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DC could take on PS2 graphically.

imac_japan said:
The PS2 is what 2 -3 years older than the X-box...Its like comparing The dreamcast to a PS2 - (only two years apart).

Man, you just insulted the DreamCast. There were areas in the features where the DreamCast was superior to the PS2, like amount of video memory for example. Graphics on the PS2 did not look better than what the DC could do, just different. If developers were still working on DreamCast games I am certain that they would look just as impressive as the current generation of PS2 games.
 
1macker1 said:
I'd never buy a GameCube because it's a console for the kiddies.
No offense, but I do not care about your short-sighted criticism here. Metal Gear Twin Snakes and Resident Evil are kiddie-games, for sure... :rolleyes:
 
Not to get too far off topic but :

>> M$ abuses their customers directly as well as indirectly(by destroying their competition).<<

There's more competition on the PC platform than any other. Hmm..

>>They abuse their customers directly by providing software that is inferior, overpriced,<<

I find XP to be the superior consumer desktop OS. No Office suite is comparible to Office, I find the price inline with comparable products, though I would like Office to be cheaper, there is Works for those who really don't need Office.

I find most competitors inferior (Netscape, Real, Linux)


>>and limiting in the ability to use other software programs instead of M$ products.<<

I think you can run more third part software and hardware on Wintel than any other platform.
 
flyfish29 said:
Sony prettymuch owns the market, but they don't try to buy all the game companies like MS. they own 989 but their games suck. Sony has much different practices when it comes to business ethics. Sony innovates and always has no matter what market share they have. M$ is known to do the opposite. Competition is good, but if M$ gets a hold of a market they end up destroying innovation.


Sony has *never* dominated any consumer market the way MS dominates the consumer OS market. Windows is the only viable desktop OS choice you have for a PC. Sony is not the only choice you have if you want a video game console. Sony innovates the way they do because they have to. If they don't they would lose out to Nintendo and MS. Am I saying that Sony would be as bad as MS? No. What I am saying is that lack of competition leads to consumers paying more for less. Whether it's MS in the desktop OS world, Avid in the editing world, or Sony in aspects of the pro video world any time you have a company that is basically the only game in town you will pay higher prices for lesser products.

2-3 years ago before HD really started becoming a viable option Sony's DigiBeta format was the highest quality video format (and it still is the highest quality standard def video format). And since Sony invented the BetaSP, format which is the defact broadcast standard used, it was easy for them to leverage their DigiBeta format into the industry. Of course you can only buy DigiBeta cameras and decks (VCR's) from one company, Sony. Which meant you had to pay through the nose. Now that HD has become a viable option the DigiBeta equipment has droped nearly 1/3 in price. Gee. I wonder why.


Lethal
 
I think the key question is backwards compatibility. If PS3 does not play PS2 games, and XBox2 comes out at the same time or about the same time as PS3, there's no reason XBox2 can't take a large chunk of Sony's market.

If, however, there is backward compatibility, XBox will never catch up to Sony and MSFT will find itself in an Apple-esque catch 22 situation (don't have the market share so can't get software so won't get more market share) which it can only combat by buying off developers or making a clearly superior product.

It's nice to have a company with such vast resources so willing to commit them to entertaining me for a pricetag lower than their cost.
 
Look at the game selection, it's a console for kiddies.
Stike said:
No offense, but I do not care about your short-sighted criticism here. Metal Gear Twin Snakes and Resident Evil are kiddie-games, for sure... :rolleyes:
How u playing Metal Gear Twin Snakes, did you mommy buy it for u?

No offense of course.
 
If, however, there is backward compatibility, XBox will never catch up to Sony and MSFT will find itself in an Apple-esque catch 22 situation (don't have the market share so can't get software so won't get more market share) which it can only combat by buying off developers or making a clearly superior product.

Xbox game sales have been consistently taking 40-50% of the top 10 monthly sales and 30-40% of top 10 rentals. Right now MS just needs to get the cost of the Xbox down, way down. I'm sure they're pretty PO's that they have the highest game attachment rate than any other console and can't realize any profit because of the hardware loss. They're also not happy that there are big titles (Fable, Halo 2, Galleon, Doom 3) with no real competition from Sony or Nintendo coming out and the cost of Xbox 1 will eat those sales too. Starcraft:Ghost is being developed for Xbox and ported to the others. Rebel X (still a Rumor) is supposed to release with the Trilogy DVD and will be huge. All that and it will get eaten by hardwrae cost. Def Jam Vendetta II finally coming to Xbox. A shame. Add to that the rumor is by Christmas Xbox 1 will be $99. That will guarantee Xbox 2 in 2005 and humongous software sales and marketshare increase.

