Yankees say George Steinbrenner dies at 80

[Tilpots]

If you want to win championships, building a championship team is the last thing you do. The first thing you do is get investors on board and start building infrastructure and brand recognition. The whole notion that "anything can happen" on the field of play is a myth in baseball. It's a statistical inevitability that (in an uncapped, lightly regulated league) big cities will win and smaller ones lose. Which is why NYC is bloated with championships while some very old teams have perhaps one or two.

I agree with a lot of what your saying. Money eases the path to championships. It's true. But it doesn't guarantee it. The guys on the field still have to make the plays. The pitchers have to throw strikes and the hitters have to hit in the clutch. The Yankees have won an awful lot of Titles, but they don't win every single one, though they probably should on paper.

IMO, the NFL has done a much better job than any of the other leagues of creating a system that levels the playing field for all franchises. Just look at Green Bay. They not only compete, but routinely make the playoffs and they're probably the smallest city in the country to host a major sporting team.

 

[MacNut]

How level is the NFL when the Lions are horrible and teams like the Patriots win everything.

 

[Tilpots]

How level is the NFL when the Lions are horrible and teams like the Patriots win everything.

There's no accounting in the rules for the likes of an idiot like Matt Millen. Watch out for the Lions this year, too. I don't think they'll be in the playoffs, but Stafford's gonna give those boys a chance.

And with the Patriots, they've just built a great franchise, they didn't buy it. Kraft and Belichick have consistently gone out and brought in the players that worked for the system they play. Castoffs from other teams and smart draft picks have made huge contributions for them, so they didn't have to break the bank to get it done.

 

[MacNut]

There's no accounting in the rules for the likes of an idiot like Matt Millen. Watch out for the Lions this year, too. I don't think they'll be in the playoffs, but Stafford's gonna give those boys a chance.

And with the Patriots, they've just built a great franchise, they didn't buy it. Kraft and Belichick have consistently gone out and brought in the players that worked for the system they play. Castoffs from other teams have made huge contributions for them, so they didn't have to break the bank to get it done.

The Pats still had a dynasty, the only way to rid sports of dynasties is to force players to 1 year deals and allow for rotation. That is the only way to give the smaller teams a chance. Salary caps and floors and 1 year contracts.

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Well that's too bad. He was great on Seinfeld.

 

[MacNut]

Well that's too bad. He was great on Seinfeld.

You know it wasn't really him on Seinfeld.

 

[Tilpots]

The Pats still had a dynasty, the only way to rid sports of dynasties is to force players to 1 year deals and allow for rotation. That is the only way to give the smaller teams a chance. Salary caps and floors and 1 year contracts.

The Patriots have been the anomaly of the NFL. Nobody else has even come close. I don't have a problem with a team earning the dynasty label. And while the Yankees haven't technically "bought" the dynasty moniker, it sure looks that way when you compare payrolls. The Cubs really are the anomaly in baseball, huh?

 

[MacNut]

The Patriots have been the anomaly of the NFL. Nobody else has even come close. I don't have a problem with a team earning the dynasty label. And while the Yankees haven't technically "bought" the dynasty moniker, it sure looks that way when you compare payrolls. The Cubs really are the anomaly in baseball, huh?

There are ways around salary caps. Look at what the Celtics and the Heat are doing now in the NBA, they sign a few big stars to max contracts then get filler players. They are working in the rules but still creating super teams. It really isn't adding parody to the league. I don't really see a way around spending money and still finding a way to get the big name players.

 

[rhett7660]

The Patriots have been the anomaly of the NFL. Nobody else has even come close. I don't have a problem with a team earning the dynasty label. And while the Yankees haven't technically "bought" the dynasty moniker, it sure looks that way when you compare payrolls. The Cubs really are the anomaly in baseball, huh?

In what way????

 

[Tilpots]

There are ways around salary caps. Look at what the Celtics and the Heat are doing now in the NBA, they sign a few big stars to max contracts then get filler players. They are working in the rules but still creating super teams. It really isn't adding parody to the league. I don't really see a way around spending money and still finding a way to get the big name players.

I really don't follow the NBA but I will stick to the idea that what the NFL is doing has created the most parody of all the Major sports in the US. I don't have any facts handy to back it up, right now, but I'll scrounge some up and link 'em later.

In what way????

The Patriots are the anomaly because with all the free agency rules, salary cap restrictions, franchise designations and the like, they are the one team that has managed to overcome them and win three Super Bowls in four years. And what separates them from the Cowboys and 49ers of the past is the era of rule changes designed to prevent it from happening due to a teams wealth.

 

[dmr727]

It's Parity.

 

[Ttownbeast]

Well that's too bad. He was great on Seinfeld.

Wouldn't know--hated Seinfeld (not funny in my opinion) I seen ol George Steinbrenner doing a pizza commercial now and again though...not bad. I hated George but I still liked him better than Trump and Oprah because he was in baseball but since he was the owner of one of the two teams I hated the most--the two being the A's and the Yankees I had to hate him...hey maybe the Mariners have a shot this year! LOL

 

[kuaiyouming]

.

