Yellow Dog Linux in 2019?

[netsrot39]

Hi community,
I recently got myself the best PowerBook G4 ever, the late 2005 Hi-Res Edition. I already have the early 2005 PB G4 15" and I absolutely love it still to this day. I also bought a 12" PowerBook G4 2 weeks ago (also a 2005 model with the highest specs). On my current (old) PowerBook I have OS X Tiger and OS X Leopard running and for my new arriving PowerBooks I have something different in mind. I thought I'd try linux on these machines and a distro that is similar to Apples OSX. I searched and read on various pages that Yellow Dog Linux is a good option for G4 and G5 Apple computers. However I found out that the latest version is 6.2 which is from June 2009, almost 10 years old ... Does it make sense to install such an old operating system? I mean it's still more recent than Tiger and Leopard.

I haven't worked often with Linux, only with Ubuntu once in a while and that was quite a while ago. If I install YDL would it still be possible to get new versions of Firefox, VLC, etc.? Or is the distro too old? Also are linux apps "universal", in other words, can those .deb and .rpm files be executed on any architecture or are there limitations? I know these are many questions but I would really appreciate it if somebody could share their experience

Thanks!

 

[nglevin]

Yes, Yellow Dog made sense back when PPC Linux was especially hard to come by. There's been more work for POWER4/POWER9 on Linux since then that you'd probably want something more recent. Besides that, security patches, and just more recent packaged Linux software to begin with.

Even https://www.adelielinux.org would be an improvement over Yellow Dog, which explicitly mentions G3/G4 as one of its supported architectures.

 

[awilfox]

Most binary packages in .deb or .rpm are specific to an architecture – they are for x86, or PPC, or ARM, or MIPS, etc. The only 'universal' packages would be things like Perl scripts or icon sets, which have no compiled code.

I don't think there's anyone maintaining new packages for YDL in 2019.

Thanks for the Adélie shout out. I'm the project lead.

 

[Imixmuan]

State of Linux on PowerPC in 2018:

Debian releases for PowerPC has now moved into ports or community support, ie it's not an official release. That means no official Ubuntu or any flavor of Ubuntu releases in future. I've seen an Ubuntu MATE remix 2017 release for PowerPC running on G5's and beefy Amiga machines. Linux inclined folks here have Lubuntu 16.04 LTS working nicely on lesser hardware than your Powerbook G4. Xapher has ported Wicknix's Arctic Fox to PowerPC, solving at least temporarily the browser headache. Old webkit browsers, no RUST complier for PowerPC means Firefoxs PPC Linux future....spotty. After using Arctic Fox on a Lubuntu install all I can say is thank god for Xapher and Wicknix.

Swamprock has an excellent and detailed how to here on getting Debian (sid) onto a PowerPC mac.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/howto-installing-debian-ports-sid-on-powerpc-g4.2146795/

Adeile Linux and Void Linux are new and exciting PowerPC distros, as is Finefix OS.

https://www.adelielinux.org/

https://fienixppc.blogspot.com/

Fienix has a 32 bit kernel, but standard install is 64 bit and seems to be more designed for G5s. It looks mighty impressive, if you have the hardware.

There is also Gentoo, if you enjoy building your own OS from the ground up and compiling all your own software. Which I do not.

 

[amagichnich]

no RUST complier for PowerPC means Firefoxs PPC Linux future

What about this one? PPC Linux is supported in Tier 2,even with cargo supported

 

[Imixmuan]

I stand corrected. My information came from a blog post by a developer who was frustrated by lack of RUST. My own experience with Firefox beyond 45 on PowerPC Linux has been very frustrating. I was using Midori until Arctic Fox, despite its age it was the best I could find.

 

[pochopsp]

@Imixmuan don't forget about OpenBSD and FreeBSD

 

[timidpimpin]

@Imixmuan don't forget about OpenBSD and FreeBSD

Those are no good to someone who wants Linux. BSD is UNIX, and is a totally different OS.

 

[netsrot39]

Yesterday I tried Lubuntu 16.04 on my PowerBook HiRes but didn't manage to get sound, brightness controls and WiFi working so with these drawbacks I guess I'll stick with Tiger and Leopard for my PowerPC Macs unless there is a Linux where everything works (out of the box preferably ). Also the cursor behaved kind of shaky on Lubuntu and compared to Tiger and Leopard the OS felt kinda slow. So until now it wasn't a joyful experience but I'll keep it installed since it's not even on the internal hard drive but on an external firewire disk. Do you guys have any ideas in order to improve performance? (I will eventually transfer the OS to the internal drive but the mSata SSD has yet to arrive from China ^^)

 

[Dronecatcher]

Yesterday I tried Lubuntu 16.04 on my PowerBook HiRes but didn't manage to get sound, brightness controls and WiFi working

Sound, brightness and wifi are just a few Terminal commands away, however the DLSD touchpad is awful under Linux and Lubuntu will always be slower than OSX.