Half-Life 2 won't be out this year, that tells me that's going to be the flagship title for Xbox 2.

edit: regarding backwards compatibility, more important for Xbox IMO. Currently Xbox titles are cutting edge, people will be very PO'd to give those up. I think Sony would have an easier, though still tough sell, time dropping compatibility, especially PS1.
 
This is the problem with monopolies. The discussions about whether it's a decent console are almost irrelevant, because it's not playing on the same field.

MS has, for the past decade, pulled in obscene profits from its OS and Office divisions, thanks to its monopoly status. Just look at the profit margins in their annual reports--they're on the order of 50%, meaning MS charges you twice as much for their product as it costs them to make. You can't do that if there's any competition. Contrast that to just about any company, who, even when successful generally only turn a profit of a few percent.

Now, there's only one tiny problem with this business model: everybody already owns Office and Windows, so sales are flat or even declining. MS tried to go with the pay-per-year licencing model, but that got people really riled, so they've backed off a bit. Where to find more revenue? Gaming, for one.

So, they head to the gaming market with their vast ill-gotten gains from selling overpriced Office and OS software (this isn't really even arguable; it is the definition of overpriced, and several government antitrust cases have very conclusively shown that it is). They throw this at making a console, and more importantly advertising the living crap out of it and buying every game company they can find just so they'll have exclusives.

They're not on a level playing field, because unlike Sony and Nintendo, they're giving you hardware that costs twice as much to build for the same price. They can also advertise with literally hundreds of millions of dollars, even if the return on that advertising is a tiny fraction of the investment. They can afford to buy game companies, even if the investment takes years to pay off or never does. More importantly, they can only afford to do these things because every person and business who owns a copy of Windows or Office paid too much for it--they're basically subsidising Xbox owners.

Yes, every business operates at a loss at first, but that's not usually a loss of a factor of two or more, and it's not usually on the order of a billion dollars a year--normal companies just can't afford that.

Sony, Nintendo, Sega, or Atari never reached this position, because none of those companies had billions to throw away in an attempt to obtain/maintain a monopoly. Even with the power of Sony (and its advanced technology at the time), they only barely managed to squeeze Sega out of the hardware market, and it took years--they sure didn't take losses like that on the PS1.

The question, then, as others here have raised, is what MS will do when they eventually drive Nintendo and probably even Sony out of the market (assuming they keep at it long enough): Will there be any other competition? How can you afford to break into the console arena if Microsoft already has shown that they're willing to spend billions to force competitors out of the market, and they already own half the decent game companies anyway? Where is the company that's going to be able to afford to compete with this?

And once MS owns the console market, do you honestly think they'll be selling you that $500 Xbox for $150? I don't think so. They'll do exactly what they've done in every other market they dominate--charge way to much, and give you less.

This is a textbook example of why monopolies are a bad thing.


Incidentally, the one saving grace for the world is that the Xbox has sold so miserably in Japan (where a whole lot of games get made, and two out of the three current consoles are developed) that MS has essentially given up on it there--they're just pandering to sex-starved geeks with more DOA games, as a recent article posted here mentioned. They sure tried, though--about two years ago, you couldn't turn on the TV there without seeing a shiny Xbox ad, but even with all the money they dumped into it, they still couldn't make any inroads. Now, absolutely nothing.
 
MorganX said:
Xbox game sales have been consistently taking 40-50% of the top 10 monthly sales and 30-40% of top 10 rentals. Right now MS just needs to get the cost of the Xbox down, way down. I'm sure they're pretty PO's that they have the highest game attachment rate than any other console and can't realize any profit because of the hardware loss. They're also not happy that there are big titles (Fable, Halo 2, Galleon, Doom 3) with no real competition from Sony or Nintendo coming out and the cost of Xbox 1 will eat those sales too. Starcraft:Ghost is being developed for Xbox and ported to the others. Rebel X (still a Rumor) is supposed to release with the Trilogy DVD and will be huge. All that and it will get eaten by hardwrae cost. Def Jam Vendetta II finally coming to Xbox. A shame. Add to that the rumor is by Christmas Xbox 1 will be $99. That will guarantee Xbox 2 in 2005 and humongous software sales and marketshare increase.

