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Wendy_Rebecca said:
STARTING? STARTING to get annoying? Please. Heads should roll at Apple, and that starts at the top. Name one product Apple has announced in the past three years that has shipped on time, hasn't experienced shortages, and worked properly right out of the box.

No, you can't pick one. It has to meet all three criteria.

Yeah. That's what I thought.

This is ridiculous. WTF is going on in Cupertino?

----edit----
What kind of idiot rates this as "positive"?
All products of this complexity (i.e. computers) have small problems, teething troubles. Some just turn out to be dud. It is not normally a design flaw though. You will always hear more complaints than thanks.

Sure, Apple needs to pick up the pace but surely it's a good thing that they can't keep up with demand? Better than there being no demand at all.
 
jcdenton said:
If IBM turns into another Motorola this could be the end of the Macintosh.

I don't think it's IBM's fault. The rumored cooling problems might have to do with more than just the processor. It might just be the rest of the chipset that's producing the extra heat. This would be a problem Apple has to solve.
 
I'm happy.

I prefer by far the idea that Apple holds off. This is a server product, and Apple's reputation is riding on it. When you have a processor and chipset revision, it seems prudent to QA it very thoroughly, and not release until you're SURE any possible problems or weaknesses are ironed out.

Being a server product, Apple knows it has a longer lifecycle and it is therefore more important to take care of this stuff before release and not have to deal with any uncertainties...

Uncertainties are devastating in this market segment. It's cheaper to hold off...
 
Saving money

Trimix said:
why is everbody bitching and moaning about delays ? i am taking a lot of pleasure from the fact that apple have entered a new area and cannot keep up with the interest they create. go apple go 😛

I'll give you a good reason to bitch. I would get a 10pct discount from a certain store for any purchase I make on my birthday, around mid-March. Looks like I will be paying 10pct more whenever these Power Macs do come. 😡
 
I think this argues for elimination of Macworlds or at least a policy from Apple that they won't announce new products at them. I believe it forces them to rush things and they are constantly announcing products months ahead of time, which of course makes current model a worse deal, and shuts down sales. Who in their right mind would have bought an XServe G4 since this announcement? When businesses need servers, they can't just wait 2-4 months like Apple makes them do. This is why they will never increase market share in the corporate sector. I can think of 2 people I know who wanted an iPod Mini when it was announced, went to a store thinking it was available a month after the announcement and tons of ads, and found that they weren't available. Now the thrill has passed for them and they aren't planning to get an iPod at all. Brilliant. It almost seems like Apple is getting worse and worse at delivering on time. I swear, things were almost better a few years ago with all Motorola chips.
 
i think it is the increasing demand for the xserve and that products like this.. -> http://www.apple.com/xserve/cluster/wgcluster.html are being made for research and development, who knows what kinds of orders are on the list for xserves and it is clear from reading that, first hand that dates aren't moving at all for shipping the units, just the press release that says that they are shipping from apple.
 
If they have been selling the old Virginia Tech G5s, doesn't that mean they have started to get replacements? I haven't heard if anybody actually bought one of the used G5's.. maybe they have a similar March shipping date.
 
Stella said:
No wonder Apple have only 2% market share.. they are unable to deliver the demand!

DING DING! WE HAVE A WINNER!

I think they are suffering from many things, one of which is these sort of issues. Tech doesn't really deserve an unveiling often, I don't feel, and Apple's completely non-up-front attitude toward announcement, progress, etc. only hurts them, i feel. They are arguably on the cutting edge in every other facet. So what else could it be that is holding them back, as 2-5 percent is quite weak for a name such as they are?

And a better question: What do delays like this signify for impending udpates on possible g5 pbooks. Could they be getting ready for some of those, and could the new books be the reason for the holdup? Or are they still a couple updates away and will they simply be pushed back even further due to this delay?
 
miloblithe said:
The thing I hate about these delays is how anouncements are "Apple is delivering today" even though they are not even planning to _ship_ for months, and then the ship date is delayed. What does delivering mean in this context? Delivering the idea of the product? I realize my language complaint isn't as important as the actual shipment of the machines and real delays, but I still find it annoying.

I agree that it would be nice to see Apple announce some major new product and actually ship it more or less immediately thereafter, but that doesn't seem to be Apple's way. They seem to like buzz to build for a while after an announcement.

then the buzz turns to frustration... i just wish they would make less of a fuss and bring out that new hardware / software on a regular basis and let us (the users) be nicely surprised ...
 
Mac-Xpert said:
I don't think it's IBM's fault. The rumored cooling problems might have to do with more than just the processor. It might just be the rest of the chipset that's producing the extra heat. This would be a problem Apple has to solve.

