 1 game...microsoft made a loss of 100$ when they selled the xbox for 400$ without a game ..

those 'cheap' intel/nvidia components were actually more expensive than custom made chips by ibm,nec and ati
 
dude, the GameCube PPC chip isn't 64 bit.

Look, i'm all for rumors, but when a "news" site like mercury posts this information as being "leaked" from MS, that's a bunch of crap.

Processors work much better in pairs, not trios. The current G5 processors are hardware limited to a dual-processor internal bus, so the 3rd processor would have to be out on its own and just "in communication" with the other two like it was in a computer cluster...

I've been coming to this site for a couple of months, and so far, the only thing that has been "rumored" and actually come out to be correct was the one thing i was hoping wasn't correct—the mini iPod.

Apple may be working on a lot of things, but let's just say that i haven't been impressed by the direction they've taken in the almost 9 months since the (still fastest available dual 2.0) G5 was released. If they really want to play hard ball with intel and AMD, then it's going to need 3-6 month increases in speed, and i don't mean motorola 1% increases...

Anyway, i just think its sad that you guys are believing anything about this article. The most likely part of it is the blu-ray DVD drive, which is the part they cite as "questionable."

And just to let you know, nintendo is most certainly NOT making money with the gamecube. It's a cool machine, but its not a moneymaker!
 
Originally posted by benpatient
dude, the GameCube PPC chip isn't 64 bit.

Look, i'm all for rumors, but when a "news" site like mercury posts this information as being "leaked" from MS, that's a bunch of crap.

Processors work much better in pairs, not trios. The current G5 processors are hardware limited to a dual-processor internal bus, so the 3rd processor would have to be out on its own and just "in communication" with the other two like it was in a computer cluster...
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If they are dual core, this may not be a limitation. Having said that, 3 CPUs are extreme and doubtful. Even if it is a derivitive CPU, IBM would destroy their CPU pricing. Of course, if MS drops the hard disk, they could add a CPU without increasing the cost. perhaps IBMs 65nm can go fanless? Who knows.

I do believe these are leaked rumors from MS, in an thinly veiled attempt to get Sony to tip their hand. Sony responded only by saying, were' going to spend over a billion on infrastructure to develop the next gen device(s).
 
Originally posted by benpatient
dude, the GameCube PPC chip isn't 64 bit.

And just to let you know, nintendo is most certainly NOT making money with the gamecube. It's a cool machine, but its not a moneymaker!
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1. i said gamecube uses a _modified_ powerpc chip ...never mentioned 64bit

2. they _were_breaking even/very small win per sold machine in the beginning when they sold them for 200/250$
_now_ they have losses per sold unit but they don't have to sell the same amount of games like others

microsoft had losses with their console here when they were selling them for 479 $ !!

nintendo always undercut competitors before in price ..because they could it without drastic losses...until the playstation 1 where they couldn't because they used the old cartridges instead of cds like sony

nintendo never had the best hardware ...they use rather ceap hardware... look at old gameboy vs. gamegear
NES vs. others back in the 80ties in the long run they won with their 'inferior' hardware
 
haha inferior hardware...if i recall, the sega genesis had to be shut down every 2 or 3 hours because it would over heat easily...

I remember one time that i left the SNES in the basement on for a few days. I came back down fer some classic Mario Kart...lo and behold it's already at the Character Select Screen (I'm like...oops).

The SNES wasn't even hot to the touch :)
'course those are the golden days when everyone developed for SNES, and then the turn down of the CD-based system...and the rest is history (ugh).
 
Originally posted by SpY2K
...and those FPS wintel gamers still think the Mac G5 isn't up to caliber with the wintel gaming machines... oh the irony. Soon, the processors at the core of the new gaming systems will be in the same family as the processors in our dektop machines... I like that :cool:
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Nah the irony is that most people (well the smart ones anyway :) ) already understand that the G5 is the Opteron/FX-51 equivalent on the Apple side. Yeah it's better in some things, the Opteron in others. The difference is games/ports. Until Apple gets simultaneous game launches for its platform, it will not be the FPS platform that the PC is. All they are missing now are the games. The hardware is certainly there...

When they can get Half Life 2 or Doom 3 type of big releases w/o constantly resorting to a petition, then Apple is there
 
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