 

[Tilpots]

It's Parity.

Right you are. Unless you were talking about Seinfeld's Steinbrenner, an obvious parody.

 

[BanjoBanker]

As principal owner, George did exactly what he was supposed to do: build a Championship team. Many people called him obnoxious and abrasive, but IMO that was out a sense of envy. He made a bunch of money and had a great time spending it on what he loved, the Yankees. For all the whiners who say he paid for his championships I say look at how many times the Yanks won before Steinbrenner! 26 times since the beginning of the World Series. So many of the greatest names in baseball have played for the Yankees, their being the best is a legacy that Steinbrenner simply maintained. I wish Hank and Hal all the best and my condolences to the Steinbrenner family.

 

[Tilpots]

As principal owner, George did exactly what he was supposed to do: build a Championship team. Many people called him obnoxious and abrasive, but IMO that was out a sense of envy. He made a bunch of money and had a great time spending it on what he loved, the Yankees. For all the whiners who say he paid for his championships I say look at how many times the Yanks won before Steinbrenner! 26 times since the beginning of the World Series. So many of the greatest names in baseball have played for the Yankees, their being the best is a legacy that Steinbrenner simply maintained. I wish Hank and Hal all the best and my condolences to the Steinbrenner family.

They've been the richest organization that whole time, too.

 

[Gasu E.]

I think we're going to fail to ever agree on this, which is fine - but in my opinion Steinbrenner and others like him are playing foul without actually breaking any rules. He knew that the league system is not strictly fair, and that he has the means to collect championships using (admittedly shrewdly-manged) piles of money that other teams don't have access to. Even more critically, he was aware that large markets like NYC can be leveraged to give him an economic advantage over other teams even before his own money is involved.

I think big cities should be held stongly in check so that even the smallest markets have a good chance to win.

I hate dynasties.

Anyway, I'm not here to speak ill of the dead, but to many of us Steinbrenner represents the big-city, big-money hegemony in sports, and I think it's fair to examine that legacy with a critical eye.

Those are the rules. Steinbrenner did not create them. They were the result of a century-plus of major league baseball developments; including, not least, the Curt Flood decision and the MLBPA (the players' union).

What Steinbrenner did was pure business. He realized that the Yankees were an undervalued asset, purchased them cheaply and leveraged them into a business empire. The championships were merely a means to the end of reviving the Yankees brand, at which he was eminently successful. You can go into cities anywhere in the USA, and even world-wide, and see people wearing the distinctive NY logo. He has built a huge and extremely lucrative media operation from scratch on top of his team assets. This was all done based on his belief that winning championships was core to the brand revival. He was right.

I guess this means that KC Royals fans might see their team win the World Series once every forty years, rather than once every thirty years, which is an unfortunate side effect. However, I find it difficult to feel sorry for the teams themselves and the owners. These are just rich businessmen who weren't as smart as Steinbrenner.

 

[Gasu E.]

The Patriots are the anomaly because with all the free agency rules, salary cap restrictions, franchise designations and the like, they are the one team that has managed to overcome them and win three Super Bowls in four years. And what separates them from the Cowboys and 49ers of the past is the era of rule changes designed to prevent it from happening due to a teams wealth.

There are a couple of problems with your statement. First, your tense is wrong-- the Patriots are not on a current winning streak as they have not won the Superbowl since 2004. More importantly, though, every full decade since the Superbowl began has had a single top team that dominated at the Patriots level. In the 00's, the Pats won 3 of 4; in the '90's, Dallas did the same; in the '80's SF won 4 of 8; and in the '70's, Pittsburgh won 4 of 6. Obviously at most one team per decade is likely to have this level of success since there are only a limited number of SB titles available per decade. No knowledgable person would deny the Pats were the top team of the '00's but it is stretching it to put them in some different class from the dominant teams of earlier decades.

 

[Tilpots]

There are a couple of problems with your statement. First, your tense is wrong-- the Patriots are not on a current winning streak as they have not won the Superbowl since 2004. More importantly, though, every full decade since the Superbowl began has had a single top team that dominated at the Patriots level. In the 00's, the Pats won 3 of 4; in the '90's, Dallas did the same; in the '80's SF won 4 of 8; and in the '70's, Pittsburgh won 4 of 6. Obviously at most one team per decade is likely to have this level of success since there are only a limited number of SB titles available per decade. No knowledgable person would deny the Pats were the top team of the '00's but it is stretching it to put them in some different class from the dominant teams of earlier decades.

The difference is, as I noted, that the NFL put rules in place to bust the dynasties of the 70's, 80's and 90's. The rules were meant to create parity (got it right this time). Then come the Patriots who, despite the rules meant to level the playing field, go along and become a "dynasty." I'm not sure this puts them in a different class of previous champions, but they certainly didn't simply buy their championships as could be argued with some of those teams you mentioned.

BTW, I'm not a Pats fan. I actually really dislike them, but you have to respect what the team has done knowing the context of the rules they did it in. I'm a Skins fan. We won three titles in 10 years but nobody ever considers us a dynasty. What up wit dat?