 

[wicknix]

I actually find Lubuntu to be comparable to leopard in both boot time and application launch. 10.4 blows both away in both categories however. Web browsing I find more enjoyable with Linux, but otherwise you can still do pretty much anything you want regardless of which OS you choose. Both have YouTube ability, both have office suites, both have media player, both have audio creation apps, both have movie/DVD creation software, both can stream audio from pandora, shoutcast, etc. To get the best of both worlds, just dual boot.

Cheers

 

[Macbookprodude]

Most binary packages in .deb or .rpm are specific to an architecture – they are for x86, or PPC, or ARM, or MIPS, etc. The only 'universal' packages would be things like Perl scripts or icon sets, which have no compiled code.

I don't think there's anyone maintaining new packages for YDL in 2019.

Thanks for the Adélie shout out. I'm the project lead.

Hello, will your Linux run on a G5 Quad ?

 

[Dronecatcher]

I actually find Lubuntu to be comparable to leopard in both boot time and application launch.

Is this based on desktop installs? I've only installed Linux on Powerbooks/iBooks - they just don't compare to OSX in terms of speed and efficiency.

 

[nglevin]

Those are no good to someone who wants Linux. BSD is UNIX, and is a totally different OS.

FreeBSD/OpenBSD/NetBSD has generally worse driver support, and a different set of priorities than the Linux kernel. Although you can still find NetBSD on 68k. Linux is generally the better choice for end users.

What is UNIX in 2018 is bit of a broad question considering Leopard was the first Mac OS to be a "certified UNIX". and so has every Intel Mac OS X since then, Mojave and High Sierra are prominently displayed in the official register.

One of FreeBSD's co-founders used to be the lead engineer for Mac OS X's kernel group. One consequence is that the BSD kernels and Mac OS X have very similar methods that can make low level system software fairly easy to port between them. Not so much for Linux.

Perhaps things would have been different if Linus Torvalds was hired by Steve Jobs instead of Jordan Hubbard.

 

[wicknix]

Is this based on desktop installs?

Yeah, on a single core 1.6ghz G5 (wish i had a DC). Didn't think of that. Nothing is really "speedy" about my G4 mini, except maybe MorphOS or MacOS9.

Cheers.

 

[awilfox]

Hello, will your Linux run on a G5 Quad ?

Sure will. I'm running it on an iMac G5, and two DP G5s. One of our contributors has a Quad and it runs fine there, too. We're in the process of adding more useful tidbits. I will note that while we hope to have a user-friendly installer by April or May, right now it is a "manual" installation, like Arch or Gentoo (but without compiling anything).
[doublepost=1547512244][/doublepost]

Is this based on desktop installs? I've only installed Linux on Powerbooks/iBooks - they just don't compare to OSX in terms of speed and efficiency.

Ubuntu is not optimised for laptop usage even on x86; it doesn't surprise me that it doesn't work well on laptops. Personally, I've only ever run Debian, Gentoo, and our own Adélie on *Books. I've never had any speed issues on any of the three. Maybe it is specific to Ubuntu.

As for efficiency, I bought one of the NewerTech batteries for my iBook G3 right before they discontinued them. It gives me about 5.5 hours runtime under OS 9, 7.5 hours under Adélie, and 8 hours under Tiger. So, it isn't quite as good, but it isn't quite so bad either. I'm still working hard on trying to get better battery life on G4s. Someone else on MacRumors told me that system CPU% is high on some models of PowerBook, and I was able to reproduce it on mine, so that's definitely on the to-do list as well.

 

[Dronecatcher]

Ubuntu is not optimised for laptop usage even on x86; it doesn't surprise me that it doesn't work well on laptops. Personally, I've only ever run Debian, Gentoo, and our own Adélie on *Books. I've never had any speed issues on any of the three. Maybe it is specific to Ubuntu.

I've run various Ubuntu derivatives on X86 laptops and they've always been a good fit.

I think the division between PPC portables and desktops under Linux is more to do with G4/G5 differences - I suspect 64bit Linux enjoys more optimisations on the G5 than 32bit?

My experience on Powerbooks has been with Debian and Lubuntu. Debian was teamed with Openbox and a very minimal install on a DLSD but the touchpad response was awful (a known issue) - I couldn't get 720P playback under MPlayer either and although the OS felt as fast as OSX, CPU use for everything was higher - I'm not keen on using a quarter of the CPUs resources just to play a MP3.

I've also had Debian on a 667Mhz TiBook - from memory, that was quite good - seemed to 'fit' the older hardware more sympathetically, on a later 1.25Ghz model, again not as happy.