That makes good sense. Every article I have read on the new G5 processor says that it runs faster and COOLER, how could there be cooling issues with the processor?
 
regarding all of the comments on Apple's small percentage market share:

Apple has a higher percentage market share in the computer industry that BMW or Mercedes do in the automotive industry.

I am happy to know that I own both a BMW and Mercedes computer!
 
gerlitzappel said:
regarding all of the comments on Apple's small percentage market share:

Apple has a higher percentage market share in the computer industry that BMW or Mercedes do in the automotive industry.

I am happy to know that I own both a BMW and Mercedes computer!

here we go again..
get on topic..
 
gerlitzappel said:
That makes good sense. Every article I have read on the new G5 processor says that it runs faster and COOLER, how could there be cooling issues with the processor?
The point being made by the original poster (Mac-Xpert) was that the heat problems may be due to chips *other than the processor*, e.g. the system controller and/or i/o controller chipsets.
 
daveL said:
The point being made by the original poster (Mac-Xpert) was that the heat problems may be due to chips *other than the processor*, e.g. the system controller and/or i/o controller chipsets.

I agree with that point, that's why I wrote "That makes good sense".
 
Wendy_Rebecca said:
STARTING? STARTING to get annoying? Please. Heads should roll at Apple, and that starts at the top. Name one product Apple has announced in the past three years that has shipped on time, hasn't experienced shortages, and worked properly right out of the box.

No, you can't pick one. It has to meet all three criteria.

Yeah. That's what I thought.

This is ridiculous. WTF is going on in Cupertino?

----edit----
What kind of idiot rates this as "positive"?
You are right, I wonder what they are doing with all those millions because it doesnt look like they spend a nickel on getting it right. Every Revision A product seems to have lots of problems and everyone buying them become Beta testers for Apple. I still think they have a bunch of clowns running the hardware division. They dont have a clue why the sales suck compared to any Pc company. Heck the likes of Acer are selling more. Now we get to hear more Bmw,Mercedes crap etc. I wonder why those Fords or rather Wintels are still matching dual G5 performance. I think i just figured it out those dollars are lining Jobs & Ives pockets while the come up with more spin trying to make hardware that matches last years stuff from Intel. Keep the crap up Apple and you will make a switcher out of me. Dell and Alienware are looking like a better idea every day.
 
dex22 said:
I prefer by far the idea that Apple holds off. This is a server product, and Apple's reputation is riding on it. When you have a processor and chipset revision, it seems prudent to QA it very thoroughly, and not release until you're SURE any possible problems or weaknesses are ironed out.

Being a server product, Apple knows it has a longer lifecycle and it is therefore more important to take care of this stuff before release and not have to deal with any uncertainties...

Uncertainties are devastating in this market segment. It's cheaper to hold off...

That's a nice idea... but the business market segment is also keen on delivery. The "idea that Apple holds off" should have started with even the announcement of the G5 servers. They should not announce them until the servers are good to go. When you work with corporate budgets, your accounting dept and CFO finds IT expenses critical to fall into deadlines... if a server isn't delivered as promised (say a month later), that could have been money better spent. Do it too many times (say twice) and usually the company will loose the contract.

Let's take the big guns in the server market for example: IBM, Sun, HP/Compaq, and now Dell. When a new server is designed, it isn't announced to the corporate market until they have set shipping dates (big iron and mid-range) and sometimes it isn't even announced until they have them available for next day shipping (smaller servers) For instance, when IBM announced the AS/400, I was able to have one in a week from the announcement date. It was a simple process of calling up the IBM rep, having them fax a pricing sheet, writing up a PO, submitting it to our CFO, signed and accounting faxed it over to IBM, and IBM set a delivery date. That's how business likes it. If you don't have your product together, keep your mouth shut and fix it and when it's ready announce it and also don't give out vague delivery dates of 6 to 8 weeks or by "this date" or sooner. Can you imagine a big iron piece with vague delivery dates??? You have to plan for people to receive these machines and for node hookups... all of which costs money and takes planning.

Even with small businesses, say video editing with a few employees, what if you planned to take on a new larger scale project once your new G5Xserve showed up at the end of Feb. What do you do now with no machine to work on? You face the potential of a lengthened project timeline and possibly violating the terms of the contract with your client. I know what's happened in the past when Apple has screwed up delivery times... you end up subcontracting the work and paying the difference between your billing and your subcontractors if only to guarantee a future working relationship with your client. In the end, though, you just end up p.o. at Apple for not delivering.