Half-Life 2 won't be out this year, that tells me that's going to be the flagship title for Xbox 2.

edit: regarding backwards compatibility, more important for Xbox IMO. Currently Xbox titles are cutting edge, people will be very PO'd to give those up. I think Sony would have an easier, though still tough sell, time dropping compatibility, especially PS1.


Your talking about two sides of the same coin. The XBox is probably the "best" system due to the expensive components (hard drive, built in ethernet, etc). Microsoft is not going to be able to have a "superior" system, still sell it at the prices of other systems, and expect to make a profit from the systems.

Makosuke's post does a good job of explaining this.
 
LethalWolfe said:
If Sony or Nintendo became the sole provider of console hardware would they be as "bad" as MS? I don't know. But I do know that w/o competition we'd pay more for less no matter what company (Sony, MS, or Nintendo) was selling it.

Absolutely correct -- every company has the potential to abuse a position of market power. Power corrupts, as they say.

But Microsoft already has two monopolies -- office suite and desktop OS (maybe more, like web browser, etc.) So if they could add another to that collection, it would be far worse overall than if Sony or Nintendo ended up with one monopoly.

Further, MS is using its outrageous income from existing monopolies to undercut Sony and Nintendo. It can potentially destroy both of them in the console business. Microsoft does not compete in its markets, it straps down its rivals and catheterizes their jugulars!

Neither Sony nor Nintendo could mount that sort of attack against the other, because they lack the monopoly income in other markets. They have to compete based on the income they each earn in the console market. That is how it is intended to work!

Microsoft, however, chooses to distort the system whenever they can! It must stop somewhere. I say draw the line here!
 
>>Just look at the profit margins in their annual reports--they're on the order of 50%, meaning MS charges you twice as much for their product as it costs them to make. You can't do that if there's any competition. <<

What's Apple's profit margin on iPod? What's it been over the past decade on it entire line? What is it on OS X?

You can't have high profit margins if there's no demand. Regardless of competition. Intel has competition, but they're profit margins are still astronomical. There's free competition for Windows and Office, but the alternatives suck. So the demand for them remains. Sure the cost of software is high, but when you factor in piracy.... 90% of people I know who build their own PCs don't pay for Windows or Office. And I know a lot. Windows can usually be purchased somewhere for less than OS X.


>>Where to find more revenue?<<

That's what business do. Why is Apple in the MP3 business? Why did Sony get into the game business and basically lose the portable music market they created.

>>So, they head to the gaming market with their vast ill-gotten gains from selling overpriced Office and OS software (this isn't really even arguable; it is the definition of overpriced, and several government antitrust cases have very conclusively shown that it is).<<

Antitrust cases have shown that they have become a monopoly. When you become a monopoly your business practices are severely regulated. When you reach monopoly status you must, play fair. No one else has to but you do. That's the cost of being the top dog.

>>They throw this at making a console, and more importantly advertising the living crap out of it and buying every game company they can find just so they'll have exclusives.<<

This is a gross overstatement. And buying game developers and exclusivity is modus operandi in the game industry. Or did MS create that also?

>>They're not on a level playing field, because unlike Sony and Nintendo, they're giving you hardware that costs twice as much to build for the same price.<<

Actually both Sony and Nintendo subsidized their hardware until they established marketshare and were able to reach profitability on game sales and eventually hardware. This is standard for the game industry.

>>They can also advertise with literally hundreds of millions of dollars, even if the return on that advertising is a tiny fraction of the investment.<<

Sony has announced they will be spending over a billion dollars developing and promoting the PS 3.

>>They can afford to buy game companies, even if the investment takes years to pay off or never does.<<

Just like Sony and Nintendo.

>>More importantly, they can only afford to do these things because every person and business who owns a copy of Windows or Office paid too much for it<<

Unfortunately you don't get to decide what's too much. As long as there is demand at the current price. $129 for modest OS X upgrades is too much, but apparently there's demand.

I'm sure Sonys profits from consumer electronics and media helped them absorb the cost of subsidizing the playstation. Don't know much about Nintendo ill-gotten gains.