Lubuntu on the DLSD has the same touchpad issues and CPU overuse - more so on my 12" model - touchpad fine but CPU being overworked and therefore constant fan noise.

I will always be happy to be proved wrong but until I see some side by side comparisons/benchmarks of Linux against OSX (and I'm hopeful about these new Linux flavours), I will be of the opinion that the existing OS is the best fit - especially with all the work done by the community in recent years to squeeze out every last bit of utility from Tiger and Leopard.

 

[timidpimpin]

IMHO Debian is the best Linux for laptops. No matter the architecture.

 

[wicknix]

I suspect 64bit Linux enjoys more optimisations on the G5 than 32bit?

Entirely possible. Lubuntu on my G5 does use a 64bit kernel, but it still uses a 32bit userland. With that said, the heart and sole of the OS is the kernel, so yes, maybe the G5's 64bit kernel is better optimized. As i mentioned before in another thread i didn't think there would be a huge difference between a 1.5ghz G4 and a 1.6ghz G5 (other than ram), but i was wrong. Lubuntu is much quicker all around on the G5 than on the G4.

Cheers
[doublepost=1547599514][/doublepost]

I will be of the opinion that the existing OS is the best fit - especially with all the work done by the community in recent years to squeeze out every last bit of utility from Tiger and Leopard.

Can't argue with that either. (Unless you want security updates and newer software. That's where Linux shines vs 10.4/10.5)

 

[timidpimpin]

FreeBSD/OpenBSD/NetBSD has generally worse driver support, and a different set of priorities than the Linux kernel. Although you can still find NetBSD on 68k. Linux is generally the better choice for end users.

What is UNIX in 2018 is bit of a broad question considering Leopard was the first Mac OS to be a "certified UNIX". and so has every Intel Mac OS X since then, Mojave and High Sierra are prominently displayed in the official register.

One of FreeBSD's co-founders used to be the lead engineer for Mac OS X's kernel group. One consequence is that the BSD kernels and Mac OS X have very similar methods that can make low level system software fairly easy to port between them. Not so much for Linux.

Perhaps things would have been different if Linus Torvalds was hired by Steve Jobs instead of Jordan Hubbard.

I'm not sure what my post tells you that you thought I needed all that explained to me. I wasn't asking a question or showing a lack of knowledge. I have little to no BSD or UNIX experience, but I do understand that it exists in its own universe that is separate from Linux. Linux was created to divert from UNIX. They are not the same OS at all... but so many lump them together out of ignorance.

My point was simply that BSD is useless to someone who wants Linux... which it is. That's a fact. Not an opinion.

 

[nglevin]

I thought it would be interesting for others to know the differences. I’ve done a little work on developing kexts for both, the differences are interesting and entertaining, especially since it’s easy even for developers who live in Linux to assume that all operating systems built with a very GNU toolchain are similar.

There is a bit much unneccessary fire around these parts though. I might not be helping.

As I do not understand some of the responses I get here, it is probably a sign that I should be moving on.

 

[Dronecatcher]

As I do not understand some of the responses I get here, it is probably a sign that I should be moving on.

Try to stick with it - it's too easy to get misunderstood but collectively this forum is a great bunch of people and the best source of PowerPC info on the web.

 

[dbdjre0143]

I thought it would be interesting for others to know the differences. I’ve done a little work on developing kexts for both, the differences are interesting and entertaining, especially since it’s easy even for developers who live in Linux to assume that all operating systems built with a very GNU toolchain are similar.

There is a bit much unneccessary fire around these parts though. I might not be helping.

As I do not understand some of the responses I get here, it is probably a sign that I should be moving on.

For what its worth, I'm a software engineer working usually in OSX and Linux, and I'm not fully aware of the differences between Unix, BSD, Linux, etc. (other than to blanket, say "they're different"), so I found your comment both informative and interesting.

Yes, there has been some unnecessary fire in this subforum as of late, but please don't let it run you off. There are plenty of people who are happy to learn from and discourse with a fellow enjoyer of old Macs.

 

[timidpimpin]

I thought it would be interesting for others to know the differences. I’ve done a little work on developing kexts for both, the differences are interesting and entertaining, especially since it’s easy even for developers who live in Linux to assume that all operating systems built with a very GNU toolchain are similar.

There is a bit much unneccessary fire around these parts though. I might not be helping.

As I do not understand some of the responses I get here, it is probably a sign that I should be moving on.

There's no issue on my end. I was simply confused as to why you were explaining all that to me like I was 6. And if those statements were directed at everyone, then you might not want to do it in a post where you quote me.

It's great to be helpful, but help isn't always needed. If there is no context for the help it will seem off. Hence this situation. Also... this isn't a thread about the differences between UNIX and Linux. I only brought up BSD because someone else mentioned it in the same context as Linux.

Anyway... it's all good. Just remember... context!