If Apple is serious about the business market, it'll need to take some notes from real server providers.
 
legion said:
The "idea that Apple holds off" should have started with even the announcement of the G5 servers. They should not announce them until the servers are good to go.

Doesn't that about sum it up? Everyone's assuming there are hardware problems. Delay does not equal problem. It's nice to see you look wider than the crowd 🙂

Apple's PR created this dilemma. I'm sure the hardware developers are quite unhappy about the situation and the degree of pre-announcement. It's all very Osbourne.

For those questioning the competency of Apple's hardware teams, go design and test something simple yourself, like an IDE interface or and ARM-based SBC. Once you have designed, tested and qualified it, you'll better understand the basic process, the types of faults that can occur, etc. Apple has a design process in place that works very well. Remember, it's far more complex than any PC desktop manufacturer because PC manufacturers have chipsets/core logic designed by experts. Apple has to design their own boards, their own supporting chipsets, their own case designs, etc.

Got a problem with your supporting chipset? Maybe if register X is set to such and such, and there is data traveling to X device while data is coming from Y device during a cache miss on the processor then there is a 1 in 100,000,000 chance that something unintended will occur. With a 2GHz processor that could happen every few seconds! Go round with a chip mod, get samples (6 weeks), build new samples, requalify, repeat.

These add a lot to cost and to time-to-market, but they also add that 'value' that makes people want an Apple in the first place.
 
dex22 said:
Doesn't that about sum it up? Everyone's assuming there are hardware problems. Delay does not equal problem. It's nice to see you look wider than the crowd 🙂

Agree with your post. Apple does seem to hold the trump card on tardiness though. And it's almost a uniquely Apple phenomenon that we all get caught up in. Is there any of this type of breath-holding for a Dell, IBM or H-P product? Rhetorical question. The point is that Apple needs the hype and we just add to it. Probably better that Apple announces new product much closer to its real debut but then that means things like MacWorld and the WWDC are no longer the focus points of new products. The reality is that all the people who get upset over such inconsequential things like Apple's shipping date slippages have a little too much spare time on their hands and not given to much mature reflection. They could, with this spare time and a serious need to foster some adaptive skills, go and see "The Passion" where life's perspectives really come to light!
 
Wendy_Rebecca said:
Name one product Apple has announced in the past three years that has shipped on time, hasn't experienced shortages, and worked properly right out of the box.
  • iMac with USB 2.0 (as far as I know)
  • Apple Wireless Keyboard and Mouse
  • FCP 4/DVD SP 2/Shake 3
  • FCE 2
  • iPod mini (seems like the supply has been pretty good)
  • I think iLife '04 has gone pretty well, although there were some complaints about iDVD
Those are all within the last nine months or so, actually. I'm sure I could come up with more for the last three years.
No, you can't pick one. It has to meet all three criteria.

Yeah. That's what I thought.
That's a dangerous, dangerous game you're playing there...watch them absolutes...

Also, I agree with dex22. Apple has to internalize a lot more costs and risks than many other manufacturers. Perhaps IBM is in a similar or worse position (they even make their own CPUs, except for their lower-level systems, with Xeons and the like). But they charge a hefty premium, even compared to Apple, AFAIK, and they've been doing it a lot longer.

WM
 
Legion--

I agree with you completely that Apple has a lot to do wrt to shipping times etc. And I agree that business likes to be able to transmit a PO and get the box, although this is hardly how it is done in Fortune 100 companies (at least the ones I've worked for). For smaller companies, sure.

I disagree with you that they are the only ones guilty. HP and Dell in particular are terrible at this. When I worked for a telecom company, Cisco and Lucent were infamous for promising hardware and software WAY ahead of when it was actually available with the promised feature set. And Dell agreed to provide a server by a given date and they hadn't even prototyped the thing yet. Needless to say, that server order went elsewhere.

To a degree, this illustrates the tension between those who want Apple to roadmap products and those who want to know nothing until it is actually released. Tough for any company to deal with that!

Best,

Bob
 
I can understand the comments about how hard it is to glue chips together and test them all out and get everything working, but surely Apple must be judged not on the difficulty of the task, but on how it's competitors handle similar tasks. On the face of it, they are ahead of Apple again.

This is seriously starting to resemble the farce of the G4 announcement; super computer performance that failed to update competitively and was then subsequently overtaken by PC manufacturers. Steve promised 3 ghz by this summer, and on my calender the start of summer is only ten weeks away and we are still seeing the debut G5's for sale.

I am putting off a huge design product waiting on a G5 update, if none is announced by the end of june then I must reconsider staying with this platform, much as I hate saying that.
 
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