>>Yes, every business operates at a loss at first, but that's not usually a loss of a factor of two or more, and it's not usually on the order of a billion dollars a year--normal companies just can't afford that.<<

What's normal about Sony and Nintendo? No if you had said Sega just couldn't afford it, you might have an point.

>>Sony, Nintendo, Sega, or Atari never reached this position, because none of those companies had billions to throw away in an attempt to obtain/maintain a monopoly. Even with the power of Sony (and its advanced technology at the time), they only barely managed to squeeze Sega out of the hardware market, and it took years--they sure didn't take losses like that on the PS1.<<

I think you're just wrong here. Sony and Nintendo do have billions to throw away to obtain/maintain a monopoly. But guess what, when the demand for xbox games continues to outgrow the demand for PS2 games, developers will choose to develop for MS first and due to lack of demand, Sony will have to lower prices and buy more exclusives, etc. That's the business. Do you know what XNA is and what that means to developers? Probably not since this is one area that Microsoft excels at and everyone else (Sony, Apple) is miserable at. Developer relations and reducing developer costs.

>>How can you afford to break into the console arena if Microsoft already has shown that they're willing to spend billions to force competitors out of the market, and they already own half the decent game companies anyway?<<

How are they forcing competitors out of the business? By developing a better product? Well, welcome to America.

Half the best developers, please, Bungie has one excellent game. What's the last great game to come from Rare. In fact, I don't know that Bungie wasn't going broke, and Rare definitely got saved by being purchased. Furthermore, the development platform Microsoft is providing is making it easier for these creative companies to produce great games.

The best game developers:

id
Valve
Blizzard
LucasArts
TeamNinja

Microsoft owns none of them, but I wish they did. That would insure these companies could produce great games for a long time.

>>And once MS owns the console market, do you honestly think they'll be selling you that $500 Xbox for $150? <<

They won't, and they can't afford to do it now. They've made several changes to reduce the cost. I doubled my investment by buying Focus Ehancements because I knew Microsoft was going with them for a lower cost video scaler. Why do you think Microsoft is dropping the Hard drive or making it optional? Designing the chips themselves and having to deal with emulating NVidia? Because it cost too much. They're not selling them at $149 because they want to, they're doing it because they have to. And software developers want it even cheaper.

>>Incidentally, the one saving grace for the world is that the Xbox has sold so miserably in Japan (where a whole lot of games get made, and two out of the three current consoles are developed) that MS has essentially given up on it there--they're just pandering to sex-starved geeks with more DOA games, as a recent article posted here mentioned. They sure tried, though--about two years ago, you couldn't turn on the TV there without seeing a shiny Xbox ad, but even with all the money they dumped into it, they still couldn't make any inroads. Now, absolutely nothing.<<

Nationalism at its best.

There's always going to be monopoly. Some is always going to be better, or richer than everyone else. And once an entity becomes a monopoly our great government will try to level the playing field. But it won't make much difference. Because most competitors who rely on regulation simply don't make a better product that is in demand.

Rio dominated MP3 players. Apple had 0 market. But now they're #1 because they made a better product.

Do you realize all the crybabies pushing the antitrust are all billionaires? Don't believe the hype.
 
Neither Sony nor Nintendo could mount that sort of attack against the other, because they lack the monopoly income in other markets. They have to compete based on the income they each earn in the console market. That is how it is intended to work!

This is some sort of a joke right? Sony has to compete based o the income they each earn in the console market? ha, haha. How do you think Sony subsidizes minidisc? They're still pushing Atrac.

Nintendo owns 30% of Pokemon. Just how high do you think the profit margins on overpriced Pokemon trading cards are? In '99 Pokemon was 30% of Nintendo's revenues. Last year, 70% gameboy. If Nintendo had to live off Gamecube revenues it would be dead already.

These are all mega corporations. Nintendo better diversify or it will be in trouble. Sony, Sony just needs better games and a better console. If they don't do it, oh well.
 
zamyatin said:
Neither Sony nor Nintendo could mount that sort of attack against the other, because they lack the monopoly income in other markets. They have to compete based on the income they each earn in the console market. That is how it is intended to work!

Sony has plenty of other markets besides video games. Computers, digital still cameras, digital video cameras, home entertainment, prosumer video software (they recently purchased Sonic Foundry), as well as being a market leader in the pro video field (everything from broadcat to HD film making).


Lethal
 
actually i can't understand whats this fuss about the xbox is all about...

1.controller
2.size & price
3.games

in all points the xbox offers nothing for me ..

i buyed myself the gamecube ... and it's good enough for me
 
takao said:
actually i can't understand whats this fuss about the xbox is all about...

1.controller
2.size & price
3.games

in all points the xbox offers nothing for me ..

i buyed myself the gamecube ... and it's good enough for me

In most Countries the Xbox is cheaper than the PS2, and often the GameCube. It really is down to games though, as each console has a different look and feel and type of game. I own all 3, and have very different types of game for each console. I don't think anyone can rubbish any of the consoles, they are all very good at what they do. Sure, don't like one of them and don't buy it, but as Takao said, it is a personal thing and the Xbox offers him nothing. Personally I play the PS2 least even though I have more games for it, but that would be because of the games, rather than the console. For fun, when I have mates round, the GameCube with 4 controllers and MarioKart is great!
 
MorganX said:
You can't have high profit margins if there's no demand. Regardless of competition. Intel has competition, but they're profit margins are still astronomical. There's free competition for Windows and Office, but the alternatives suck. So the demand for them remains. Sure the cost of software is high, but when you factor in piracy.... 90% of people I know who build their own PCs don't pay for Windows or Office. And I know a lot. Windows can usually be purchased somewhere for less than OS X.

Intel has over 80% of the x86 market share. Intel is still a monopoly so they can charge whatever they want for their chips.
http://news.com.com/2100-7341_3-5101546.html

MorganX said:
The best game developers:

id
Valve
Blizzard
LucasArts
TeamNinja

Microsoft owns none of them, but I wish they did. That would insure these companies could produce great games for a long time.

Are you kidding me??? Do you not remember what MS did to Halo. They took what could have been the best game ever and ruined it. MS only cares about the $$$ and they would sacrifice game quality to get it.

If MS bought those gaming companies, they would still produce games but they wouldn't be great games.
 
How did they ruin halo? It's one of the best games of all time. They do care about the games, that's they only way they gonna make money. I mean, if they put out crappy games, people will stop buying them, thus they will stop making money.
Dippo said:
Are you kidding me??? Do you not remember what MS did to Halo. They took what could have been the best game ever and ruined it.
 
Keep your facts straight

MorganX said:
Now put Steve's Learjet in perspective...

Apple's years of bloated profit margins because they won't allow clones...

This is a silly notion.


First of all, Apple bought Steve a Gulfstream, not a Lear.

Secondly, had Apple allowed the clone market to continue, you'd be using XP now, and we never would have had the chance to have this fascinating discusssion.
 
1macker1 said:
No offense, but I dont care about the Japan market

Why ?? if it wasn't for Japan, you wouldn't have all the good games today !!! Japanese gaming companies developed most of the ideas that we see today. By the way its "the Japanese market"...

American companies are at last starting to make good games....
 
Sol said:
Man, you just insulted the DreamCast. There were areas in the features where the DreamCast was superior to the PS2, like amount of video memory for example. Graphics on the PS2 did not look better than what the DC could do, just different. If developers were still working on DreamCast games I am certain that they would look just as impressive as the current generation of PS2 games.

I was just using it as an example ! I love my dreamcast but to compare an older machine to a newer one is just pointless. The games are the most important thing - look at the gameboy, the games are fun for the kids but the graphics are terrible compared to a modern system and the gameboy sells well.
 
1macker1 said:
How did they ruin halo? It's one of the best games of all time. They do care about the games, that's they only way they gonna make money.

Sure Halo was still good, but it wasn't the great game that it was supposed to be, and the single player was very rushed and highly repetitive.

It is a fact that MS rushed Halo, and thus it wasn't as good as it could have been.

1macker1 said:
I mean, if they put out crappy games, people will stop buying them, thus they will stop making money.

Yea, and their crappy OSes don't make any money and no one uses them :rolleyes:
 
MorganX said:
>>How can you afford to break into the console arena if Microsoft already has shown that they're willing to spend billions to force competitors out of the market, and they already own half the decent game companies anyway?<<

How are they forcing competitors out of the business? By developing a better product? Well, welcome to America.

Half the best developers, please, Bungie has one excellent game....
That particular statement wasn't about now, it was about what the situation could theoretically be in a decade. One look at the PC industry, and you'll see something like the same picture. And my point stands; developing and promoting a competitive console is a very expensive proposition, costing literally billions of dollars. It takes a monumental company (Sony, MS) to cough up that kind of cash with the hopes of a payoff down the road. But the important difference is, if MS manages to kill off both Nintendo and Sony's consoles, the'll be no competition at all, and few if any companies in the world with both the financial wherewithall to attempt an inroad into a monopolized market (keep in mind that it's costing MS billions to break into a comeptitive market; the barrier is higher with a monopoly), and the confidence that they can effectively compete against a very rich monopolist that has in the past been willing to do whatever it takes (again, in this case could be buy up any game company in sight) to maintain its position.


As for the rest of your comments, you present a textbook case of the free-market capitalist's vision of commerece. Just about any economist will tell you that a monopoly is bad for a market, and MS is not only a bigtime monopoly trying to move into a new market, but one that has so far been largely unregulated and unrestricted (compared to, say, the breakup of the Bells or regulation of the electric industry).

And no, though Sony and Nintendo are huge companies, and any diversified company spreads its money around to try and leverage new businesses, none of those can do the sort of things MS can. Apple, even with iPod earnings, etc, isn't doing much more than breaking even, as is the case with most large corporations in competitive markets:

Apple posted profits of $60M or so on sales of $6.2 billion (less than 1% profit based on sales). Sony last year had about $63 billion gross income, with about $980M profit (1.6% profit). Nintendo did considerably better; $500M on gross of $4.2 billion (15%; clearly they're raking it in somewhere). Microsoft, in contrast, grossed $32 billion, and netted just shy of $10 billion after taxes (that would be profits of 31% on sales). If they were in a functioning competitive market that benefitted anybody but the people who own their stock, those numbers would be much, much, lower, in line with the profit margins of just about any other normal corporation, because some competitor would be able to offer a comperable or superior product at a much lower price--something that doesn't happen with a monopoly.

If you honestly think that Microsoft got where it is by doing nothing more than making a better product than every other company on the market, and furthermore continues to do so today, there's really no point in arguing, and I have no idea what you're doning posting in a Macintosh-centric forum. Being an MS-hater isn't a prerequisite to being a Mac fan or posting here, but I find it honestly surprising that anyone could believe that Windows couldn't be either a significantly better or cheaper product if they were in a functioning competitive market or regulated like a monopoly should be.

Even with their profits from other divisions, Neither Sony nor Nintendo has anywhere near the cash to throw around that MS does; the losses that MS incurred on the Xbox last year alone were almost $1 billion; that would've driven Sony or Nintendo into the red (with no current hopes of profit at all--losses are accelerating), and it's unlikely either company could handle that sort of investment on a single product launch in a single area--certainly not for any extended period of time.
 
Which gaming companies are u talking about. Back in the day i'm sure the japanese developers had the hold on the good games, but not anymore. The point I getting at, is that the main games people like seems to be different from country to country. That's why i'm not interested in the Japanese market, it was not to say the Japanese market isnt important.
imac_japan said:
Why ?? if it wasn't for Japan, you wouldn't have all the good games today !!! Japanese gaming companies developed most of the ideas that we see today. By the way its "the Japanese market"...

American companies are at last starting to make good games....
 
1macker1 said:
Which gaming companies are u talking about. Back in the day i'm sure the japanese developers had the hold on the good games, but not anymore. The point I getting at, is that the main games people like seems to be different from country to country. That's why i'm not interested in the Japanese market, it was not to say the Japanese market isnt important.


Yea, here is an article talking about just that.

Why most U.S. titles don?t fare well in Japan (and vice versa)

Despite the success of American music and movies in Japan, Western-made video games have never done well in the Japanese market. American-made consoles such as 3DO (released in Japan in 1994) and most recently the Microsoft Xbox (released in two years ago) never seem to attract consumers in large numbers. Games such as "Enter the Matrix" from Atari, and "The Lord of the Rings" by Electronic Arts, both released last year, often vanish from the Japanese market without leaving a trace.

The type of game makes a difference as well. "Doom 3," "Half-Life 2," and "Halo 2" are three of the most anticipated upcoming games among Western audiences. Don't expect them to do well in Japan, however. In fact, they will have two strikes against them even before they land on the docks. All three games are, in addition to being violent, played from the first-person perspective. Such first-person perspective shooters (FPS) are big in the West, but have never really caught on in Japan. And few violent games sell well there, either.
 
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